Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[Irish_Eyes]

I think they are suggesting that her hair is dyed in this video and it grew out leaving her natural blonde roots as seen in the recent photos.

 

[squish]

About the hair dye - that's what I thought when I saw the picture of her with her plaited pigtails, that the pigtails look brown and her roots look blonde. They've tried to make her look more like one of them.

 

[gitana1]

No. She looks like your stereotypical Russian/Ukrainian kid. My guess is that she is from somewhere in that part of the world.

With all these kids that, from the sounds of it, are passing through this couple's community, my guess is that there is some human trafficking going on and she is being traded, on the adoption black market. Trafficking is quite common in the former Soviet Union countries.

The scenario would be to kidnap them when very young, ship them off to some other country and hold them until they have forgotten their old life. Then sell them for adoption to places that prize blue eyed blonde kids, such as the US.

She has a very Eastern European cast to me too. But I don't think these people are involved in black market adoptions. The child has been with them for years.

I'm feeling cynical. Am I the only one bothered by the fact she seems to be the only one featured in the media when there seems to be six kids in question?

The rest of the kids are likely Gypsy kids. Which means the authorities don't care much about their fate. Just look at all the headlines or descriptions about this child: "Blonde angel", or a cute blonde girl will get more money begging. Few care about the fate of trafficked Gypsy kids.

And to be fair, without rigorous intervention, many of those kids will end up back on the street, begging and stealing. These are probably Romanian Gypsies, some of the most marginalized on earth, with a historic, solid bar to joining the larger society around them. So for some, this is the way of life they know, it is how they adapted to never being able to have a job in society. For these particular Roma, it is the only way they know how to survive.

What's troubling is that it appears this clan has graduated to more serious criminal activity- drug, gun and sex trades. This is highly unusual. First, it involves much more interaction with Gadjoes, which they do not like, as the culture has evolved, due to two thousand years of repression, into one that has an ingrained distrust of outsiders. Second, it involves crimes carrying more severe repercussions, socially and legally, which, believe it or not, is very atypical. Gypsies do not engage in murder, rape, violent assaults, or kidnapping, involving outsiders, for example. Any criminal activity like that among themselves is dealt with internally, via the Kris, a Romani legal tribunal.

This is very odd. And very sad for the other kids who are undoubtedly related to the couple. They will not be able to escape this childhood. Or lack thereof. But it is what they know and these kids have no clue that they are being deprived.

I want to add a couple more things about Gypsy crime, which is what my research and journal articles were about. One, they do not engage in prostitution themselves or selling children for sex purposes. Any that did would likely be killed. It may seem incongruous to many, based especially in the fact that all the public really knows about Gypsies is from groups like this, and negative oteayals in film. But virtue is seriously important and to have sex outside marriage or to become sexually involved with an outsider, is considered "Mahrime," (mah ree may), a term similar to Jewish "unkosher" or Islamic "haram."

Also, children in general are very prized, doted on, (even in the worst groups at least until "working" age of about 7 or 8), and family is everything. Without family, you just die. There is no reason to live.

In my own family, my dad and all my direct aunts and uncles, except one, married non-Gypsies. Now our family are Gypsies vastly different from these. Our kind engaged in Flamenco and horse trading, historically, to survive. And, based on a couple hundred years of remaining stationary, our language has changed. True Spanish Gypsies do not speak Romani. They speak Caló, which is a dialect using the Spanish verb form with Spanish and Romani words, so outsiders won't understand.

In any event, the result of the separation in language and lifestyle from other Roma around the world has resulted in more interaction with non-Gypsies, more integration with the larger world and more mainstream sophistication. That means more intermarriages with non-Gypsies. But even so, in my family, many of the relations, which are vast, refused to accept my mom as family. (My dad was the first to be married, as the oldest).

Also, although I have only one first cousin who had a seriously, traditional Gypsy wedding, (where the father tears his shirt and her virginity is celebrated), when I was a young adult living with the family one year, man, the first private question evey aunt had for me was whether I was a virgin or not. It was so important.

I remember one night, coming home at 4:00 am. Those who know Spain know that is not unusual at all. The clubs stay open until 6:00 am. And my dad had sent a young, Spanish expatriate who was visiting family, to pick me up and introduce me to his group of friends, including some American exchange students. So I was having a ball and just being a regular Spanish girl like everyone else. And I had stayed out that late before but until then I was always with family. Well, this time, when I got home, my aunt who was angrily waiting up for me, told me only wh*res stay out until 4:00 in the morning. I didn't hang out with anyone who wasn't family, after that!

I hope I'm not going too off topic! I just wanted to provide some personal background that backs up my research about Gypsy moral codes and criminality. They aren't going to prostitute themselves or sell any child for sex.

