Gun Control Debate #3

[Blef]

Thanks for understanding, blef.
Myself and a few other posters here have made numerous gun reform suggestions that are multi-faceted and broad based. They approach a wide variety of variables that require compromise from all sides to gain the most effectivity.

What I feel causes a shut down in communication is people that approach a complicated issue with an insultingly over-simplified solution, truth be told.

With too many illegal guns on the streets **(the horse has left the barn long ago, iykwim)** in the hands of criminals and mentally unstable, we need a broad-scope type of reform. Multi-faceted. Bi-partisan. Joint.

Totally agree here. There is no simple answer.

 

[human]

Is it fair to overtax someone who's lost thousands of dollars from crop damage from deer? A fence will not keep deer out. If someone has a restraining order against someone would they be exempt from the higher tax? If a person has had more than 3 deer/vehicle collisions would they get a reduction on the tax?

Deer/vehicle collisions? I don’t get it? Revenge shooting?

It is illegal to shoot from a vehicle, isn’t it?

 

[human]

Yes to first question and No to the second one.

Special consumption taxes on alcohol, tobacco products and sugary drinks all fall under the heading of a “sin tax.” We’re guessing that relatively few Americans think of drinking, smoking and consuming soda as really sinful, but these special taxes regulate behavior we find unhealthy or distasteful. Sin taxes are useful sources of revenue for state governments.

https://smartasset.com/taxes/what-is-a-sin-tax

I asked if gas and clothing are sin taxes because it was stated that bullets are sin tax? Why are bullets labeled as sin tax?

I do not look at clothing or gas as a sin. So why are bullets a sin?

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I wonder how many people have actually been or live in the UK that bring this up? I was there for three weeks and there were zero murders in all of England. London is a huge city with a popuation of poverty to extreme wealth and perhaps people from most nations on earth.

I've been to London and all over Europe. My daughter lived in France for a study abroad program. There were police officers or military armed with assault rifles guarding her dorm day and night. I'm sure that was for a legitimate reason.

 

[Blef]

Deer/vehicle collisions? I don’t get it? Revenge shooting?

It is illegal to shoot from a vehicle, isn’t it?

:silly:

I think it was the late, great Robin Williams who said "you have the right to bear arms, and the right to arm bears"

 

[Blef]

I've been to London and all over Europe. My daughter lived in France for a study abroad program. There were police officers or military armed with assault rifles guarding her dorm day and night. I'm sure that was for a legitimate reason.

France is WAAAAAYYYY different to the UK. Only an Armed Response Officer in the UK has a firearm and they are small, special teams called out in an emergency

if it is deemed they are needed. ​

 

[human]

I've been to London and all over Europe. My daughter lived in France for a study abroad program. There were police officers or military armed with assault rifles guarding her dorm day and night. I'm sure that was for a legitimate reason.

Did you notice how easy it was to be in England? I loved it.

Hm. I have several friends who live in France as well as visit relatives who still live in France. My one friends were even there after the massacre by Marseilles. They did not notice anything different.

Your daughter had that protection the whole time? Where was that? I have to ask my French friends if they know about this even if you do not feel comfortable in responding,

The French have local police and the Gendarmes. Not sure if local police are armed?

I have friends in Brittany, Biarritz, Lyons, Marseilles, Paris, and Cassis.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I live in the UK.

I know not to walk down a dark street in the wrong end of town in the middle of the night on my own.
Common sense.
I know not to start arguing with drunk people outside Mcdonalds at closing time.
Common sense.
I know that in certain parts of certain cities that it might be unwise to get into a road rage situation or unnecessary confrontation. Common sense.

I do not have to worry about getting shot while walking down the street. I do not have to worry about my little kiddies getting shot at school. I do not at any time feel so worried about my own safety that I would welcome a gun in my pocket.

For reference I posted some gun stats on the last thread. The US has 5 times the population of the UK, but 1000 times the gun deaths.

I acknowledge that maybe we have more spittings.

