Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #6

[Endlesswander]

On a further point about safety and personal responsibility perhaps the wording needs to be changed when guns are handled on movie sets, or anywhere for that matter. We are told that the term "cold gun" is used in the industry to inform the recipient (and others in the vicinity) that it has been checked as being not loaded with blanks or live ammunition.

Doing that places no responsibility on the part of the recipient - usually an actor. In fact, it allows them to abrogate their responsibility, IMO.

Maybe the call should put the onus on the person handing the gun? What about saying are you satisfied that this gun is SAFE to do the thing you are going to do with it? or are you SURE that this gun is "cold"? That requires a response on the part of the person taking possession of the firearm - they cannot remain passive.

Pilots make a "you have control" statement followed by an "I have control" response when handing over and accepting responsibility for their aircraft. Perhaps where firearms are concerned the appropriate call might be "you have responsibility" followed by the appropriate acknowledgement?

Just some random thoughts.

I do wonder if the fact this is the first incident with a live round on set causing death on injury (so far as i'm aware) shows that the protocols do tend to catch any issues. I that's what i think makes this so sad for me, like in many of those aircrash investigation episodes, things that should have been known we're disregarded or devalued with the most catastrophic consequences. I'm trying to reserve judgment till we hear all the facts (though i have gut feelings ofc) but i feel a combination of inexperience, cavalier attitude and greed created this 'perfect storm' where this incident could occur.

As an aside I think i watched most aircrash investigators, and the one saving grace is that when they aren't trying to blame the pilot the avoid liability as in some cases, it does tend to lead to serious and immediate change in the industry. I hope that is something which can be done here and that others who use firearms in this way don't just think 'that would never happen to me'.

All JMO.

 

[Endlesswander]

She wasn't ready for the job, JMO. I think she was hired because her father was a well respected armorer and they assumed she was well trained by him.

RSBM

I do think you've hit the crux of it here. If she was ready she would have insisted on having the time needed to do the job correctly, though would that have made a difference when she was sure she'd put blanks in? JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Yes, she was responsible for the safety of everyone on the set, WRT firearms. She reneged on her most basic responsibilities - keeping live ammo off the set and inspecting and controlling all firearms used at all times.

She wasn't ready for the job, JMO. I think she was hired because her father was a well respected armorer and they assumed she was well trained by him. Sadly, that wasn't the case. When she posed flashing guns in her silly glamour photos, it was apparent she didn't take guns seriously. JMO. I doubt anyone will ever trust her to be an armorer again.

If HGR is convicted of manslaughter, a felony, she won’t be able to touch a gun in New Mexico, and I assume in many other states.

Under state law, New Mexico prohibits people who have been convicted of felonies from receiving, possessing or transporting a firearm within ten years of completing a sentence or probation.1 New Mexico also prohibits any person under age 19 from knowingly possessing or transporting a handgun.2

Firearm Prohibitions in New Mexico

Under state law, New Mexico prohibits people who have been convicted of felonies from receiving, possessing or transporting a firearm within ten years of completing a sentence or probation.

giffords.org

 

[PrairieWind]

Yes, she was responsible for the safety of everyone on the set, WRT firearms. She reneged on her most basic responsibilities - keeping live ammo off the set and inspecting and controlling all firearms used at all times.

She wasn't ready for the job, JMO. I think she was hired because her father was a well respected armorer and they assumed she was well trained by him. Sadly, that wasn't the case. When she posed flashing guns in her silly glamour photos, it was apparent she didn't take guns seriously. JMO. I doubt anyone will ever trust her to be an armorer again.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this.

 

[Ruby12345]

If HGR is convicted of manslaughter, a felony, she won’t be able to touch a gun in New Mexico, and I assume in many other states.

I seriously doubt she would want to touch a gun again. IMO.

The article I read said she was working in social media for a company after being unemployed for a year.