Oh, one other thing. I keep hearing about Gypsies selling their daughters. They pay "dowries", a tradition that has lasted since their roots in India, two thousand years ago. Also, unlike many Muslim or Arabic socities, or the FLDS, while girls marry quite young- 13 to 17 is average among groups like this one- they are not marrying old men. They typically marry other kids their own age, who they were promised to years before. Marriages are arranged in most societies, like in India. Not so much anymore in the group I come from. People marry for love. But there are remnants in attitudes. Relatives try to matchmaker like crazy.

Gitana, I should have been more clear. It was group of women in Granada, Spain who were immigrants from North Africa & South Asia who asked to touch my hair and face. I assumed they wanted touch my face because of my fair skin, but who knows. They told me they'd never touched blonde hair before. Near the cathedral one night a group of boys (maybe around 8-9 years old) followed my friend and me and kept calling "Rubia, rubia" (blonde, blonde). I saw a few other blondes in Granada, but most had darker skin than me (I'm VERY fair, though, so almost everyone has darker skin than me) and at this time my hair was very long, straightened, and very white-blonde (a la Britney Spears in the "Britney"/"In the Zone" era - it was the "look" then, or so I thought). I don't remember seeing any other women while I was there whose hair was as white-blonde as mine at the time.
Eventually my friend and I stopped and the boys told me I looked like "la muñeca Barbie" and then asked for money (I laughed because Barbie is tan, way thinner, and well, has better endowments, if you will), so perhaps this was all a ploy for money, since it was flattering. Southern Spain is one of my favorite places in the world and I'm jealous that you have familial connections there!

Sorry for going off topic.

I can't get over how much this girl looks like she could be a member of my Polish-Ukrainian family. She and I even have eyes that look green in some light/to some people and blue in some light/to some people (I've solved this by saying I have "blue-green" eyes). I hope her real family is found soon and if not, I hope she is placed with a family that treats her like an absolute princess.

That makes more sense! And, Btw, those were undoubtedly Gitano kids following you around! A funny thing about Gypsy culture and Andalusian culture in general, which has been heavily influenced by it (although this is somewhat typical of Hispanic culture overall), is how un-PC they are. People are given nicknames that relate to whàtever is unique about them. For example, I have several cousins called "Gordo", one female cousin called "Gordota" (fatty), my aunt, who was fair haired, is called Rubia (blondy), and I know many people called things like "Juan el enano" (Juan the dwarf).

If you had atypical white-blonde hair, oh that would become your identity for life, even if it darkened or you later dyed it!

 

[Tugela]

The charity has also compiled a "profile" of pictures of lookalike children. "We've put together a montage with Maria at the centre that we have passed to the police," he said. "There seems to be a lot of hope in the Swedish press that she is Scandinavian."

Little know fact: the Vikings used to control a trading route down from Scandinavia through eastern Europe in what is now Russia/Ukraine to the Byzantine empire. The Viking tribe that controlled the area were called the Rus, and that is the origin of name Russia.

That is why these depigmented features normally associated with northern peoples are found so commonly in Eastern Europe. Their ancestors were in part Viking. The fact that she looks that way does not imply that she actually came from Scandinavia herself.

 

[hogwash]

I think she looks like lisa irwin ?

I was thinking maybe Lisa, But to me she is a dead ringer for Autumn Matlock who went missing in 2012 at the age of 2 going on 3.there is something about both of their eyes that look very much alike

 

[jjenny]

Whether they are marrying old men or not, arranging marriage for a 13 year old (like shown in a documentary) would be a crime in a country like US.
Where 13 is below the age of consent in every state (I believe).

 

[jjenny]

I was thinking maybe Lisa, But to me she is a dead ringer for Autumn Matlock who went missing in 2012 at the age of 2 going on 3.there is something about both of their eyes that look very much alike

Chances that this child is from US are slim to none.

 

[momtective]

http://news.sky.com/story/1156981/mystery-blonde-girl-eight-promising-leads

Fingers crossed

I'm wondering if this might be one of the promising leads. I'm also wondering who the 4 from the US are...my guess, Lisa Erwin, and Alya Reynolds. But who are the other two?

NIKOLA SIECZKA
Case Type: Missing DOB: May 1, 2010
Missing Date: Oct 25, 2010 Sex: Female
Age Now: 3 Height: Unknown
Missing City: SIEDLCE Weight: Unknown
Missing State : MAOWIECKIE Hair Color: Blonde
Missing Country: Poland Eye Color: Blue
Case Number: ITAK023
Circumstances: She was taken from her home in October 2010 and hasn't been seen since.
http://www.vermistekinderen.nl/miss...ITAK&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_NL

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I'm feeling cynical. Am I the only one bothered by the fact she seems to be the only one featured in the media when there seems to be six kids in question?

