Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[jbowman55]

Thank you! I still can't find the segment from CNN that there was another call in - still looking.

This is just my MOO. If HG was buried in a shallow grave and the rains un-earthed her the neighbors could have smelled something but with a wind,rain and animals/birds/vultures - no more smell after a while .

Buzzards/vultures don't normally go for anything "fresh" but are guided by other groups of animals. Then they circle and then get closer, smell the de-comp and chase off any competition.

Sorry graphic.

Here's the link to The Situation Room episode talking about buzzards reported on Sept 30:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1410/21/sitroom.01.html

This guy says he didn't get out of his vehicle. His name is included in the report.

Then, here's the Inside C'ville report on buzzards on Oct 6:

http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-where-hannah-was-found/

This guy says he walked the property briefly. His name is not given.

Sounds like two different reports to me. Imo.

 

[passionflower]

I was reading on another thread and a gag order came up in a discussion.
IF a gag order is on for the victims ID then no one can discuss anything including the ID
of the victim, the family can be told but will keep it silent to co-operate with LE til the trial,
true???? I do not know.

 

[DizzyB]

From the moment that remains were found, everything feels "off". One would think that LE would have immediately debriefed SO so that details woud not have been made public. No skull, pants, vertebrae. We still don't know what was found in JM's car, and that's okay with me. It's all about building the case. Now, I don't understand the delay with the ID. It's not like there is going to be a press conference-LE said they will release a written statement when they know and have notified. If the SO was telling the truth, they should know by now. There might be a bombshell with other remains as well, so what are the possibilities? The remains are not Hannah but they are reviewing additional remains from the surrounding area? There's a bombshell that they want to issue a statement on, when they know exactly how many victims they are dealing with?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I was reading on another thread and a gag order came up in a discussion.
IF a gag order is on for the victims ID then no one can discuss anything including the ID
of the victim, the family can be told but will keep it silent to co-operate with LE til the trial,
true???? I do not know.

I haven't heard anything about a gag order. Was the discussion about a gag order in this case, or about gag orders in general?

From my experience following crime, the gag order wouldn't pertain to basic facts like the identity of the victim. However it would prevent LE, attorneys, etc., from speaking to the media about the case.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Here's the link to The Situation Room episode talking about buzzards reported on Sept 30:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1410/21/sitroom.01.html

This guy says he didn't get out of his vehicle. His name is included in the report.


Then, here's the Inside C'ville report on buzzards on Oct 6:

This guy says he walked the property briefly. His name is not given.

Sounds like two different reports to me. Imo.

Sorry jbowman ~ I think you omitted the Inside C'ville link?

 

[Zuri]

Yes and in the videos Hannah appeared to have very long legs.

This is where I had problems with the Sheriff Sergeant's description of remains. IIRC, he described the vertebrae being consistent with a tall person. The femurs appeared to be responsible for HG height more than her torso and neck (spine). IMO

 

[ksj3]

Yik Yak is an anonymous social media app. It is available for iOS and Android and it allows people to anonymously create and view posts within a 1.5 mile radius[citation needed] depending on how many other users are nearby. It differs from other anonymous sharing apps such as PostSecret and Whisper in that it is intended for sharing primarily with those in close proximity to the user, potentially making it more intimate and relevant for people reading the posts.[1] All users have the ability to contribute to the stream by writing, responding, and up voting or down voting yaks.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yik_yak


,

Yik Yak!!! OMG. This is a perp's dream. Is there any way to see what was posted that night?

If she was "yik yaking" that she was lost....Where is this? Where am I? Where are you? How do I get here? What time does the Safe Ride pick up here? What time does the bus route stop running? What's the quickest way to that stop?

What better way for JM to figure out that 1) she's lost 2) she's distressed and 3) she could use a friendly cabbie to give her a ride where she needs to go. He could even let her know that. And then meet her, put his arm around her, and say, "Hey! I'm the friendly cabbie you've been yik yaking with. Where you headed? Let's go get a drink first. You've been walking quite a while! You must be thirsty!"

