Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #2

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As a brown woman who is raising a blonde, blue eyed baby granddaughter, this story hit me right in the heart.

I certainly hope that this little one is returned to her people. No matter what color we are.... our people are our people.
 
The following from the article you posted boggles my mind.

She claimed she could not bring Maria back with her as the Greek authorities required she pay ‘hundreds of euros’ for a birth certificate for her daughter, which she could not afford.

She said: ‘I gave birth to Maria about four and a half years ago. I can’t remember the exact date.

‘I cared for Maria for seven months but I had to come back to Bulgaria look after my other children.

‘I left my daughter with my room-mate. She is also Roma. When I left Maria I asked the woman to send her to Bulgaria. But she hasn’t. I cannot remember her name, it was four years ago.

‘I missed Maria but I don’t have any money so I did not know what to do. I called the woman several times and I knew she was safe and well. I don’t know why she kept her so long, why they did not send her back to me."


How on earth does a mother not remember the exact date she gave birth to one of her children? Also how does a mother not remember the name of the woman she left her small child with that was supposed to send the child to her after a while?

This whole thing is getting more and more fishy.

MOO

It can be hard to understand out of the cultural context. But Gypsies do not think in a linear fashion, in general. Some tribes/clans are much like people in other areas of the world, and do not keep track of birth dates or age.

Also, kids often go from home to home, family to family, as long as they stay within the tribe, it;s okay to them. Remember, these people are pretty much all interrelated.

For example, in my family, one aunt had to travel to Japan, twice, for 6 month periods to dance. She left her daughter two times, once at age 8 months and one at age 2, and her son, once at age 6 months, with another aunt. The kids grew up calling her "Tata" and "Mama" (which upset their mom a bit) and even after their mom returned, they spent much of their time with their aunt.

A second cousin of mine was sent from the U.S. at age 8 to live with her Gypsy family in Moron for a year. A whole year without seeing her parents.

And my family is not as poor or traditional as these. These people appear to have dozens more kids, their clan is very large and they live in very dire poverty, so there is probably a lot of "adopting out" of bio kids that a person cannot provide for, to another family.

It's really hard to explain the culture but it is an absolute mistake to try to understand them through the narrow prism of one's own culture.

They would think Americans are sadistic abusers for allowing tiny babies and toddlers to sleep alone, in a room by themselves, or to be put on a rigid feeding or sleeping schedule, or yanked from the breast before age 2 or 3. Or to circumcise infant boys. They would find that insane and cruel.

They would find the practice of treating pets better than some humans, as criminal.

That's their prism. This is ours. Neither is "truth". Both are simply perception.
 
The following from the article you posted boggles my mind.

She claimed she could not bring Maria back with her as the Greek authorities required she pay ‘hundreds of euros’ for a birth certificate for her daughter, which she could not afford.

She said: ‘I gave birth to Maria about four and a half years ago. I can’t remember the exact date.

‘I cared for Maria for seven months but I had to come back to Bulgaria look after my other children.

‘I left my daughter with my room-mate. She is also Roma. When I left Maria I asked the woman to send her to Bulgaria. But she hasn’t. I cannot remember her name, it was four years ago.

‘I missed Maria but I don’t have any money so I did not know what to do. I called the woman several times and I knew she was safe and well. I don’t know why she kept her so long, why they did not send her back to me."


How on earth does a mother not remember the exact date she gave birth to one of her children? Also how does a mother not remember the name of the woman she left her small child with that was supposed to send the child to her after a while?

This whole thing is getting more and more fishy.

MOO


If you need a birth certificate to travel with a child to Bulgaria and it costs hundreds of euros that she couldn't afford, how was she expecting for the room mate to send the child to Bulgaria? Was the room mate (who apparently wasn't a good enough friend that she could be expected to remember her name) expected to pay for the birth certificate out of her own pocket?
 
If you need a birth certificate to travel with a child to Bulgaria and it costs hundreds of euros that she couldn't afford, how was she expecting for the room mate to send the child to Bulgaria? Was the room mate (who apparently wasn't a good enough friend that she could be expected to remember her name) expected to pay for the birth certificate out of her own pocket?

We will likely never know the whole truth. As I said before, Gypsies are trained from early childhood not to ever tell the truth to Gadjoes. Evasiveness via several different, but similar stories is a common tactic meant to confuse. One of the reasons is the feeling that anything they do or say may implicate them criminally in something they really have done that is illegal, or will be used against them in order to trap them into something they don't understand, by people who hate them for being Gypsies.
 
We will likely never know the whole truth. As I said before, Gypsies are trained from early childhood not to ever tell the truth to Gadjoes. Evasiveness via several different, but similar stories is a common tactic meant to confuse. One of the reasons is the feeling that anything they do or say may implicate them criminally in something they really have done that is illegal, or will be used against them in order to trap them into something they don't understand, by people who hate them for being Gypsies.

It's very hard for me to understand the logic as it seems like telling lots of stories that can't possibly all be true at the same time just makes people look guiltier and gives everybody more opportunities, not fewer, to implicate them in some wrong doing.
 
If you got to the point that you can't remember your children's names because there are so many of them (like Mr. R quoted in the article above), and you live in one room house with no running water, maybe, just maybe, it's a good idea to stop having them.