If she goes to prison she'll struggle again to get a job when she gets out. Can't help feeling sorry for her a bit.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I seriously doubt she would want to touch a gun again. IMO.

The article I read said she was working in social media for a company after being unemployed for a year.

If she goes to prison she'll struggle again to get a job when she gets out. Can't help feeling sorry for her a bit.

You have a kind spirit. I have empathy for all involved. However, imo there should be zero tolerance when it comes to worker safety, particularly when a lack of safety can, and in this case - did, end in a fatality.

She was responsible for gun safety on set, and she failed. She might want to work with guns again, as it’s what she knows. That ship sailed. Hopefully she will find a more suitable line of work, after prison, if she does serve time. A new line of work where people’s lives are not endangered if she slips up.

jmo

 

[Marantz4250b]

RSBM

I do think you've hit the crux of it here. If she was ready she would have insisted on having the time needed to do the job correctly, though would that have made a difference when she was sure she'd put blanks in? JMO

It was dummy rounds she thought she had put in, not blanks.

To be fair to her, after watching her full police interview rather than just selected highlights, I get the distinct impression that she simply made a mistake rather than being willfully or grossly negligent. She didn't seem to give any impression that she didn't care and even specifically said that she was responsible for the firearms safety. She's not trying to shirk her responsibility, as far as that interview goes.

I agree that she comes over as rather inexperienced with firearms. I don't get the impression that she has any great experience of actually using firearms other than as movie props so isn't particularly knowledgeable about actually shooting them. Her comments about "...mostly only shooting .22's..." and not being able to recognise the .45 bullet pulled from Souza's shoulder the police showed her are evidence to that.

I'd still love to know where the live round came from. I suspect that it was in the box of "dummies" before she even got it, though. Which is another point about being a professional armourer; speaking personally, if dummy rounds were being used and I was the armourer then every single dummy round would be made by me personally and kept under my personal custody. The whole point of dummies is that they look identical to real ammo and so present a very real danger of being mixed up with real ones.

 

[PrairieWind]

I do have sympathy for HGR. I think this was a terrible accident. She screwed up. It was her job, I think there are questions about whether she took that job serious or not, but in the end, it was an accident. Sure, she should be held accountable and that very well may include prison time. But after she has done that, I hope she can regroup and live a productive life. The studios clearly need to clean up their act on a lot of things. Will they? Doubtful.

Marantz, you ask a good question and its a question that lingers. Where did that live round(s) come from? I find it very disturbing. It is truly stunning to me that an armorer could load a live round and not realize it. It doesn't appear that the Sheriff's Office was able to answer that question.

Another question I have is why was anything loaded into the revolver that day? It was just a rehearsal. There was no reason for dummies to be in the gun. Or was the gun going to be used again for actual filming later? There are just still a lot of questions that we haven't been given answers to yet.

 

[PrairieWind]

Oh, I might add, if the Sheriff's Office was unable to determine where that live round came from, you can expect the criminal defense teams to jump on that. It is VERY important!

 

[Marantz4250b]

I do have sympathy for HGR. I think this was a terrible accident. She screwed up. It was her job, I think there are questions about whether she took that job serious or not, but in the end, it was an accident. Sure, she should be held accountable and that very well may include prison time. But after she has done that, I hope she can regroup and live a productive life. The studios clearly need to clean up their act on a lot of things. Will they? Doubtful.

Marantz, you ask a good question and its a question that lingers. Where did that live round(s) come from? I find it very disturbing. It is truly stunning to me that an armorer could load a live round and not realize it. It doesn't appear that the Sheriff's Office was able to answer that question.

Another question I have is why was anything loaded into the revolver that day? It was just a rehearsal. There was no reason for dummies to be in the gun. Or was the gun going to be used again for actual filming later? There are just still a lot of questions that we haven't been given answers to yet.

I can't see movie studios cleaning up their act unless forced to by law. Having said that, it seems to be happening by default as regards the bigger productions as they can afford the CGI to put in shooting effects and for them it's probably cheaper and less trouble than using real firearms due to the economies of scale. You can spend £250K on CGI gunfire on a £100m movie but it's unlikely to happen on a £6m one which I think this one was.