:gaah: KIDS - PLEASE DO NOT USE YIK YAK!

 

[leilarose68]

From the moment that remains were found, everything feels "off". One would think that LE would have immediately debriefed SO so that details woud not have been made public. No skull, pants, vertebrae. We still don't know what was found in JM's car, and that's okay with me. It's all about building the case. Now, I don't understand the delay with the ID. It's not like there is going to be a press conference-LE said they will release a written statement when they know and have notified. If the SO was telling the truth, they should know by now. There might be a bombshell with other remains as well, so what are the possibilities? The remains are not Hannah but they are reviewing additional remains from the surrounding area? There's a bombshell that they want to issue a statement on, when they know exactly how many victims they are dealing with?

yeah. i think it's because there are possibly multiple victims or it's just a really complex crime scene, and longo being so precise and a perfectionist wants all of the details of the scene before he shares any of them. WE the public, aren't the priority here. and we shouldn't be. HG's parents were informed and LE is working extremely hard on the case and that's what matters.

 

[thistle]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NJqUN9TClM

Prayers for these girls families.

 

[Pacific2011]

She actually was not alive and well on Saturday night; she disappeared in the early morning (approx. 1:30am) Saturday, and was reported missing on Sunday.

You're right. . . .my mistake!

 

[Foxfire]

yeah. i think it's because there are multiple victims, and longo being so precise and a perfectionist wants all of the details of the scene before he shares any of them. WE the public, aren't the priority here. and we shouldn't be. the parents were informed and they're working on the case and that's what matters.

<BBM for Focus>

CPD Chief Tim Longo is not the lead in the death investigation. Albemarle County Police Department Colonel Steve Sellers is now the lead. Imo, ACPD leadership subscribes to the antiquated investigative silence strategy of media management. This investigation is far from over, imo. It is likely going to be a marathon and not a sprint.. As CPD Chief Tim Longo stated, "the ensuing investigation is going to be complex"..

http://www.albemarle.org/department.asp?department=police&relpage=3236
The mission of the Albemarle County Police Department is to provide for the safety and security of our many diverse citizens and communities while protecting individual rights and delivering quality services.

In 2012, the ACPD began the transition to Geographic Policing with the goal of working more closely with our citizens to address crime, traffic safety and resolve community issues.

Wait continues for forensic results on remains in Hannah Graham case; search ongoing for more clues
By The Associated Press, ABC 7 News, Tom Roussey October 21, 2014

Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/1...raham-investigation-108294.html#ixzz3H1gYs7b5
Follow us: @ABC7News on Twitter | WJLATV on Facebook

 

[passionflower]

I haven't heard anything about a gag order. Was the discussion about a gag order in this case, or about gag orders in general?

From my experience following crime, the gag order wouldn't pertain to basic facts like the identity of the victim. However it would prevent LE, attorneys, etc., from speaking to the media about the case.

just in general...........

 

[gliving]

The black pants of a 6 foot tall person and a 4'9" person would be significantly different in size as well.

True that. But if the pants were bunched in a pile of leaves, it might be hard to tell the difference.

 

[MaggieMoo]

There were a few games that were within 2 or 3 days of when a girl went missing. Also, I wanted to check the CNU schedule against missing cases, However, I could only find the schedules for 2007-present.

 

[StormyNights]

Yik Yak!!! OMG. This is a perp's dream. Is there any way to see what was posted that night?

If she was "yik yaking" that she was lost....Where is this? Where am I? Where are you? How do I get here? What time does the Safe Ride pick up here? What time does the bus route stop running? What's the quickest way to that stop?

What better way for JM to figure out that 1) she's lost 2) she's distressed and 3) she could use a friendly cabbie to give her a ride where she needs to go. He could even let her know that. And then meet her, put his arm around her, and say, "Hey! I'm the friendly cabbie you've been yik yaking with. Where you headed? Let's go get a drink first. You've been walking quite a while! You must be thirsty!"

:gaah: KIDS - PLEASE DO NOT USE YIK YAK!

