Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #6

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Accidental discharge how? The FBI couldn't make it do it and had to break it in order that it did.
From the Sheriff's docket, page 226, Interview of prop master Sarah Zachary by A. Hancock:

Sarah brought up her accidental discharge with one of the weapons. She advised there were 3 guns on set that day, and she was helping Hannah reload one of the guns after one of the "takes." She said the gun was for a character identified as "Ike," and she was reloading the gun with 4 load blanks since he had just recently discharged the ones that were in it. Sarah advised after closing the "loading gate" on the colt, she had to pull the hammer back all the while pulling the trigger at the same time to get the gun ready again for the actor. Sarah said while she was doing this, the hammer slipped from her thumb, which caused the gun to discharge.

We don't know if this was the same weapon involved in the shooting. There are serious chain of custody issues in this whole sad affair, especially with regard to the ammunition.
 
Accidental discharge how? The FBI couldn't make it do it and had to break it in order that it did.

Article saying this happened, including calling it a misfire which we know is not the right terminology:


The prop gun used in the fatal shooting of the cinematographer of the movie Alec Baldwin was producing had misfired before on the set, sources familiar with the situation told NBC News Friday.


New trigger was added to ‘Rust’ prop gun before fatal shooting, making misfire possible: report​

 
Article saying this happened, including calling it a misfire which we know is not the right terminology:


The prop gun used in the fatal shooting of the cinematographer of the movie Alec Baldwin was producing had misfired before on the set, sources familiar with the situation told NBC News Friday.


New trigger was added to ‘Rust’ prop gun before fatal shooting, making misfire possible: report​

I'm guessing that the "New York Post" is far from being considered the Journal of Record on your side of the pond?

That article provides absolutely no source for the info about the trigger being swapped and then goes on to contradict itself in stating that the FBI report showed that there was no way the gun could be fired without the trigger being depressed!

Why would you want to swap a trigger in the first place? The only reason would be that the original was faulty. You'd hardly replace it with another faulty one!

Even if it was faulty and caused the hammer to slip off its full-*advertiser censored* notch then the other two notches would have caught it on the way down.

It also gives the impression that the charges against AB were dropped due to this new trigger. That is completely false.
 

Hammer of gun in 'Rust' shooting possibly modified, prosecutors say​


May 18 (Reuters) - The hammer of the gun actor Alec Baldwin was holding when it fired a live round killing "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins may have been intentionally modified, New Mexico special prosecutors said in a court filing this week.
 

Hammer of gun in 'Rust' shooting possibly modified, prosecutors say​


May 18 (Reuters) - The hammer of the gun actor Alec Baldwin was holding when it fired a live round killing "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins may have been intentionally modified, New Mexico special prosecutors said in a court filing this week.

So the producers rented a gun for this production and hired a nearly inexperienced armorer and got a faulty gun? And then Dave Halls picked that gun up for a quick draw run-through? No blanks needed for what was about to transpire, but DH thought it would be good to use that gun anyway? This was a real u-know-what of a production.

Question really is: who the heck was in charge of hiring all the other people? Who was the real producer? (Or producers).
 
I think you are getting mixed up in the terminology here - a mis-fire is a failure to fire. What I think you mean is an accidental/negligent discharge?

That may or may not have happened with this gun but the defence still needs to show how it could have happened. Lets not forget that the FBI had to physically break the gun in order to get it to discharge without the trigger being depressed. If it already had a fault allowing it to do that then it must be easily identifiable. This is a very simple piece of engineering, after all, and the original parts are still with it.

Yes, you're right, the defence has every right, indeed duty, to test the veracity of the evidence. They still can as the gun and it's parts are available to them. Their problem, as I see it, is this; the defence still needs to present a plausible explanation as to how the gun unintentionally fired. It needs to show exactly what was defective about the gun which allowed it to discharge without the person holding it needing to press the trigger - it must show how that hammer bypassed at least three safety systems from it's full-*advertiser censored* position in order to ignite the cartridge in the chamber.