I don't think all the DNA tests are in yet. Just like with Maria they will wait for those first.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I'm wondering if either of these might be one of the promising leads. I'm also wondering who the 4 from the US are...my guess, Lisa Erwin, and Alya Reynolds. But who are the other two?

KIRIAN BOSMA
Case Type: Lost, Injured, Missing DOB: Mar 16, 2010
Missing Date: May 4, 2012 Sex: Male
Age Now: 3 Height: Unknown
Missing City: HILVERSUM Weight: Unknown
Missing State : Hair Color: Blonde
Missing Country: Netherlands Eye Color: Blue
Case Number: NLZO13031231
Circumstances: Kirian Bosma has been taken by his mother without the consent of his father.They probably travel through the Oekraine, France and Germany.

http://www.vermistekinderen.nl/miss...NLZO&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_NL

NIKOLA SIECZKA
Case Type: Missing DOB: May 1, 2010
Missing Date: Oct 25, 2010 Sex: Female
Age Now: 3 Height: Unknown
Missing City: SIEDLCE Weight: Unknown
Missing State : MAOWIECKIE Hair Color: Blonde
Missing Country: Poland Eye Color: Blue
Case Number: ITAK023
Circumstances: She was taken from her home in October 2010 and hasn't been seen since.
http://www.vermistekinderen.nl/miss...ITAK&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_NL

Not Kirian who is a male child.

 

[hogwash]

Chances that this child is from US are slim to none.

not being snippy but she has as much chance of being from the US as any other place..jmo

 

[gitana1]

What does ITA mean?

I totally agree.

 

[momtective]

Not Kirian who is a male child.

Well that certainly rules that one out, doesn't it. :doh:

 

[gxm]

Its very unlikely! Although, there is a woman in my area who had three babies in ten months! She had a baby and then got pregnant again with twins when her first baby was about two months old. The twins were born a little bit early. They are all in the same class at school!

This woman would have to have had two sets of triplets or twins then quads or something. Its not impossible, but the chances are tiny.

Regardless of whether there is the tiniest chance she had six children in ten months, the authorities need to test all six children and find out which ones, if any, belong to the "parents."

 

[Suspicious-Minds]

Her pictures are heartbreaking. It's good that they have that video, to compare her at her younger age to missing children. I'm wondering if someone just gave her away or sold her to them though, without ever introducing a "Missing Child" case? In which case, they might never find out who she is.

Not important, but I think her hair was probably cut, to cut off the dark color that was growing out.

 

[jjenny]

not being snippy but she has as much chance of being from the US as any other place..jmo

I don't think that gypsies flew over to US, kidnapped a child and then flew back to Europe.

 

[gxm]

This little girl is not a happy child. She doesn't smile in any pictures. Her eyes are so sad. I just can't believe she was treated well, "doted" on, or dearly loved. I've seen poor children who were happy kids who didn't even realize they were "underprivileged." This child's sadness goes well beyond the poverty she was raised in. Just heartbreaking.

 

[jjenny]

This little girl is not a happy child. She doesn't smile in any pictures. Her eyes are so sad. I just can't believe she was treated well, "doted" on, or dearly loved. I've seen poor children who were happy kids who didn't even realize they were "underprivileged." This child's sadness goes well beyond the poverty she was raised in. Just heartbreaking.

Well if she is taught to beg, then I imagine they didn't want her to look happy.

 

[YidArmyRach]

About the hair dye - that's what I thought when I saw the picture of her with her plaited pigtails, that the pigtails look brown and her roots look blonde. They've tried to make her look more like one of them.

What would be the point of kidnapping a blond girl, then making her look like one of them?

I thought the suggestion was that blond girls are kidnapped in order to earn money begging, as blond children are so unusual in that region, so bring in more money. Surely hiding her blond hair would make the kidnapping of her pointless.

If her hair was dyed to disguise her, then I don't think she was kidnapped specifically for being fair haired.... if she was kidnapped at all.

 

[song22]

Wow! Thank you Gitana! That was a lot of great information.

This case is so fascinating. I sure hope that there are some clear answers soon for this little girl and for the other children, too. I do think that it's interesting to see how the whole thing is spun in the media with the "blonde angel". it really does illustrate the power of being white/western. it is just assumed that she must be from the west, when she could be a child of local poverty just like the other darker kids. there are poor blonde gypsies and poor blonde Eastern Europeans/Balkans.

I knew about the importance placed on virtue with the Roma. but I am surprised to hear that there isn't a problem with sex trafficking. But what about trafficking outsiders? Wouldn't that be different because thee are such strong negative feelings about non-Roma?

I'm have to confess that I pride myself on being very tolerant and sensitive of diversity, but it's been harder for me with the Roma. I appreciate all of your insight as it stretches my thinking a bit more.