Gun Control Debate #1

[BayouBelle_LA]

Gun buybacks popular but ineffective, experts say

Buyback campaigns more often than not end up with hunting rifles or old revolvers from someone's attic than with automatic weapons that criminals might use, analysts say.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/12/gun-buybacks-popular-but-ineffective/1829165/

Gun Buyback Programs Tend To Attract Low-Risk Groups

A number of cities have launched gun buyback programs to reduce the number of firearms in circulation, but it may not be very effective in reducing street crime. Host Scott Simon speaks with Santa Fe Sheriff Raymond Rael about his city's program. Simon also speaks with Johns Hopkins associate professor Jon Vernick about the efficacy of such schemes.

SIMON: What do you think the evidence on gun-buyback schemes is? Do they work?

VERNICK: Unfortunately, the evidence isn't very encouraging at all, if one's goal is to reduce rates of street crime.

SIMON: Well, what do they do?

VERNICK: What we've learned is that high-risk people don't tend to participate. The folks who are at highest risk for being either a victim or a perpetrator of gun violence are young males. But disproportionately, the people who participate in these buybacks tend to be older; they tend to be female.

https://www.npr.org/2013/01/12/169209919/gun-buyback-programs-tend-to-attract-low-risk-groups

Success of gun buyback programs is debated

Gun buyback programs have been a staple of urban crime-fighting measures across the country for more than two decades, but a growing body of research has concluded they are ineffective, at best. A 2003 study of buyback programs nationwide by Anthony Braga, a crime specialist who is now a professor at Rutgers University, found that the programs had no impact on gun crime or gun-related injuries, and that the programs do not target guns highly likely to be used in violence.

The programs have nonetheless remained popular, particularly in times of crisis. After the December 2012 massacre of 26 people — 20 of them young children — at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., many cities have been stepping up buyback programs or launching new ones, specialists said.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ram-debated/PsITjPCyPkrG9C7fFr979O/story.html

 

[Inthedetails]

Awesome. I haven't read beyond a quick peek - but wanted to say thanks for the research to find the stats.

Reading the list is numbing, knowing it was young people in school who were killed....but I gasped when I saw the last entry on the list and read the list of weapons. Then I looked at saw it was for Columbine.

Columbine still has an impact.

Okay, that was a bit off-topic, but whew, that's quite a hard list to read.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

I specifically talking about the assault weapons ban. Assault weapons, AR's, assault rifle and hunting rifles are all the same thing basically. The AR is a platform that you can turn basically any rifle into. It just looks meaner as an AR but they are basically the same gun. Some AR clips expand the bullets from 15 to 30 but that's about it. As far as high powered ban, we'll then you get animal rights activist and state game laws involved because killing an animal with a high powered rifle is humane. The pics I showed were of a .22, that is actually illegal to hunt deer with because it isn't strong enough so say the game laws. A.22 can and will kill a person just as quick as other calibers.

This is good - thank you for the info.

I heard that people think AR stands for "assault rifle" when it doesn't really stand for that? What does AR stand for?

 

[kimlynn]

Reading the list is numbing, knowing it was young people in school who were killed....but I gasped when I saw the last entry on the list and read the list of weapons. Then I looked at saw it was for Columbine.

Columbine still has an impact.

Okay, that was a bit off-topic, but whew, that's quite a hard list to read.

jmo

I'm trying to recall if there was an armed teacher or guard at Columbine and if it made a difference.
ETA answered myself. There was an armed security officer and it made zero difference.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html

 

[CoolJ]

Thanks, I knew I would. Don't you think it unreasonable to talk about taking things away from people when you don't even know what they are?

It’s an overused trick used in almost every gun debate I have come across. Obviously most folks who don’t like guns don’t have much knowledge about them. But your post here also includes the biggest misunderstanding of the pro gun folks.....Nobody wants to take your guns away from you. It’s a “gun control” debate, not a “gun confiscation” debate

 

[DAnthrplgst]

That is the rub, it is not a living document that changes with time

That is an opinion, not a fact. Most, if not all, of the rights not enumerated in the Constitution that have been granted through judicial review are because a majority of justices on the Court recognized that the Constitution is a living document not meant to be taken in it's literal written sense. Times change, people change so the law changes (well, provided justice hasn't been perverted by the presence of NRA money cough Neil Gorsuch cough).

 

[RANCH]

We've had gun buy back programs in this country for years. They're legal. I'll get the rest of it for you in the am. For now, I'm going to bed.

