Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #2

[Conductor71]

Conductor, did you ever answer the question about why you seemed to believe MH body was moved at some point. I have been unable to locate a single source or rumor that stated this.

I started to and had to get back to real life for awhile.

I did not intend to start any rumors; enough of those flying around as it is. By "moved" I meant brought there with planning. The site was not a typical "dump site". It required forethought and specialized knowledge of terrain.

Detective Capuzzo: The investigator told reporters that behavioral specialists have analyzed the location. They believe the location would have been too risky for someone not familiar with the area to dump a body.

"There's always the risk of getting stuck in the mud or getting hung up in a fence and leaving something behind."

http://www.wsls.com/story/20838673/state-police-retrace-steps-in-morgan-harrington-case


Dan Harrington added, "The farm area is very isolated and remote so it's not a place that someone just pulled off the road and dumped Morgan's body. It's a place that was known by this person."

http://www.nbc29.com/story/18747242/help-save-the-next-girl-volunteers-canvass-north-garden

Even getting close to that pasture by car required trespassing multiple properties. Walking directly to that spot was necessary, and it required scaling barbed wire fence or traversing a creek. No groomed trails.

I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary or any one source asserting that she was not brought or moved to that location. Maybe I missed that. If you have any sources, please share.

 

[Ixchel13]

According to the decomposition formula, 35 days seems too fast for the body to be completely skeletonized.

Who else could it be?

Alexis--and he's the guy with "cornrows". If he had his hair back in a ponytail, maybe a witness misnamed them.

 

[margarita25]

That's my feeling. IMO they are looking at this site as a large potential crime scene with multiple victims over time. It's very possible that the place the dogs hit on that they were to start digging this weekend is very different from where yesterday's remains were found, and now they want to follow up on the dog hits as well, maybe they'll get a two-fer this weekend.

Maybe they found 2 sets of remains from the same person? In Amy Ahonen's case, she had remains found in 2 different counties (she had been in the river though, and there was massing flooding in Colorado).

Just a thought...

 

[Just K]

This is slightly off topic, but does anyone know if Cassandra Morton had her shirt when they found her body?

or hair?

 

[RubyRed]

I've been reading here for years but only recently registered and this is my very first post.

I know this is extremely unlikely, because JM seems.. not so intelligent (IMO).. but is it possible that he could have dumped Hannah elsewhere but placed her pants next to where the most recent (alleged to be) skeletonized body was found? Maybe to throw LE off a bit.. if this body DOES happen to belong to another victim. I know it's very unlikely, but it just popped into my head while scrolling through this thread.

Welcome! That is a good theory!

 

[margarita25]

Alexis--and he's the guy with "cornrows". If he had his hair back in a ponytail, maybe a witness misnamed them.

But then how did AM's phone, hair, lip ring end up in RAT's trailer? The only thing that could explain this is that RAT and JM knew each other which I think is definitely possible. It's crazy how these cases seem to overlap in so many ways...

I definitely want to discuss a possible link between RAT and JM more, but I don't think we are allowed to do so here, unless any rules have changed since the discovery of the remains... Is there a specific thread for this? TIA.

 

[justwannahelp]

2680 Old Lynchburg Road is across the street from the park entrance
https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...0x89b3833723d29911:0xfd79edd20d83c105!6m1!1e1

 

[margarita25]

Can we get a side by side of the 2 orange cars that have popped up so far? TIA!!!

 

[ksj3]

But then how did AM's phone, hair, lip ring end up in RAT's trailer? The only thing that could explain this is that RAT and JM knew each other.

I definitely want to discuss a possible link between RAT and JM more, but I don;t think we are allowed to do so here, unless any rules have changed snce the discovery of the remains... Is there a specific thread for this? TIA.

The RAT thread. That's been made clear from the beginning.

 

[Mimimak]

Cursory reading on the web regarding decomp rates of a human body in the elements indicate anywhere from 2 weeks to a year to fully skeletonize. Depends on a variety of factors obviously. Still could be Hannah, IMHO.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://www.whsv.com/home/headlines/Hannah-Graham-Case-Developments-279726932.html?device=tablet&c=y

I am not sure if this has been posted...


But it states the remains was found in a wooded area inside the Walnut Creek Park... Along a road JM frequented...

JMO...

 

[margarita25]

Any chance he brought his dog out there?

