Gun Control Debate #6

[EuTuCroquet?]

Leon County School Board signs resolution against arming teachers

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/n...resolution-against-arming-teachers/464626002/

The only people who will be allowed to have a gun in Leon County Schools are law enforcement officers, according to a resolution signed by the School Board Tuesday night.

The resolution was signed by Superintendent Rocky Hanna and all five school board members.

"I would like to tell you all the Leon County School Board will not be arming teachers," Chair Alva Striplin said, which was followed by audience applause. "Our job is to educate children. And to keep them safe. And to follow the law. And that’s what we’re going to do."

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Vermont House passes gun reform bill now heads to Senate floor

http://www.mychamplainvalley.com/ne...orm-bill-now-heads-to-senate-floor/1084366486

The Vermont House gave final approval on major gun reform Tuesday night.

The bill would expand background checks, a ban on bump stocks, and a ten round limit on high capacity magazines or clips and raising the gun purchasing age to 21.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Friends who survived Sandy Hook and Parkland are on a mission to ‘move the needle’ on gun reform

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/f...on-a-mission-to-move-the-needle-on-gun-reform

It was just total disbelief, because I thought, how is that possible that, in our friend group, there are — you know, this has happened twice? How is that possible? And I kept thinking, it can’t be true.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

bbm

Parkland teens clarify Second Amendment repeal isn’t their mission

https://mic.com/articles/188635/par...mendment-repeal-isnt-their-mission#.jcbhwJDQ8

The organization’s aims are spelled out clearly on its website: Its teenage constituents want increased funding for gun violence research, looser restrictions at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, universal background checks, a ban on high-capacity magazines and a comprehensive ban on assault weapons.

But a repeal of the Second Amendment has never been on that list, and the coalition’s most visible leaders have never been shy in saying so.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Verona’s State Legislators Back Some Gun Control Measures

http://www.myveronanj.com/2018/03/27/veronas-state-legislators-back-gun-control-measures/

Assemblyman Jay Webber (R-NJ26) voted Yes on three of the six bills, while Assemblywoman BettyLou DeCroce (R-NJ26) voted yes on two of the six. The measures, which must still pass the state Senate, include so-called red flag laws to restrict gun sales to people whose mental state could make gun ownership a risk to themselves or others, background checks for private gun sales, a ban on owning armor-piercing ammunition and a reduction in the maximum capacity of ammunition magazines to 10 rounds.

 

[Karinna]

Debt isn’t synonymous with actual slavery. I find it an offensive comparison. IMO and all that.

Your response is confusing to me. Are you saying civil protest is pointless and changes nothing?

Look at our labor laws. The 40-hour workweek. Child labor laws. ... One example.

(quote)
Debt bondage or bonded labour – the world’s most widespread form of slavery, when people borrow money they cannot repay and are required to work to pay off the debt, then losing control over the conditions of both their employment and the debt.
https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/

 

[bluesneakers]

Friends who survived Sandy Hook and Parkland are on a mission to ‘move the needle’ on gun reform

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/f...on-a-mission-to-move-the-needle-on-gun-reform

That is amazing. Thank you for the link.

 

[bluesneakers]

(quote)
Debt bondage or bonded labour – the world’s most widespread form of slavery, when people borrow money they cannot repay and are required to work to pay off the debt, then losing control over the conditions of both their employment and the debt.
https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/

From your link:

Someone is in slavery if they are:

- forced to work – through coercion, or mental or physical threat;
- owned or controlled by an ’employer’, through mental or physical abuse or the threat of abuse;
- dehumanised, treated as a commodity or bought and sold as ‘property’;
- physically constrained or have restrictions placed on their freedom of movement.