In order to do that they are going to have to come up with some extremely novel and unusual explanation; there are probably hundreds of videos and articles out there by now explaining how these guns work and how exceptionally unlikely it is that these things go off without pressure on the trigger. I am not aware of a single article, video or expert opinion which offers any plausible scenario in which AB's version of events (that it discharged without pressure on the trigger) could be correct. If anyone has any source to a credible differing opinion I'd be extremely interested to see it.

I don't have a dog in this fight other than wanting to promote the vales of safe firearms use. Honestly, if I could see any way in which this gun could have discharged without the trigger being pressed I'd be the first to shout up.

Moving on and looking at the bigger picture, even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that AB is correct and it did discharge without him pressing the trigger, then that does not absolve him of responsibility in this sorry affair. Accidents with firearms (indeed most things) never happen in a vacuum, they are always a consequence of a chain of events or actions which if one link is broken the accident doesn't take place. He pointed a firearm at someone, that firearm discharged and killed someone and severely wounded another person. Pointing it at someone was unnecessary; he didn't satisfy himself that the gun was unloaded; it was unnecessary to even use a real firearm! These are contraventions of the most basic principles of safe gun handling. The most basic one is not pointing guns at people. That alone makes it extremely unlikely that someone is going to get shot.
I really appreciate your analysis of this and working through the case. However, keep in mind, the Defense doesn't have to present anything. The burden remains on the Prosecution to prove all elements. Did AB pull the trigger? Personally, I think he did. But he swears he didn't. So then we get into the expert reports on whether its possible for the gun to fire without a trigger pull. The FBI report is surprisingly not very good. And not helpful to the prosecution. (I am still perplexed why the gun was given to the FBI to test at all). The private expert report is much more thorough and supportive of the Prosecution (assuming that the State is going to re-charge the manslaughter charge). But the FBI report still is there. The Defense will likely be able to come up with an expert to show the gun could discharge, OR to say it is now impossible to say (more likely) in which case, the State's report must be disavowed.

But that only focuses on that part, as you point out, the bigger picture. And this is where I think the Defense prevails. Functioning firearms are, and always have been, common props on movie sets. It is why armorers are used. Is an actor required himself to check a firearm? I don't think so. Nothing I have seen says so. He is allowed to rely on staff hired specifically for that purpose. We arent talking civil liability, we are talking criminal liability. AB's defense can claim he could reasonably rely on the fact that the gun would not be loaded with live ammunition for a LOT of reasons. Did he point the gun? Sure. It is a western movie. It is absurd to think that in rehearsals and filming of such a movie a gun won't be pointed in the direction of someone. Rules we consider second nature in handling of firearms in general or on a range, just don't apply on a film set in these regards. Should that be the case? Probably not, but this isn't going to be the question for the jury. The use of real firearms on movie sets probably should end for several reasons. Is AB and/or his affiliated company civilly liable for HH's death? Sure, and that has been settled. Is he CRIMINALLY liable because he was holding the gun? I think that is a hard stretch to make. And when it comes to criminal prosecution, I am very leery of stretching the law.
 
I'm guessing that the "New York Post" is far from being considered the Journal of Record on your side of the pond?

That article provides absolutely no source for the info about the trigger being swapped and then goes on to contradict itself in stating that the FBI report showed that there was no way the gun could be fired without the trigger being depressed!

Why would you want to swap a trigger in the first place? The only reason would be that the original was faulty. You'd hardly replace it with another faulty one!

Even if it was faulty and caused the hammer to slip off its full-*advertiser censored* notch then the other two notches would have caught it on the way down.

It also gives the impression that the charges against AB were dropped due to this new trigger. That is completely false.

How about the BBC as a source?

 
Sorry, my reply was incomplete because WS crashed. Here are some links to stories reporting someone (I assume the company that rented the guns to the movie company) changed the triggers before Baldwin used the gun. It may explain why it went off accidentally a few days before.


