Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #3

[SweetT]

He had his orange car from Sat p.m. when she was last seen until the following Friday when LE retrieved it. Then he went to police station the day after on Sat the 20th in sister's car. IIRC

Plenty of time to destroy evidence, hit the car wash/vacum etc etc etc.

 

[ksj3]

Yes, but I believe, that LE has a plan for this man. They are charging him with what they want to charge him with for the time being, they are trying to make things stick, if you know what I mean? They're crossing their T's and dotting their I's so to speak.

Oh, no doubt! But, for many reasons, I think any assault (other than maybe a knock-out punch) occurred outside the vehicle. FWIW.

 

[MJPeony]

No, but I'd think (and I'm not a lawyer), that if they had evidence of great blood loss in the car, for example, they would have brought murder charges to the table, not abduction charges. Someone (Coy?) did speak to "voluminous" evidence in the car. Still no murder charges, or even assault charges.

But where are we going with this anyway? Oh, I remember (sorry, tired) to hope that any assault happened in the house for there to be "voluminous" physical evidence remaining there.

BBM

I'm not a lawyer, so I could be way off, but it doesn't seem like they could levy murder charges on blood in the car only (?). Without a body. So I'm really really hopeful that the discovery, if HG, will bring the new charges. I.e. that they only needed the body and don't have to wait on tons more evidence.

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
Since we have read that the bones were scattered I wonder if it is like in Caylee's case and they are trying to piece the bones back together and have missing pieces and are telling the investigators which bones are missing. The investigators could be searching for more remains. Didn't it take 3 weeks when they searched for as much of Caylee as they could find?

Although I don't think this is a long period of time especially in the condition she was found in. Didn't it take four days for them to announce it was Morgan when she was found?

I wonder if it's so complicated because they are finding extra bones/ another set and having to sort them out. Horrible thought, but I think if the body had been found intact as the Chesterfield searcher described, they would nearly be finished with their search, especially with all the many police there combing the area.

<BBM for Focus>

Ocean, since the house and cottage located on this property was vacant for much of the last four years, it would be logical to conclude that recidivist sexual predator; JM, had used this safe haven in the past for his evil, deviant, and heinous crimes against humanity, imo.. The first rule of public safety; 'plan for the worst and hope for the best'.. jmo

Phoebeb's, imo CSI investigators are going through the interiors of the structures<including attics & basement>, and searching the entire grounds of the property and beyond with a fine tooth comb.. Due to the recent leafs falling and blanketing the forest floor, inclement weather and rainfall, this could interfere and hamper a thorough search, imo..The creek/branch will also have to be searched downstream for possible evidence; clothes, remains, etc.. due to heavy rainfalls and flash flooding..imo

Imo, JM would have likely taken advantage of the structure/s; house and cottage, during the hours of darkness without fear of interruption from LE, neighbors, or others.. The structures would have provided shelter from rainy or frigid weather.. Imo, JM is a mixed offender and would have pre-planned the abduction/s, had an abduction kit in his vehicle, and the structure/s would have likely contained a kill kit which included clean up supplies, zip ties/ligatures, headlamp, etc., and possibly an area in one of the structures for temporarily securing his victim/s.. jmo

Never missunderestimate a psychopathic sexual predator/serialkiller, as is JM. JM had honed his skills for years and possibly over a decade, escalating his deviant behavior with each unsuspecting innocent victim taken.... Psychopaths are soulless and very creative, calculating, deflective, and manipulative.. They will fool even the most experienced homicide investigators...

"There is no one who knows me &#8211; or who has ever known me &#8211; who knows anything about me, really... They're going to tell you something that does not line up with anything I tell you because I'm two different people basically." Quote by AK serial killer Israel Keyes..

 

[possumheart]

I don't quite know why the property was referred to as out of a horror set, the pics from the zillow listing don't look that bad. I have seen worse...nothing a good pressure washing and water sealant can't fix on the exterior wood. Unless the property has changed dramatically since the listing expired in July.
I am more curious as to how JM may have known the property was vacant. Not sure why it was called abandoned as it does have an owner....

I thought the reference was more to the house crawling with police being like something out of a horror movie.

 

[Phoebeb]

Also JLM a was planning to move. Perhaps he or a friend rented this house. Just thinking out loud.

Yikes, or had looked at it and knew it was vacant... He probably made mental notes of "good" spots to take these girls if he was a serial attacker on the prowl. Shudder.

 

[FindHG]

It was posted a couple pages back. One of the neighbors said that after she heard about Morgan and the taxi, she wondered if Jesse was responsible. She did not report anything at any time.

Context. Sounded to me more like she wished she had put it together.

 

[MJPeony]

Plenty of time to destroy evidence, hit the car wash/vacum etc etc etc.

Oh, but the pics showed that car to be filthy! (my car is cannot boast a ton better, but I dare say it isn't nearly as bad as his) I don't think he went to the car wash or attempted much cleaning.

 

[Heroine]

Oh, no doubt! But, for many reasons, I think any assault (other than maybe a knock-out punch) occurred outside the vehicle. FWIW.

Yeah it's possible. I mean as we think we can see(?? Not sure yet because they havent said yet if its HG) but anyway as we can see he had her in a very remote place so it is very possible that he didn't bother to do anything to her until then. I see what you're saying.

 

[ksj3]

BBM

I'm not a lawyer, so I could be way off, but it doesn't seem like they could levy murder charges on blood in the car only (?). Without a body. So I'm really really hopeful that the discovery, if HG, will bring the new charges. I.e. that they only needed the body and don't have to wait on tons more evidence.