 

[kimlynn]

Florida Senate passes,and immediately reverses temporary ban on AR-15

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-senate-passes-immediately-reverses-ar-15-ban-2018-03-03/

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Florida's upper chamber briefly approved a ban on AR-15-style rifles before immediately reversing that move Saturday. The Florida state Senate approved a two-year moratorium on the sale, delivery and transfer of AR-15-style rifles by a voice vote, the offices of the top Senate Democrat and Republican confirmed. But minutes later, that motion was reconsidered, and ultimately reversed by a roll call vote, with 17 votes in favor of the amendment and 21 against it.

 

[Credulious]

Did you notice how easy it was to be in England? I loved it.

Hm. I have several friends who live in France as well as visit relatives who still live in France. My one friends were even there after the massacre by Marseilles. They did not notice anything different.

Your daughter had that protection the whole time? Where was that? I have to ask my French friends if they know about this even if you do not feel comfortable in responding,

The French have local police and the Gendarmes. Not sure if local police are armed?

I have friends in Brittany, Biarritz, Lyons, Marseilles, Paris, and Cassis.

Planty of kids being shot in UK with no guns mostly gang related

 

[bluesneakers]

Planty of kids being shot in UK with no guns mostly gang related

What?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I don't not respect it. I've been immensely respectful about this issue throughout. But a lot of those issues are true the world over. The difference is that guns are tightly regulated in a lot of other comparable countries. Hence other countries having lower gun crime than the US. Drugs, an issue in the UK, Canada, Australia etc. Domestic violence ditto. Disaffected young people, mental health, a disparity between affluence and poverty. Again all things that people in comparable countries have to deal with.

The lack of adequate punishment, laws, illegal gun holding are all issues that come up in gun control. The system the US has for reducing gun crime, and making sure guns are used responsibly is obviously not working. But that is never going to change just by shouting "2nd amendment" whenever realistic solutions are suggested, which I have done multiple times during this discussion.

Blef, I am heartened by your passion and compassion. I am heartened by your concern. Yes, there are immense problems the world over. And, just want you to know, coming from a state where I never even had to think about guns, such landscapes, they do exist in America.

What sets this country apart? --Diversity. It's truly what I love about America. And the 2nd amendment is our DNA historically.

Flashback to the 60-70's. You had to be really sure about where you travelled in America. Films like Five Easy Pieces and Easy Rider dipicted the nuances of our diversity back then.

If I, a NJ Luddite with guns, were to move to the south of my country, I'd be the first in a gun class!!! I would need help!!!

Our problems are bigger than guns. Imo. The world's problems are bigger than guns. Imo.

America has a violent past. There is no one size fits all here. I feel very safe in NYC, not so much in Miami! That's us.

If anything has come of our latest tragedy is how can we see clear to come to grips as a society. Not a government, alone. Yes, sure, see our way clear to this slipstream of kids who want to make a statement with weapons of war. But it is more encompassing than that. Not only do our children deserve to feel safe, but so do our teachers.

 

[kimlynn]

Did you notice how easy it was to be in England? I loved it.

Hm. I have several friends who live in France as well as visit relatives who still live in France. My one friends were even there after the massacre by Marseilles. They did not notice anything different.

Your daughter had that protection the whole time? Where was that? I have to ask my French friends if they know about this even if you do not feel comfortable in responding,

The French have local police and the Gendarmes. Not sure if local police are armed?

I have friends in Brittany, Biarritz, Lyons, Marseilles, Paris, and Cassis.

I was thinking of your post a few days ago about the worst drug dealers could do was throw rocks at each other during a fight.
I wish it were the same in the U.S.
Imagine if all we had to worry about was a thrown rock instead of innocent bystanders hit with bullets

 

[Gardenista]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...nt-crime-senior-officers-criticised-ignoring/

Britain hit by surge in violent crime: senior officers criticised for ignoring basics as gun and knife offences soar

12 APRIL 2017 • 11:34PM
Britain is in the grip of a sudden surge in violent crime, Scotland Yard warned yesterday, amid criticism of senior officers.

Following years of decline in gun and knife crime, the Metropolitan 
Police reported a leap in recorded 
offences in the capital, with gun crime rising by 42 per cent year on year and knife crime up by 24 per cent.

Sex offences, robberies and assaults also increased.

 

[human]

Blef, I am heartened by your passion and compassion. I am heartened by your concern. Yes, there are immense problems the world over. And, just want you to know, coming from a state where I never even had to think about guns, such landscapes, they do exist in America.