Not the same as being in debt.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

5 For Good: Sculpture by high school students highlights gun violence

http://www.wcvb.com/article/5-for-g...ool-students-highlights-gun-violence/19612379

VIDEO: Students at a Massachusetts high school made 706 votive candles to highlight how many children have been killed by guns in the past three months.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Governor Carney’s Statement on House Passage of Beau Biden Gun Violence Prevention Act

https://news.delaware.gov/2018/03/27/house-passes-beau-biden-gun-violence-prevention-act/

“Thank you to members of the Delaware House of Representatives for their bipartisan vote to approve this important piece of legislation. The Beau Biden Gun Violence Prevention Act would responsibly restrict access to firearms for those who are considered a danger to themselves or others – while protecting the due process rights of all Delawareans. The bill also takes steps to ensure that Delaware health professionals and law enforcement are working more closely together on the issue of gun safety. We remain committed to working with members of the General Assembly, in both parties, to directly confront the issue of gun violence in a comprehensive way. As I have said, we need a national approach to gun safety. But we cannot wait to do what’s right in Delaware. We must take steps that will make our state safer. This vote today represents important progress. Thank you to members of the House for their vote, and I look forward to the Delaware Senate considering this legislation.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

More stories:


Commentary: Treat gun violence as a public health crisis

Gun-violence victims speaking to Illinois House committee

Gun violence prompts Washington archdiocesan youths to march

The Daily Show Went to a Gun Rally and Uncovered the REAL Victims of Gun Violence: Guns

Leon County commissioners move forward with gun show loophole law

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Not So Long Ago, the Second Amendment Didn’t Guarantee the Right to Own a Gun

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...-always-guaranteed-the-right-to-own-guns.html

It wasn’t until 2010, in the case of McDonald v. Chicago that another 5–4 Supreme Court majority determined that its novel interpretation of personal, civilian gun rights would be binding on the states via the 14th Amendment. Again Stevens wrote the principal dissent, arguing that even if there’s some personal right to bear arms outside the militia context, it’s hardly the sort of “liberty interest” that requires its imposition on the states.

This treatment of the subject is far, far away from the standard conservative treatment of the Second Amendment as the most fundamental right of them all, extending not just to the sawed-off shotguns Congress was regulating in 1939 to all sorts of military and quasi-military weapons.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Westchester DA pushes for new gun law

http://westchester.news12.com/story/37822171/westchester-da-pushes-for-new-gun-law

District Attorney Anthony Scarpino says he supports a new bill which would allow a police officer to take guns away from someone in a crisis and prevent them from buying another one.

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
History of the Second Amendment

The Second Amendment provides U.S. citizens the right to bear arms. Ratified in December 1791, the amendment says:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

James Madison originally proposed the Second Amendment shortly after the Constitution was officially ratified as a way to provide more power to state militias, which today are considered the National Guard. It was deemed a compromise between Federalists — those who supported the Constitution as it was ratified — and the anti-Federalists — those who supported states having more power. Having just used guns and other arms to ward off the English, the amendment was originally created to give citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government.
https://www.livescience.com/26485-second-amendment.html

 

[human]

(quote)
History of the Second Amendment

The Second Amendment provides U.S. citizens the right to bear arms. Ratified in December 1791, the amendment says:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

James Madison originally proposed the Second Amendment shortly after the Constitution was officially ratified as a way to provide more power to state militias, which today are considered the National Guard. It was deemed a compromise between Federalists — those who supported the Constitution as it was ratified — and the anti-Federalists — those who supported states having more power. Having just used guns and other arms to ward off the English, the amendment was originally created to give citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government.
https://www.livescience.com/26485-second-amendment.html

The National Guard is what has the right?

 

[Karinna]

The National Guard is what has the right?

There is a bit more about that here
(quote)
WELL-REGULATED MILITIA

Practically since its ratification, Americans have debated the meaning of the Second Amendment, with vehement arguments being made on both sides.

The crux of the debate is whether the amendment protects the right of private individuals to keep and bear arms, or whether it instead protects a collective right that should be exercised only through formal militia units.