I didn't follow the case, so anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding with the recent RAT case is he was able to be charged with murder without a body due to the amount of the victim's blood found on (his?) shirt; as it was decided with that amount of blood loss she couldn't have survived (at least not without immediate medical treatment).

That's the second case I know of in the greater Charlottesville area of someone being found guilty of murder without a body. The other was of a 12-year-old girl who went missing in the early 1980's. She has yet to be found.

 

[LarkBunting]

I so hope & pray that Hannah was very out of it & not fully cognizant of what was happening to her. I do hope he drugged her, as has been hypothesized, so that she would have gone unconscious or, at least, gone very fuzzy, in & out of consciousness, until it was all over.
It hurts my heart to imagine her fear & suffering. Why? 18 innocent, short years old. She had so much life ahead of her.

 

[MJPeony]

I didn't follow the case, so anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding with the recent RAT case is he was able to be charged with murder without a body due to the amount of the victim's blood found on (his?) shirt; as it was decided with that amount of blood loss she couldn't have survived (at least not without immediate medical treatment).

That's the second case I know of in the greater Charlottesville area of someone being found guilty of murder without a body. The other was of a 12-year-old girl who went missing in the early 1980's. She has yet to be found.

Oh, interesting. I did not follow the RAT case at all, so thanks for that- had no idea. That's really horrible that there was so much blood loss that they were able to conclude that Terrible.

 

[Heroine]

I didn't follow the case, so anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding with the recent RAT case is he was able to be charged with murder without a body due to the amount of the victim's blood found on (his?) shirt; as it was decided with that amount of blood loss she couldn't have survived (at least not without immediate medical treatment).

That's the second case I know of in the greater Charlottesville area of someone being found guilty of murder without a body. The other was of a 12-year-old girl who went missing in the early 1980's. She has yet to be found.

I think that's right and I also think they used some circumstantial stuff. I think the main thing was the blood, her fingernails and hair extentions in his camper wrapped up in his shirt with her blood on it under his bed. Her phone was near by too.
I did follow the case for most of the time.

 

[Soulmagent]

No, but I'd think (and I'm not a lawyer), that if they had evidence of great blood loss in the car, for example, they would have brought murder charges to the table, not abduction charges. Someone (Coy?) did speak to "voluminous" evidence in the car. Still no murder charges, or even assault charges.

But where are we going with this anyway? Oh, I remember (sorry, tired) to hope that any assault happened in the house for there to be "voluminous" physical evidence remaining there.

If they had found anything like that in the car he would have been arrested and help the day they took his car.They didnt have a reason to hold him,and they were looking for one. I think her shoes were in the car.

 

[FindHG]

I thought the reference was more to the house crawling with police being like something out of a horror movie.

Sounded to me like she said none of the renters stuck around for long. Not kept up, like a horror movie set.

 

[themom]

I so hope & pray that Hannah was very out of it & not fully cognizant of what was happening to her. I do hope he drugged her, as has been hypothesized, so that she would have gone unconscious or, at least, gone very fuzzy, in & out of consciousness, until it was all over.
It hurts my heart to imagine her fear & suffering. Why? 18 innocent, short years old. She had so much life ahead of her.

It is a really disgusting and heinous act. Hannah seemed to be an amazing woman with a lot of promise ahead. It would be horrendous no matter whom, of course. HG just seems like an innocent, smart, sweet, funny "cute as a button" girl with an intelligent and loving family. I can look at her and see that she was going to have an amazing life .

 

[Soulmagent]

I didn't follow the case, so anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding with the recent RAT case is he was able to be charged with murder without a body due to the amount of the victim's blood found on (his?) shirt; as it was decided with that amount of blood loss she couldn't have survived (at least not without immediate medical treatment).

That's the second case I know of in the greater Charlottesville area of someone being found guilty of murder without a body. The other was of a 12-year-old girl who went missing in the early 1980's. She has yet to be found.

The amount of blood was not so great that it would prove Alexis was murdered.It was the total of his case that lead the jury to the conclusion RAT had murdered her. As it is the only conclusion to be reasonably had.

Could Alexis be alive ? Yes she could be,but if RAT didnt kill her why did he tell all the lies ,and not one of those accounted for bloodloss ,or ripped off nails or pulled out hair or a broken phone.
The jury was also not allowed to know of RAT's past with Samantha Clarks case.

 

[Phoebeb]

I can't seem to post a picture here, but I went back and looked at JM's car when it was impounded and it looks like the front left tie and rim has plenty of red clay (either that or rust)

 

[Ghostwheel]

I don't quite know why the property was referred to as out of a horror set, the pics from the zillow listing don't look that bad. I have seen worse...nothing a good pressure washing and water sealant can't fix on the exterior wood. Unless the property has changed dramatically since the listing expired in July.
I am more curious as to how JM may have known the property was vacant. Not sure why it was called abandoned as it does have an owner....

BBM: People sometimes confuse abandoned with vacant. On the other hand, the description might mean no one has lived in it or maintained it for years. Abandoned can mean "to cease from maintaining, practicing, or using". If JM used the area for dumping a body before, he might have checked for listings of properties for sale.

 

[sreshowtime]

The house looks fine to me. I've seen much much worse around here. I referred to it as a house of horror as someone or a group of people using it to harm women.

I apologize I didn't mean anyone here calling it that,I should have referenced this article-
http://wtvr.com/2014/10/20/land-where-remains-found-in-hannah-graham-search-like-horror-movie-set/