Charges were dropped against Mr Baldwin six months ago after it was reported that the . 45 Colt revolver had been modified with a new trigger in a way that could have made a misfire more likely.





A separate source told CNN the decision to dismiss charges against Baldwin was made after new evidence came to the attention of investigators indicating the gun used in the shooting had been modified, though the exact nature of the modifications was not clear and that investigators will be examining the weapon to determine the extent of the modifications, which could have impacted how the gun functioned.


The new evidence presented has the potential to contradict the 2022 FBI forensics report on the gun, which had stated that the weapon could not be fired without pulling the trigger while the gun was cocked.
 
Sorry, my reply was incomplete because WS crashed. Here are some links to stories reporting someone (I assume the company that rented the guns to the movie company) changed the triggers before Baldwin used the gun. It may explain why it went off accidentally a few days before.


Charges were dropped against Mr Baldwin six months ago after it was reported that the . 45 Colt revolver had been modified with a new trigger in a way that could have made a misfire more likely.





A separate source told CNN the decision to dismiss charges against Baldwin was made after new evidence came to the attention of investigators indicating the gun used in the shooting had been modified, though the exact nature of the modifications was not clear and that investigators will be examining the weapon to determine the extent of the modifications, which could have impacted how the gun functioned.


The new evidence presented has the potential to contradict the 2022 FBI forensics report on the gun, which had stated that the weapon could not be fired without pulling the trigger while the gun was cocked.
I think we might still be having some WS issues, but thought I would respond while I had the chance.

The charges were dropped after that report came out. Now, were the charges dropped BECAUSE of the report exactly? Not sure. My opinion as a lawyer, and it is of course just an opinion as an outsider, is that the new special came on board, got this report and simply said, "lets just pull the plug on this, and re-evaluate everything." Because it was headed for disaster. If she does refile the manslaughter charges, I expect a far better and focused case than before. There is apparently some new evidence, so we will see how this plays into it.
 
I think we might still be having some WS issues, but thought I would respond while I had the chance.

The charges were dropped after that report came out. Now, were the charges dropped BECAUSE of the report exactly? Not sure. My opinion as a lawyer, and it is of course just an opinion as an outsider, is that the new special came on board, got this report and simply said, "lets just pull the plug on this, and re-evaluate everything." Because it was headed for disaster. If she does refile the manslaughter charges, I expect a far better and focused case than before. There is apparently some new evidence, so we will see how this plays into it.

You got to post just in time!

Thanks for the expert opinion. We'll have to see what comes up from the prosecution.

ETA, in a post from several days ago, I noted in reply to a news media link that their quote sounded like they were going to use a Grand Jury. Something about letting the people of yadda yadda county decide whether to charge AB.

Here's the old article mentioning a grand jury

 
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Question really is: who the heck was in charge of hiring all the other people? Who was the real producer? (Or producers).
Gabrielle Pickle is the person who's listed as the line producer. I'm pretty sure she's the one who made the hiring decisions for the below-the-line crew, i.e. not the actors, directors, etc.

Pickle is also the one who sent emails to HGR telling her there wouldn't be any further training for Baldwin and that HGR had to spend less time focusing on her armorer duties:

On October 14, 2021, Gabriel Pickle emailed Hannah Gutierrez-Reed addressing Armorer and Key Assistant Props duties and stating, “...it has been brought to my attention that you are focusing far more on Armor and not supporting props as needed.”

On October 17, 2021, Hanna Gutierrez-Reed sent a text message to Gabrielle Pickle stating, “Hey, we’re on day 8 of Armor days. So if there’s gunfire after this you may want to talk to the producers.” Ms. Pickle replied the same day that there would be “No more trading (sic) days.” Ms. Gutierrez-Reed then asked to clarify, “Training days?” Ms. Pickle responded, “Like training Alec and such.”