(Ok, my mind is going places I not only don't want it to go, but places that might be totally crazy. Might be time for a break here).

 

[MtnLaur]

Or some animals and/or carrion birds got to the body. It's amazing how they can pick a body clean very quickly if that is their focus.

I have to admit, I'm a little confused....there are so many variables which could affect the decomp rate of a body. Large mammals and especially all the different types of vultures each adapted to various stages of decomposition....but why then did the renowned ME, (Chandra Levy, DC sniper) apparently not factor that in? Or if he did, he still discounts it. He basically says: too early!!

ETA: I still think it is Hannah, but why would he be so adamant about the "early" skeletonization?:

 

[VA Investigator]

We now have multiple local neighbors and multiple local reporters saying the location of the remains found where at 3193 address. Can we kill the Walnut Park theory because its becoming confusing to everyone trying to keep up.

View attachment 61701

 

[Kaylas]

From the descriptions given, most of us were thinking the same. Missing hair is especially a puzzle to me.

I have read about the body farm in TENN. Bodies left exposed to the elements decompose at faster rates if the daily avg. temp is 75 degrees or higher. Body bloat begins at 72 hours or 4 days. Hair is detached from the scalp anywhere from 5 to 10 days. There are steps described and how forensic labs determine time of death. Below describes a body exposed the the elements. Hopefully it is not too graphic. bloat. Skin becomes marbled looking in appearance; necrosis has set in on all tissues. Gasses have built up in the body cavity. The skin ruptures. Insects have access, eggs are laid, hatch and begin to feed on the body's tissues. Bug activity, typically confined to natural orifices and masses under the skin, causes the skin to slip and hair to detach from the skin. Bug feeding, and the accumulation of gases within the body, eventually leads to post-mortem skin ruptures which will then further allow purging of gases and fluids into the surrounding environment. Ruptures in the skin allow oxygen to re-enter the body and provide more surface area for the development of fly larvae and the activity of aerobic microorganisms. The purging of gases and fluids results in the strong odors associated with decay. The next stage is Active Decay../ dry decay; skeleton.

 

[Hiandmighty]

BBM:



"The remains were found on an abandoned property deep into the woods, along a road that Jesse Matthew allegedly walked frequently."

Interesting.

Would that be the bike path someone mentioned earlier?

 

[VA Investigator]

I swear these orange cars popping up everywhere on these satellite map images is like a bad case of Where's Waldo...

What amazing coincidences/ luck (and so eerie) if he was captured via google mapping!!!)

The reason we keep seeing what looks like orange cars are actually more red in color. The google earth color is not 100% accurate in those shots. If you look around the area in the google earth there is lots of orange looking things that are probably actually more of a red color IMO

 

[ILOKAL]

Call me crazy, but is it remotely possible that searchers have in fact found remains of two bodies and managed to keep one under wraps so far? Maybe one found behind the 3193 address that many feel of us, including me, has been reported accurately, and the other at the location nearer the park that Otto keeps referencing? If they have managed to keep the press away somewhat, could they have pulled this off?? I don't really believe it is possible, and there is NOTHING to indicate this has happened, but just kinda throwing it out there for thoughts....

It's hard to know what, but from the photos Otto has shown us, something clearly seems to have been going on near the entrance to or in the park itself.

 

[margarita25]

The RAT thread. That's been made clear from the beginning.

Which RAT thread...he has his own whole sub forum with numerus threads...I meant a specific thread which discusses possible links between JM and RAT.

Jeez, no need to be snarky about it, ksj3 :wave:
Do you have a link to the specific RAT thread you speak of? TIA

 

[galaxygal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition#Factors_affecting_decomposition

/paste
The speed at which decomposition occurs varies greatly. Factors such as temperature, humidity, and the season of death all determine how fast a fresh body will skeletonize or mummify. A basic guide for the effect of environment on decomposition is given as Casper's Law (or Ratio): if all other factors are equal, then, when there is free access of air a body decomposes twice as fast than if immersed in water and eight times faster than if buried in earth. Ultimately, the rate of bacterial decomposition acting on the tissue will be depend upon the temperature of the surroundings. Colder temperatures decrease the rate of decomposition while warmer temperatures increase it.

The most important variable is a body's accessibility to insects, particularly flies. On the surface in tropical areas, invertebrates alone can easily reduce a fully fleshed corpse to clean bones in under two weeks...

/end paste

I feel it's highly probable, it's Hannah