However, as I say previously, they might find that they won't get insurance unless they radically change how they use real firearms. This horrible event could have easily been avoided by simply having a separate cylinder for the revolvers which had fixed dummy rounds which could not be removed. It would make total sense and you can swap a cylinder on these guns in literally seconds. Ten seconds, easily!

I do believe that she could have loaded a live round without realising. If she genuinely thought she heard it rattle then she thought it was a dummy. When you know all you have is a box of dummies it's not difficult to imagine that you can "hear" something which isn't there.

Last week I delivered a rifle to a guy. He gave me the "tour" of his gun cabinet and the guns in it - as one does. Before closing the actions to try the triggers I looked in the chambers but then with each one stuck a finger in too. It's not unheard of for someone to "see what they want to see or what should be there" rather than to see what is actually there. No way was I about to accidentally discharge a .300 Win Mag in someone's house!!!

HG-R's only check was detecting the rattle of the steel ball inside the round against a background of an apparently busy set and people shouting in her earpiece. Everyone is capable of making a mistake and mistakes are made far more likely when you have only one way of telling whether something is safe or not. If that is the case then perhaps each round should be checked by two people rather than one?

 

[Marantz4250b]

Oh, I might add, if the Sheriff's Office was unable to determine where that live round came from, you can expect the criminal defense teams to jump on that. It is VERY important!

It most certainly is. The other important thing is that the gun was out of the control and sight of the armourer when this event took place. That surely makes it possible that it may have been messed with whilst out of her control? It will be interesting to know for how long that was the case. Although I have no idea as to why anyone would do that.

My money is still on the live round being in the box of dummies she got from elsewhere, to be honest.

 

[Endlesswander]

It most certainly is. The other important thing is that the gun was out of the control and sight of the armourer when this event took place. That surely makes it possible that it may have been messed with whilst out of her control? It will be interesting to know for how long that was the case. Although I have no idea as to why anyone would do that.

My money is still on the live round being in the box of dummies she got from elsewhere, to be honest.

You could see how upset she was by what happened and she didn't try to pass the buck when the detective was suggesting someone else tampering, but she surely can't know what happened when the gun was out of her control? There are a lot of law suits flying around including the supplier of some of the ammunition, but hopefully the investigation will shed light on whether it did come from there, and it won't just be a case of charging those three and not finding the full story of how the rounds got there.

Just noticed there's a second police interview with her lawyer present, going to try and find it, be interested to hear what she says once she'd had time to actually breathe and think. All JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

It was dummy rounds she thought she had put in, not blanks.

To be fair to her, after watching her full police interview rather than just selected highlights, I get the distinct impression that she simply made a mistake rather than being willfully or grossly negligent. She didn't seem to give any impression that she didn't care and even specifically said that she was responsible for the firearms safety. She's not trying to shirk her responsibility, as far as that interview goes.

I agree that she comes over as rather inexperienced with firearms. I don't get the impression that she has any great experience of actually using firearms other than as movie props so isn't particularly knowledgeable about actually shooting them. Her comments about "...mostly only shooting .22's..." and not being able to recognise the .45 bullet pulled from Souza's shoulder the police showed her are evidence to that.

I'd still love to know where the live round came from. I suspect that it was in the box of "dummies" before she even got it, though. Which is another point about being a professional armourer; speaking personally, if dummy rounds were being used and I was the armourer then every single dummy round would be made by me personally and kept under my personal custody. The whole point of dummies is that they look identical to real ammo and so present a very real danger of being mixed up with real ones.

At around 53:10, HGR says she isn’t usually directly in the room because they don’t think it’s necessary.

 

[Betty P]

It most certainly is. The other important thing is that the gun was out of the control and sight of the armourer when this event took place. That surely makes it possible that it may have been messed with whilst out of her control? It will be interesting to know for how long that was the case. Although I have no idea as to why anyone would do that.