Of course Pickle isn't one of the top-level producers. I think she would have likely been given a budget and told to stick to it, so she would have tried to cut corners where she could. (It's not unusual to see this in corporate scandals. The top guys set unrealistic expectations and puts their staff under immense pressure. Then they act surprised when the law gets broken. I've seen it with scandals at Wells Fargo, MF Global, and many other places.)
 
You got to post just in time!

Thanks for the expert opinion. We'll have to see what comes up from the prosecution.

ETA, in a post from several days ago, I noted in reply to a news media link that their quote sounded like they were going to use a Grand Jury. Something about letting the people of yadda yadda county decide whether to charge AB.

Here's the old article mentioning a grand jury

Why is the Special Prosecutor going to a grand jury instead of charging by Information?
 
The Prosecutor doesn't need a GJ at all, she can just file an Information to charge him. A grand jury isn't required in N.M..

"Damage was done to internal components of the gun during the FBI’s functionality testing."

"Special Prosecutors Kari Morrissey and Jason Lewis commissioned a new forensic examination of the Colt .45
by 2 forensic scientists and the examination concluded that the trigger had been pulled."

@PrairieWind @Betty P

Don't you think that this damage that was done to internal components of the gun give rise to enough reasonable doubt that a jury would choose not to convict?

How can forensic scientists test a gun that was ruined basically?

*scratch head*
 
"Damage was done to internal components of the gun during the FBI’s functionality testing."

"Special Prosecutors Kari Morrissey and Jason Lewis commissioned a new forensic examination of the Colt .45
by 2 forensic scientists and the examination concluded that the trigger had been pulled."

@PrairieWind @Betty P

Don't you think that this damage that was done to internal components of the gun give rise to enough reasonable doubt that a jury would choose not to convict?

How can forensic scientists test a gun that was ruined basically?

*scratch head*
I think that the Defense will move to have the second test excluded completely. But the judge may let it in and let the jury decide how much weight to give it. The prior FBI report will also have to be disclosed to the jury and the fact that the second tests were done under those conditions. This is part of why I think it would be odd for the Special Prosecutor to refile manslaughter charges on AB. The evidence is a mess, there is already another defendant against which the evidence is strong. So unless there is something else out there, I don't understand the zealous need to bring those charges. I didn't think Helena's family was pushing for this, but maybe they are.
 
Sorry, my reply was incomplete because WS crashed. Here are some links to stories reporting someone (I assume the company that rented the guns to the movie company) changed the triggers before Baldwin used the gun. It may explain why it went off accidentally a few days before.


Charges were dropped against Mr Baldwin six months ago after it was reported that the . 45 Colt revolver had been modified with a new trigger in a way that could have made a misfire more likely.





A separate source told CNN the decision to dismiss charges against Baldwin was made after new evidence came to the attention of investigators indicating the gun used in the shooting had been modified, though the exact nature of the modifications was not clear and that investigators will be examining the weapon to determine the extent of the modifications, which could have impacted how the gun functioned.


The new evidence presented has the potential to contradict the 2022 FBI forensics report on the gun, which had stated that the weapon could not be fired without pulling the trigger while the gun was cocked.
The BBC article says;

Charges were dropped against Mr Baldwin six months ago after it was reported that the .45 Colt revolver had been modified with a new trigger in a way that could have made a misfire more likely.

Who reported that the trigger had been modified? I've never seen any source for that info - it just seems to be "out there" with no origin.

No one has even come up with a plausible explanation as to how a replacement trigger would make an unintentional discharge more likely, either. There is a single point of contact which is the very top piece of the trigger (the sear) which engages with the various sear notches on the hammer. That point of contact was categorically working when the FBI had the gun as they managed to smash it in testing.

Neither the FBI report or the Haag report have mentioned anything in relation to the trigger being swapped or the trigger which was in the gun at the time of the incident having been faulty or "modified".