The Australian "buy back" wasn't a voluntary one it was mandatory. In other words it was gun confiscation with the government paying for it. I guess with tax payers own money. Ha Ha.

A mandatory gun "buy back" wouldn't work in the US because of the Second Amendment. It's really not that hard to figure out.

 

[TooCurious]

This is good - thank you for the info.

I heard that people think AR stands for "assault rifle" when it doesn't really stand for that? What does AR stand for?

Traditionally it was for a company called Arma lite but it is basically synonymous with assault rifle now.

 

[Inthedetails]

Traditionally it was for a company called Arma lite but it is basically synonymous with assault rifle now.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[TooCurious]

Got it. Thanks.

All the reports and reporters using AR as a term is for assault rifle. Armalite guns are top end guns. It is a lot like Polo shirts, Polo was a brand but then everyone started calling the shirts polo even though they were not made by Ralph

 

[TooCurious]

That is an opinion, not a fact. Most, if not all, of the rights not enumerated in the Constitution that have been granted through judicial review are because a majority of justices on the Court recognized that the Constitution is a living document not meant to be taken in it's literal written sense. Times change, people change so the law changes (well, provided justice hasn't been perverted by the presence of NRA money cough Neil Gorsuch cough).

As your response is an opinion as well.

 

[RANCH]

The only weapons available in the US during the 1930's that I can come up with off the top of my head that had a high capacity magazine, which is commonly considered to be more than 10 rounds, would be the Thompson sub-machine gun(20/30rd), the Browning BAR (20rd) and the Browning Hi-Power(13rd).

The Thompson and BAR were restricted with the National Firearms Act of 1934 because they are capable of full automatic fire. Nothing about their magazines though.


https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/National+Firearms+Act+of+1934

 

[CoolJ]

Which is better than letting a person shoot at will until they tire of it. If the cops come with an active shooter on scene there will be a shootout. Why not take him out earlier with a teacher trained to use weapons and save some kids lives? No one stopped this shooter, he decided to stop shooting.

I understand the argument my friend. And i understand why some may feel that way given the current climate. But it Is not the answer IMO. Not even close. It may lead to even more carnage next time. Logic dictates bullets flying in multiple directions can be more dangerous than one direction. No?

 

[Inthedetails]

Historical facts show that gun confiscation starts with gun control.

I'm well ensconced in an anti-gun community - just about everyone I know in real life is for stronger gun regulations and a few people I know are actively working on it. I can't think of even one person I know who wants to ban all guns. That just isn't the sentiment, not in my observation in real life.

It's been interesting here tonight. I appreciate camaraderie, as much as can be expected on a divisive topic, but now I'm....fftobed:

 

[Tricia]

Alrighty then. Thread will be closing for the night in just a few minutes. Will reopen tomorrow.

 

[RANCH]

Historical facts show that gun confiscation starts with gun control.

The Australian gun "buy back" that people are so in love with is most definitely a gun confiscation program. If you can't tell the government I'm keeping my gun then it's a confiscation program.

If Americans decide we need the same kind of program then the discussion needs to be about repealing the Second Amendment so that a gun "buy back" can at least be attempted.

 

[Inthedetails]

As your response is an opinion as well.

One last question - why do you think the Constitution isn't a document that is changed? It's been changed since the time it was first ratified. Amendments are changes to the Constitution. The 2nd amendment was not part of the original Constitution, but added to it.

Okay now I'm really fftobed:

 

[Spellbound]

Kind of a stretch to say the majority of Americans wanted it.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...anne-feinstein-says-every-national-poll-year/
We combed through 18 polls with questions about assault weapons conducted between Jan. 9 and April 7. Nearly half of them occurred in January, both before and after President Barack Obama released his plan to reduce gun violence.

Here's a quick look at the results: see chart of polls taken

 

[kimlynn]

I'm well ensconced in an anti-gun community - just about everyone I know in real life is for stronger gun regulations and a few people I know are actively working on it. I can't think of even one person I know who wants to ban all guns. That just isn't the sentiment, not in my observation in real life.

It's been interesting here tonight. I appreciate camaraderie, as much as can be expected on a divisive topic, but now I'm....fftobed:

I don't think anyone wants a total ban. I do think some rely more than they should on a gun being used to solve issues.

 

[Tricia]

Closing down for the night.

Please, let's leave the sarcastic remarks off the forum? Come on OK?

Get some rest. You have a lot to debate when you come back

Tricia

PS. I am sleeping in tomorrow. Just FYI