From your fingers to God's ears!

You can be poor and not live in filth.
 
You know? This whole case is turning out to be a big mess.

I wish EU would start using their resources on others things than deciding the thickness of spaghetti and curvage of cucumbers and start dealing with real issues in these countries in East and South Europe.

Yes, I know my statement is silly, but you all know what I mean. (The EU laws are no joke though!)
 
I am happy Maria has been identified.

I hope all of this brings more education about birth control, not playing the system, how to be a loving family, educating yourselves and children to end the perpetual cycle, and so much more...It hasn't really caught on the U.S. via trickle down as largely as it should, so maybe more gently aggressive means for all, and I am including what we have been taught here about cultural differences. Much need for education.

I hope Maria can live a happy life and prosper, along with the many others in the same situation.

I hope the countries they are in will help with educating and liberating, if it is helpful. I hope that makes sense.
 
I am happy Maria has been identified.

I hope all of this brings more education about birth control, not playing the system, how to be a loving family, educating yourselves and children to end the perpetual cycle, and so much more...It hasn't really caught on the U.S. via trickle down as largely as it should, so maybe more gently aggressive means for all, and I am including what we have been taught here about cultural differences. Much need for education.

I hope Maria can live a happy life and prosper, along with the many others in the same situation.

I hope the countries they are in will help with educating and liberating, if it is helpful. I hope that makes sense.

That made sense to me, merci !
 
The Albino mom has brown eyes. Can a brown eyed albino and a brown eyed man produce a blue eyed baby? I'm not convinced that that the little blonde boy who looks like Maria and Maria herself are albino.

Yes, two brown eyed people can produce a blue eyed child. It's happens, even to people who are not albino.
 
Unbelievable that the removal of little "Maria" started because of the way she looks. Blond, bright eyed, fair skin. So it was believed she could not be the child of a Roma family and in the end they were wrong, very wrong.

I hope they feel stupid for taking an albino child out of the only home and family she knows just because they thought her features were that of another ethnicity.
 
Just wondering if anyone has been to the poorest rural communities in Appalachia? Or been to the ghettos and slums that are in every American city? Or are they just places where other people live? Or From the view from our living rooms on our flat screen tvs or computers?

I haven't mentioned this on WS, but I am a veteran Head Start teacher.

If you think kids don't live like this in the USA, find your local Head Start grantee and volunteer in a classroom or the office. Kids live like this within a few miles of your home.

You need the education, and the kids and the program need you.

Yes, these conditions exist in most counties in the US.

Laughing
 
Just wondering if anyone has been to the poorest rural communities in Appalachia? Or been to the ghettos and slums that are in every American city? Or are they just places where other people live? Or From the view from our living rooms on our flat screen tvs or computers?

Seems to me many people never leave their comfort zone and are clearly disinterested in what's going on anywhere outside of it.

I like to call it "ostrich syndrome" .... Well... Not really ....I have another name for it, I just can't use it here:)


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They would think Americans are sadistic abusers for allowing tiny babies and toddlers to sleep alone, in a room by themselves, or to be put on a rigid feeding or sleeping schedule, or yanked from the breast before age 2 or 3. Or to circumcise infant boys. They would find that insane and cruel.

I've read that Islam is one of the common religions among Roma. Now I think that the Koran doesn't actually mention circumcision, but I'm pretty sure it's in a widely accepted text about laws governing hygiene, etc. Do Roma practicing Islam routinely forgo circumcision?
 
Unbelievable that the removal of little "Maria" started because of the way she looks. Blond, bright eyed, fair skin. So it was believed she could not be the child of a Roma family and in the end they were wrong, very wrong.

I hope they feel stupid for taking an albino child out of the only home and family she knows just because they thought her features were that of another ethnicity.

They thought she wasn't related to people who were claiming to be her bio parents. They were correct on that.
 
Yes, two brown eyed people can produce a blue eyed child. It's happens, even to people who are not albino.

Absolutely. I mentioned on another thread,My sister had black hair and brown eyes, her husband dark brown hair and brown eyes. They had two blue eyed blond children that looked nothing like them, but the kids looked just alike. Now my niece at 41 is looking more and more like her mom.
 
If you need a birth certificate to travel with a child to Bulgaria and it costs hundreds of euros that she couldn't afford, how was she expecting for the room mate to send the child to Bulgaria? Was the room mate (who apparently wasn't a good enough friend that she could be expected to remember her name) expected to pay for the birth certificate out of her own pocket?

I am not buying that story at all. She was being investigated for selling the kid.
 
It's posted in an article up thread.

The child cried herself to sleep and doesn't like the food where she is.


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Well if she were to be returned to the bio home, she'd have to sleep on the floor and eat potato soup.
 
Absolutely. I mentioned on another thread,My sister had black hair and brown eyes, her husband dark brown hair and brown eyes. They had two blue eyed blond children that looked nothing like them, but the kids looked just alike. Now my niece at 41 is looking more and more like her mom.

Blue eyes are a recessive trait, which means two people with brown eyes can produce a blue eyed child.
In Maria's case, she is an albino, so both parents have to carry the albino gene (albino is also a recessive trait).
 
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