Those who argue it is a collective right point to the “well-regulated Militia” clause in the Second Amendment. They argue that the right to bear arms should be given only to organized groups, like the National Guard, a reserve military force that replaced the state militias after the Civil War.
https://www.history.com/topics/2nd-amendment

 

[ohreally]

The United States Supreme Court has ruled in both the Heller case and Mcdonald vs Chicago that the United States Constitution gives individuals, not just militia, the right to own guns. They used not just the second admendment but also the 14th admendment to come to thier conclusion. Using the second admendment wording only, and not including the wording of the 14th admendment is picking and choosing words and not considering the whole constitution.
In the supreme court's decisions they have made it clear that individuals do have the right to protect themselves with guns. The also made it clear that the government can regulate who (felon, mental) where (Gun free zones) and types of guns (automatic, bombs) that indiviuals can own. I may or may not not like thier rulings, but at this time these are our laws.

 

[Blef]

(quote)
History of the Second Amendment

The Second Amendment provides U.S. citizens the right to bear arms. Ratified in December 1791, the amendment says:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

James Madison originally proposed the Second Amendment shortly after the Constitution was officially ratified as a way to provide more power to state militias, which today are considered the National Guard. It was deemed a compromise between Federalists — those who supported the Constitution as it was ratified — and the anti-Federalists — those who supported states having more power. Having just used guns and other arms to ward off the English, the amendment was originally created to give citizens the opportunity to fight back against a tyrannical federal government.
https://www.livescience.com/26485-second-amendment.html

RBBM. “A well regulated militia...” So firstly the amendment says “well regulated” not a free for all anarchic society who live for individualism. WELL regulated. So obviously if they are well regulated there should be strict controls.

Secondly militia. Not common people. Militia. At a time when the US was in its infancy and needed the common man’s help to back up the military to stop foreign forces taking the US. Now the US has a strong militia and the capability to nuke any attacking countries out of existence.

And remember this was written in 1791. Over 225 years ago when semi and fully automatic weapons hadn’t even been thought of by the most forward thinking inventor.

If it the second amendment is supposed to be taken literally then where is the cut off point. What arms are acceptable? Should a citizen be allowed to use nerve agents, bombs, tanks, nuclear warheads?

The second amendment was written for the US society at that time. Over 225 years have passed and I don’t think the Queen of England is marching to your door to take your land.

 

[Woodland]

RBBM. “A well regulated militia...” So firstly the amendment says “well regulated” not a free for all anarchic society who live for individualism. WELL regulated. So obviously if they are well regulated there should be strict controls.

Secondly militia. Not common people. Militia. At a time when the US was in its infancy and needed the common man’s help to back up the military to stop foreign forces taking the US. Now the US has a strong militia and the capability to nuke any attacking countries out of existence.

And remember this was written in 1791. Over 225 years ago when semi and fully automatic weapons hadn’t even been thought of by the most forward thinking inventor.

If it the second amendment is supposed to be taken literally then where is the cut off point. What arms are acceptable? Should a citizen be allowed to use nerve agents, bombs, tanks, nuclear warheads?

The second amendment was written for the US society at that time. Over 225 years have passed and I don’t think the Queen of England is marching to your door to take your land.

BBM- just in case I see something suspicious, is it still 'one if by land, two if by sea'?

 

[Ironhorse]

The Gun debate is an easy one.

Either ignore it or do massive confiscation. The latter of course means stomaching the horrors of watching your neighbors being murdered, at the hands of the forces you've authorized to take their means of defense away. Soon enough that same force will turn on those who allowed it, then where will you be? In a room where the showers have no water?

The Constitution has always been about limiting the Federal government, not giving it imperial powers. "Right of the people" means individuals. People form militias, not governments. Governments can only form armies, not militias. That's why the framers of the Constitution said that right shall not be infringed, they feared a force of government being created in the distant future, that might seek to do that very thing. The right of the people to form militias was the bulkhead to thwart such action. Yet, the Court over the last century has done nothing but try to abolish that right at every turn. Now, that we are witnessing the mass attempt to remove the people's defense, to thwart oppressive government. We understand more so now than ever, the absolute necessity, of why the framers put it in there, in the first place.