What those articles miss, though, is that the FBI report is not the only report we have now. The second report makes no mention of the original trigger being faulty.

I completely agree with PrarieWind that the defence does not have a duty to demonstrate anything to disprove the prosecution's case. Surely they do need to demonstrate the factualness of something they say, however? If they say that the trigger had been messed with so as to make it more likely to accidentally discharge then they must necessarily have to back that up with facts? Indeed, if that is the case it should be fairly easy to demonstrate by an examination of the parts?

It will be very interesting to see whether the defence commission their own forensic report on the should, should AB be charged again. That's a report I'd very much like to see!
 
I think we might still be having some WS issues, but thought I would respond while I had the chance.

The charges were dropped after that report came out. Now, were the charges dropped BECAUSE of the report exactly? Not sure.
My opinion as a lawyer, and it is of course just an opinion as an outsider, is that the new special came on board, got this report and simply said, "lets just pull the plug on this, and re-evaluate everything." Because it was headed for disaster. If she does refile the manslaughter charges, I expect a far better and focused case than before. There is apparently some new evidence, so we will see how this plays into it.
These are very interesting questions. I forget the precise details but wasn't it the case that the charges were dropped due to someone pointing out that the statute under which he was charged wasn't actually in force at the time of the shooting?

I'd never heard the suggestion that they were dropped due to this gun "modification" issue until very recently. I have my doubts as to how true that is, quite frankly. Surely, AB would have been making significant mileage form it were it genuinely the case?
 
These are very interesting questions. I forget the precise details but wasn't it the case that the charges were dropped due to someone pointing out that the statute under which he was charged wasn't actually in force at the time of the shooting?

I'd never heard the suggestion that they were dropped due to this gun "modification" issue until very recently. I have my doubts as to how true that is, quite frankly. Surely, AB would have been making significant mileage form it were it genuinely the case?

I think it was both. There was more than one charge against him. One of those original charges, IIRC, the gun enhancement charge, was nil because it became effective after he was charged.





Los Angeles-based entertainment litigator and defense attorney Kate Mangels, who is not involved in the “Rust” case, said opportunities for further charges against Baldwin are narrowing.

“If they don’t have the evidence now, I don’t see what evidence they could obtain or that could develop. …It looks like they already had 30 people on a witness list, a cooperative (codefendant) witness, investigations done by various law enforcement agencies. It seems like this has already been pretty well investigated. I can’t imagine what would arise to bring new charges.”

Authorities have not determined how live ammunition found its way into the .45-caliber revolver made by an Italian company that specializes in 19th century reproductions.

This story has been updated to correct that the August FBI report did find a scenario in which the gun could have gone off without the trigger being pulled, and to correct the spelling of Morrissey.

The above news stories at the links are from the time when the prosecution announced they were dropping charges against AB.
 
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"Damage was done to internal components of the gun during the FBI’s functionality testing."

"Special Prosecutors Kari Morrissey and Jason Lewis commissioned a new forensic examination of the Colt .45
by 2 forensic scientists and the examination concluded that the trigger had been pulled."

@PrairieWind @Betty P

Don't you think that this damage that was done to internal components of the gun give rise to enough reasonable doubt that a jury would choose not to convict?

How can forensic scientists test a gun that was ruined basically?

*scratch head*
The broken parts of the gun are still there. The relevant part, the trigger with it's snapped off sear, is photographed in the Haag report and appears to me to be a very clean break. It would be easy to determine whether that part, when intact, was sufficient to hold the hammer at its most rearward position via simple measurement.

The very fact that the part did snap when the FBI hit it demonstrates that it was perfectly functioning at that point. I'd venture to suggest that a suitably qualified metallurgist could calculate the force required to snap that part and I'd also suggest that it would be a lot! That means that the full-*advertiser censored* notch on the hammer had a very good grip on it. The hammer would not be likely to slip and even if it did it would have been caught on its way down by either of the other notches.
 
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