What sets this country apart? --Diversity. It's truly what I love about America. And the 2nd amendment is our DNA historically.

Flashback to the 60-70's. You had to be really sure about where you travelled in America. Films like Five Easy Pieces and Easy Rider dipicted the nuances of our diversity back then.

If I, a NJ Luddite with guns, were to move to the south of my country, I'd be the first in a gun class!!! I would need help!!!

Our problems are bigger than guns. Imo. The world's problems are bigger than guns. Imo.

America has a violent past. There is no one size fits all here. I feel very safe in NYC, not so much in Miami! That's us.

If anything has come of our latest tragedy is how can we see clear to come to grips as a society. Not a government, alone. Yes, sure, see our way clear to this slipstream of kids who want to make a statement with weapons of war. But it is more encompassing than that. Not only do our children deserve to feel safe, but so do our teachers.

I think a trip to Europe would display the incredible diversity. One thing, in the UK and France, they have many territories and colonies so that people can freely move to France or England. Sweden has Iraqui. Not sure of what else.

It is so fabulous to see because people wear their clothing from their country. And they have the food. Open air markets. Rich in the cultures. A total delight

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

You replied to a post from me, then said to Blef:



So who was the poster who referenced "gun prohibition" you were responding to, if not me or Blef?

Blef mistakenly replied to a post where he used that term. No biggie....it happens....

 

[CoverMeCagney]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...nt-crime-senior-officers-criticised-ignoring/

Britain hit by surge in violent crime: senior officers criticised for ignoring basics as gun and knife offences soar

12 APRIL 2017 • 11:34PM
Britain is in the grip of a sudden surge in violent crime, Scotland Yard warned yesterday, amid criticism of senior officers.

Following years of decline in gun and knife crime, the Metropolitan 
Police reported a leap in recorded 
offences in the capital, with gun crime rising by 42 per cent year on year and knife crime up by 24 per cent.

Sex offences, robberies and assaults also increased.

Not to trivialise crime, but....

Sex offences can include a drunk man grabbing your butt in a nightclub,
Robberies might include getting your garden gnomes nicked.
Assaults, as previously mentioned, can include such things as spitting.

I am not sure what proportion of 30,000+ gun deaths per year could fall into a more trivial category.

 

[bluesneakers]

Planty of kids being shot in UK with no guns mostly gang related

I'm not sure what you're trying to say or where you're getting your numbers, but this is from the Office of National Statistics:

*There were 571 homicides (murder, manslaughter and infanticide) in the year ending March 2016 in England and Wales. This represents an increase of 57 offences (11%) from the 514 recorded in the previous year.

*The number of homicides has shown a general downward trend over recent years and the 571 recorded was still one of the lowest levels since the late 1980s, despite having increased from the previous year.

*There were 38 homicide victims aged under 16 years in the year ending March 2016, the lowest number since data on homicide victims by age of victim was first published in 1972.

*The most common method of killing continued to be by knife or other sharp instrument with 213 victims killed in this way, accounting for over 1 in 3 (37%) homicides.

*The 26 homicide victims (5% of the total) that were killed by shooting showed an increase of 5 from the previous year, but is otherwise the lowest number since 1980 (19 homicides).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ndsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/homicide

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Florida Senate passes,and immediately reverses temporary ban on AR-15

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-senate-passes-immediately-reverses-ar-15-ban-2018-03-03/

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Florida's upper chamber briefly approved a ban on AR-15-style rifles before immediately reversing that move Saturday. The Florida state Senate approved a two-year moratorium on the sale, delivery and transfer of AR-15-style rifles by a voice vote, the offices of the top Senate Democrat and Republican confirmed. But minutes later, that motion was reconsidered, and ultimately reversed by a roll call vote, with 17 votes in favor of the amendment and 21 against it.

Personally, I think we’re going to see more of this crazy stuff **unless** we also see mandated stiffer laws punishing those who unlawfully (since this new law proposed AR’s to be banned) commit a crime while in possession of an AR-15. Like life in prison with no chance of parole.

 

[kimlynn]

What?

Probably that old saw that only law abiding will follow restrictions on guns. IMO