Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[time]

I am not saying this is the same as Roma children, just showing one example of how child begging is seen around the world from those who have looked more in depth at it. I don't think we can just say it it not abusive.

Senegal: Protect Children from Forced Begging

As documented in reports by Anti-Slavery International and Human Rights Watch, an estimated 50,000 talibés, most between the ages of 5 and 14, are forced by their marabout to beg in the streets for up to eight hours a day. Many of these exploitative marabouts impose a specific quota that the boys must return each day. Boys who fail to bring back the demanded sum often face physical abuse, including in some cases severe beatings or being chained or bound and left in isolation. Much of the money these boys bring back goes to the personal profit of their marabout, rather than to ensuring adequate food and health care, and a proper Islamic education for the children.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/03/31/senegal-protect-children-forced-begging

I would also like to add that if there is huge reason to have children beg (profitable) then it is more likely to create more trafficking, e.g., getting more children to use that way.

 

[gxm]

The first principle of human rights is to recognize your own ethnocentrism
(we all have it) and disengage it when deciding the rights of the rest of the world.

mjak

OGMAB and go talk to the UN who lists the absolute minimum age a child should perform "light labor" as 13 to 15 years old.

Children between the ages of 13 and 15 years old may do light work, as long as it does not threaten their health and safety, or hinder their education or vocational orientation and training.

These people have had little M**** dance and beg for money since she was just a toddler. It's despicable and the only ethnocentrism is those people who use it to justify child neglect and abuse.

 

[Hexe]

Nikola Sieczka (the only one I think might be vaguely possible)

Nikola Sieczka is too young. She vanished almost exactly three years ago, October 25, 2010 and was six months old at the time. Now she would be like three and a half, Maria though is five or six. Cannot be her.

 

[SweetT]

I know when my oldest daughter first moved to Costa Rica, she was really bothered by the amount of children begging in the streets for their parents. She said she started looking carefully and discovered that these children would a lot of times have computer print out sheets to hand to the "Tourists" trying to get them to give money etc. Then another time she noticed they were wearing tattered clothes and shoes and saw that they had hidden their nice shoes near by. There, this is common but obviously it is part of the culture. They also have legalized prostitution and sometimes the families of these women who prostitute actually spend thousands of dollars to fancy their daughters up and sell them to "tourists".
We as Americans cannot understand this and see it as so wrong, but there it is just Normal. Yes in America people would be arrested for this stuff, but not there. These people do not think they are being abusive etc, it is just the way they have been raised and it is accepted. I wish that no one would have to live like this, but I also understand when in Rome, you do as the Romans do and that we in America have no clue as to how some of these people in other countries are raised and what is acceptable etc. I try to not judge others as I have not lived in their country or walked in their shoes.

 

[Cappuccino]

Emily Koyama (I know her dad; it's obviously not her), Gabriela Franco (eye color wrong), Gabrielle Dahm (also not her), Nikola Sieczka (the only one I think might be vaguely possible), and that French girl whose mom and stepdad confessed to killing that I can't remember the name of.

This is a long shot but I'm going to suggest it anyway - that French girls parents confessed to killing and burying her but were never able to lead the police to a body. Any chance that was a false confession?

It can happen - remember Riley Fox's father confessed too. If it wasn't for the parents confession, could Maria be the French girl?

 

[Linda7NJ]

OGMAB and go talk to the UN who lists the absolute minimum age a child should perform "light labor" as 13 to 15 years old.

Children between the ages of 13 and 15 years old may do light work, as long as it does not threaten their health and safety, or hinder their education or vocational orientation and training.

These people have had little M**** dance and beg for money since she was just a toddler. It's despicable and the only ethnocentrism is those people who use it to justify child neglect and abuse.

Unless ...it's here in the USA and the children are working on a family farm, or child actors.....

Then... It's perfectly acceptable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[windstorm]

This is a long shot but I'm going to suggest it anyway - that French girls parents confessed to killing and burying her but were never able to lead the police to a body. Any chance that was a false confession?

It can happen - remember Riley Fox's father confessed too. If it wasn't for the parents confession, could Maria be the French girl?

Her name is Fiona Chafoulais. Wonder if we could do the eye thing with her that was done upthread with Lisa Irwin?

 

[windstorm]

Her name is Fiona Chafoulais. Wonder if we could do the eye thing with her that was done upthread with Lisa Irwin?

She's been missing since May 2013 and the "parents" of "Maria" have video of her from 2 years ago, so it can't be Fiona.

 

[dotr]

http://world.time.com/2013/10/23/europes-roma-face-witch-hunt-after-reports-of-child-snatching/
bbm.
"Some have voiced concerns over the way both stories, which have attracted significant global attention, have been reported in the media. Ethel Brooks, an expert on Roma and associate professor in women’s and gender studies at Rutgers University, says the full spectrum of coverage of Maria’s case from the BBC to tabloid newspapers like the Daily Mail have “all contributed to the sensationalism” and vilification of the Roma. She points to the way newspapers have published images of the girl’s muddy face, with suggestions that the girl had been mistreated as examples of this sensationalism. Brooks explains that these are all rooted in the centuries old stereotype of Roma as child-snatchers. This stems from a long-held idea that Roma, who tend to be darker-skinned than many Europeans, cannot have blonde-haired or blue-eyed children, says Brooks".

Read more: http://world.time.com/2013/10/23/eu...ter-reports-of-child-snatching/#ixzz2iYwj9HBb

 

[Cappuccino]

She's been missing since May 2013 and the "parents" of "Maria" have video of her from 2 years ago, so it can't be Fiona.