OMG! This FREAKS me right out! My kids are 13, 12 and 10. All with phones. I just checked all of them and that app isn't on there, thank goodness! Yikes!!

 

[chipmunk]

This is not a new story but it has a statement I haven't seen voiced as strongly about the ID : http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/19/hannah-graham-remains-found/17587661/

Forensics expert Arden says "I'm highly concerned that these may be the remains of a different person because in this kind of climate, it commonly takes six to nine months and sometimes longer for a body to skeletonize essentially completely." That if DNA is used forensics could take weeks. With dental records ID can be made in hours.

So if the skull is really in as bad a shape as one reports indicates they may have to use DNA without dental ID. But as far as it being HG at least we've heard from other info posted already the vertebrae bone is long and consistent with a tall person.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I hope this isn't off topic because I'm not sure what thread it would belong in, but the more I think about it, what a perfect victim lure a cab would be for a predator like JM.

I've taken many a cab in my time and it never occurred to me that the driver might be a threat to me (apart from the scary driving, of course lol). I guess had I even thought about it, I would have assumed cab drivers would have had to go through some kind of background check.

Back in the day when I lived in NYC, I took cabs all the time late at night when that would seem to be safer than the subway. If I was tired or ahem had been imbibing, I would have had no hesitation in leaning my head back and drowsing, just expecting that I would be taken to where I had asked to be taken to, paying no attention to where the driver was actually going.

I can easily envision Hannah as having this same mindset. If he gave her some kind of line about taking her home in his cab he would have seemed much more trustworthy than just some random creepy guy hitting on her. Maybe she left Tempo with him thinking they were going to his cab but then he overpowered her some way before she saw the actual orange car, and that was it.

And then of course Morgan--in her situation a cab that suddenly appeared would have seemed like a godsend.

 

[SteveP]

This is not a new story but it has a statement I haven't seen voiced as strongly about the ID : http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/19/hannah-graham-remains-found/17587661/

Forensics expert Arden says "I'm highly concerned that these may be the remains of a different person because in this kind of climate, it commonly takes six to nine months and sometimes longer for a body to skeletonize essentially completely." That if DNA is used forensics could take weeks. With dental records ID can be made in hours.

So if the skull is really in as bad a shape as one reports indicates they may have to use DNA without dental ID. But as far as it being HG at least we've heard from other info posted already the vertebrae bone is long and consistent with a tall person.

BBM...Do you have a link to any report that indicated the skull was in bad shape? IIRC, the sergeant who made the discovery said it did not appear damaged in any way (though I don't put a lot of faith in what he was actually able to discern about what he saw)

 

[Foxfire]

Interesting.. VA can use Familial DNA in special circumstances..

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/s...cle_65c19914-6b03-55b5-b686-73cbaf141ab5.html

Virginia News
CRIME SOLVING - August 19/2013

State confirms arrest resulting from familial DNA search
Details aren&#8217;t being released at the request of local authorities

Under Department of Forensic Science policy, familial searching is performed only to help solve violent crimes in which public safety remains at risk, other investigative leads have been exhausted, and a chief law enforcement officer makes the request.
Without specifying the type of crimes, Brad Jenkins, program manager of the department&#8217;s forensic biology section, said last week that there were several cases linked together by DNA that appeared to have been the work of the same unknown suspect.
&#8220;We conducted a familial search and came up with a possible relative &#8230; of the perpetrator. Police did their investigation and we did additional DNA (testing) and a person was arrested,&#8221; said Jenkins, who added that the trial is pending.

Unlike traditional searches that seek exact DNA profile matches, familial searches comb offender databases for near-matches of people who might be a parent, child or sibling of a suspect who left DNA at a crime scene, but whose DNA profile is not yet in a database.
Close to half of the people incarcerated in the United States report they had a close family member who had also been locked up and, presumably, their DNA profiles are also in databases.

 

[rsbryswrrl]

True that. But if the pants were bunched in a pile of leaves, it might be hard to tell the difference.

I thought this as well. And the pants of a 4'9" person may well look like the *tight* pants of a 6 foot tall person.