My money is still on the live round being in the box of dummies she got from elsewhere, to be honest.

I think its very unusual that the Sheriff's Office doesn't seem to be interested in that part of the investigation.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I think its very unusual that the Sheriff's Office doesn't seem to be interested in that part of the investigation.

The unusual is often usual in New Mexico ;-)

 

[Eli9]

Gutierrez-Reed's lawyer, Jason Bowles, told TMZ his client was 'stretched too thin' and had asked for more time to focus on her armorer duties, but was 'denied' it and never called back into the church by the assistant director David Halls to properly instruct Baldwin on how to handle the weapon.

'Hannah was not called back into that church. She asked David Halls specifically: "If Baldwin is going to use that gun, then call me back into that church, so I can instruct him on the usage of the gun, I can reinspect that gun, and I can tell him where to point it, and work with him on it."

'She was never called back in,' Bowles lamented.

Rust armorer 'was stretched too thin' on set, her lawyer claims

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's lawyer, Jason Bowles, said his client was 'stretched too thin' and had asked for more time to focus on her armorer duties but was denied.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Cool Cats]

Gutierrez-Reed's lawyer, Jason Bowles, told TMZ his client was 'stretched too thin' and had asked for more time to focus on her armorer duties, but was 'denied' it and never called back into the church by the assistant director David Halls to properly instruct Baldwin on how to handle the weapon.

'Hannah was not called back into that church. She asked David Halls specifically: "If Baldwin is going to use that gun, then call me back into that church, so I can instruct him on the usage of the gun, I can reinspect that gun, and I can tell him where to point it, and work with him on it."

'She was never called back in,' Bowles lamented.

Rust armorer 'was stretched too thin' on set, her lawyer claims

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's lawyer, Jason Bowles, said his client was 'stretched too thin' and had asked for more time to focus on her armorer duties but was denied.

www.dailymail.co.uk

First I heard of this, it would have to be verified by Halls. If Halls won't verify it I bet they will say he doesn't remember.

Sounds made up to cover her A@#. If true, I believe we would have heard this before.

Would like to hear Hall's version.

 

[Dotta]

Charging documents in full

Read Alex Baldwin's involuntary manslaughter charging documents

Alec Baldwin, 64, was officially charged with involuntary manslaughter on Tuesday, in connection with the October 2021 shooting of camerawoman Halyna Hutchins on the set of his film.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[shotgun09]

Charging documents in full

Read Alex Baldwin's involuntary manslaughter charging documents

Alec Baldwin, 64, was officially charged with involuntary manslaughter on Tuesday, in connection with the October 2021 shooting of camerawoman Halyna Hutchins on the set of his film.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The descriptions in the charging document are so damning, IMO. The whole set of Rust productions read like an old episode of The Three Stooges, between Halls, Reed and Baldwin's utter carelessness and negligence.
What a disaster!

 

[deugirtni]

Alec Baldwin's first court appearance for involuntary manslaughter charges has been scheduled for February 24.
..
Baldwin and Gutierrez-Reed to appear by videoconference before Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer (pictured)
..
Prosecutors will forgo a grand jury and rely on a judge to determine if there is sufficient evidence to move toward trial. That decision could take up to 60 days and involve trail-like hearings to consider witness testimony and evidence.
...
The probably cause affidavit is divided into two sections. One notes Baldwin's actions as the lead actor, and another notes his role as the film's primary producer.

One one hand prosecutors say he was carless in handing the gun as an actor, on the other they say that as a producer he was responsible for overseeing a safe set.

Dealing with those roles separately will allow them to fall back on one if the other is successfully defended in court.

Alec Baldwin will appear in court on February 24

Alec Baldwin's first court appearance for involuntary manslaughter charges after he shot a cinematographer on set has been scheduled for February 24.

www.dailymail.co.uk