Okay, thanks. I knew it was a long shot when I posted it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/8stagesofgenocide.html

Worth the read


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[dotr]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...acism-the-blonde-maria-and-the-dark-roma.html

"Not since Fay Wray found herself in the meaty, black clutches of King Kong has a blonde in the custody of dark beings ignited the global imagination as has Maria, a tow-headed tot who was discovered in Greece three days ago, living in the midst of a Roma (or gypsy) family. As Greek police searched the family’s squalid home in pursuit of an unrelated criminal matter, they found Maria, flaxen-haired as the refulgent sun, underweight, unwashed, and so unconvincing as a gypsy child (for let it be noted, again: she was very blonde) that they switched their investigation instantly to one of the child and her origins. Who was she? How could she, so blonde, be living with these swarthy people? Something had to be very wrong: and very dark."


>>Snip>>



" A very dark-skinned kid in the keep of blonde people is part of the natural order, proof, in fact, of benevolence, of the bigheartedness of the adoption process. But the converse—as is Maria’s case—is not merely fishy, it is almost inconceivable. What is wrong with this picture? Everything."

 

[gxm]

Unless ...it's here in the USA and the children are working on a family farm, or child actors.....

Then... It's perfectly acceptable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

No. It's not perfectly acceptable in the USA to purchase (or barter) children. Funny how some folks keep skipping over that fact in their rush to defend a "culture." Further, we have no idea where M**** came from so we really have no idea if she has been raised in her native culture or not.

The UN guidelines for child labor were listed in my previous comment: as long as it does not threaten their health and safety, or hinder their education or vocational orientation and training

 

[mjak]

OGMAB and go talk to the UN who lists the absolute minimum age a child should perform "light labor" as 13 to 15 years old.

Children between the ages of 13 and 15 years old may do light work, as long as it does not threaten their health and safety, or hinder their education or vocational orientation and training.

These people have had little M**** dance and beg for money since she was just a toddler. It's despicable and the only ethnocentrism is those people who use it to justify child neglect and abuse.

What does OGMAB mean? The guidelines by the UN make perfect sense. I am not saying a young child begging in the street is an okay thing. It is just that you can't crucify a community as a means to address behaviors that are part of there norm. It is not about approval of Maria dancing for money in the streets at the age of 4 but recognizing it as a cultural norm which is better addressed through postive influx of resources and education that punishment and admonsihment. IMO.

 

[time]

Unless ...it's here in the USA and the children are working on a family farm, or child actors.....

Then... It's perfectly acceptable

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Do you know any farm families?

I come from a long line of farmers. It was acceptable (when my dad grew up) to make the children work hard and long hours as you say. Just like it was acceptable to make them work in factories. I believe my dad and his brothers' childhoods were pretty harsh, too harsh. My mom, who grew up on a farm also, did not experience the same thing (nor did her brother or sisters). While kids still do some work on the farm now, I do not believe it is of the forced/hard labor type, but more like some chores when they are younger than adolescents. I don't think farmers nor the general population thinks it's acceptable to make a kid work from sun up to sun down.

 

[Linda7NJ]

No. It's not perfectly acceptable in the USA to purchase (or barter) children. Funny how some folks keep skipping over that fact in their rush to defend a "culture." Further, we have no idea where M**** came from so we really have no idea if she has been raised in her native culture or not.

The UN guidelines for child labor were listed in my previous comment: as long as it does not threaten their health and safety, or hinder their education or vocational orientation and training

Please provide a link to the fact that this child was purchased or bartered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[gxm]

What does OGMAB mean? The guidelines by the UN make perfect sense. I am not saying a young child begging in the street is an okay thing. It is just that you can't crucify a community as a means to address behaviors that are part of there norm. It is not about approval of Maria dancing for money in the streets at the age of 4 but recognizing it as a cultural norm which is better addressed through postive influx of resources and education that punishment and admonsihment. IMO.

Oh Give Me A Break.

Personally, I don't care about the Roma community. Sorry, but I care about the children. The adults who barter and/or sell them can go take a flying leap … and hopefully land in jail. It is unbelievable to me that some folks have made this story out to be about discrimination of the Roma culture when it's really a case of the buying/bartering of children which IMO is a human rights issue and an atrocity which pretty much any human rights organization will condemn. Children's rights isn't an ethnocentric idea, it's a global idea.

 

[gxm]

Please provide a link to the fact that this child was purchased or bartered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

'I told my wife I never wanted Maria in my home, it was like having a bomb in the house', says gipsy father as it's revealed mystery child may have been bought for just £850

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-Mystery-child-bought-850.html#ixzz2iZ1fZt86
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

It's one of the many stories being spun by the couple. This story apparently came from the "father."

 

[Kimster]

REMINDER:

Please stay on topic in regards to discussing the search for this little girl's family. Cultural discussions belong in the Jury Room.

:tyou:

 

[mjak]

Oh Give Me A Break.

Personally, I don't care about the Roma community. Sorry, but I care about the children. The adults who barter and/or sell them can got take a flying leap … and hopefully land in jail. It is unbelievable to me that some folks have made this story out to be about discrimination of the Roma culture when it's really a case of the buying/bartering of children which IMO is a human rights issue and an atrocity which pretty much any human rights organization will condemn. Children's rights isn't an ethnocentric idea, it's a global idea.

Sorry, you can not disengage cultural, social, educational and various other parameters from the equation if you want to care about children. It is like a patient waking into a new doctors office and not providing a history, a dangerous practice that leeds to bad outcomes. IMO.

mjak