Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[ksj3]

You may want to clarify that your quotes are your speculation - otherwise people may think they are quotes you saw through the app somehow.

Done. Thank you.

ETA: Would you delete my quote from your post, so that doesn't get seen and carried forward? Didn't mean to open a can of worms through speculation!

 

[Heroine]

Neal Augenstein ‏@AugensteinWTOP 29m29 minutes ago

Jim Camblos says he'll defend #JesseMatthew in 2005 Fairfax rape, won't say why he changed his mind from 2 days ago. #HannahGraham
0 replies 0 retweets 1 favorite
:discuss:

 

[ksj3]

Yes, I totally thought that. ksj3, please clarify I was freaking out for a second.

Edited. Thanks. Didn't realize.

But that does show you how frightening that app could be, if used that way, since it freaked you out and isn't even happening!

And these kids just really have no idea how technology is used by bad people, even when good people use it the right way. They think they're so safe and so free and empowered. Too often, it can be just the opposite.

 

[Soulmagent]

You may want to clarify that your quotes are your speculation - otherwise people may think they are quotes you saw through the app somehow.

Ha! good thing I read the thread backwards!.hehe

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Regarding the buzzards/vultures/skeletonization:

I've followed many a crime case over the years. I've never seen any case in which skeletonization happened this quickly due to carrion birds. Maybe this is a first; I am not an expert.

Then again, maybe there is a lot more going on here than meets the eye.

Finally, I just wanted to address the bad rap the carrion birds have received in relation to this case. They are not awful or vicious creatures. They simply are following their genetics and instincts. They may seem disgusting by human standards but in reality they are nature's clean-up crew.

 

[mika_cat]

Someone posted something like this upthread, about the study of vultures at Texas State University:

"The video camera was triggered after 37 days when a 30-strong wake of American black vultures – Coragyps atratus – discovered the body and set to work consuming it. They reduced it to bones in just five hours. "

http://sciencebasedlife.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/how-long-does-it-take-for-vultures-to-eat-a-human-body/

"For more than five weeks, a woman's body lay undisturbed in a secluded Texas field. Then a frenzied flock of vultures descended on the corpse and reduced it to a skeleton within hours."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/08/forensics-study-in-texas-focuses-on-vultures/

It would appear that the vultures, having had 18 days to work at the body in this case, could have reduced it to bones in fairly short order.

I did some Googling/YouTubing re: black vultures.. I kind of wish I hadn't. I feel sick knowing what HG's lifeless body might have been subjected to.

 

[MJPeony]

This is really interesting. 5 weeks, only vultures. HG would have been subjected to buzzards, mice, river water, etc.

It's a clean skeleton. Really fast.

And, heartbreaking to imagine a human -a LIFE- could be basically erased like that.

Ghostwheel- well, that article/video certainly answers so many of the timing questions we've been batting around. Down to the 5 weeks and everything. Excellent find.

themom- BBM. My thoughts exactly as I watched and saw the photos. Sobering and honestly quite hard for my mind to grasp that she was walking around on those videos that we see, so very alive and animated. And only a month ago! And now bones. So hard to grasp.

 

[squiddy]

Does anyone know if there were there Liberty University games the days these women/girls disappeared?

11/28/13 - Jamisha Gilbert
8/3/13 - Alexis Murphy
9/06/13 - Shanea Lockwood - Fairfax, VA
12/07/13 - Margennae Dixon - Fairfax, VA
11/20/12 – DaShad Smith
11/21/11 - Lauren Renee Smith 17 – Hattiesburg, MS
9/13/10 - Samantha Clarke
10/10/09– Cassandra Morton
11/18/09 - Tawanda Latisha Hill
8/26/2006 - Quaisra Khan, Alexandria VA
10/18/03 - Rachel Nicole Good, Elkton VA
9/7/03 - Sophie May Rivera
8/29/02 - La-teasha Lamone Brooks, Farmville VA

You might consider expanding the teams from just Liberty - for example, I discovered a (tenuous) link between Covenant and the Fairfax rape location - Flint Hill school - Covenant played Flint Hill the weekend before the Fairfax attack - the varsity played in Charlottesville, but presumably the JV team played in Fairfax.

I'm >50% that's his link to Fairfax. So, following his semi-pro team and Covenant schedules may turn up some additional links to other attacks.

 

[Piaget]

Yik Yak!!! OMG. This is a perp's dream. Is there any way to see what was posted that night?

If she was "yik yaking" that she was lost....Where is this? Where am I? Where are you? How do I get here? What time does the Safe Ride pick up here? What time does the bus route stop running? What's the quickest way to that stop?

What better way for JM to figure out that 1) she's lost 2) she's distressed and 3) she could use a friendly cabbie to give her a ride where she needs to go. He could even let her know that. And then meet her, put his arm around her, and say, "Hey! I'm the friendly cabbie you've been yik yaking with. Where you headed? Let's go get a drink first. You've been walking quite a while! You must be thirsty!"

:gaah: KIDS - PLEASE DO NOT USE YIK YAK!

Scary in a similar way: Tinder

 

[ksj3]

Scary in a similar way: Tinder

No comment. :facepalm:

 

[Soulmagent]

Warning: pictures of bones

Here are some pictures of the remains the vultures picked clean in the Texas Study. Teeth are missing, bones are scattered.
http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/08/10610820-vultures-feast-on-human-corpse-in-texas-body-farm-experiment
http://www.startribune.com/nation/141898073.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/texas-body-farms-vultures_n_1330782.html

That is Texas.. it would be different in VA.
that is why they have body farms in different locations. Texas is a dry heat. Virginia is not.

The oakridge studies would be more suited for studies on vultures in VA.

 

[Heroine]

Charlottesville defense attorney Scott Goodman said Fairfax may have the strongest case against Matthew at this juncture. "I'm sure the prosecutor in Charlottesville would be happy for Fairfax to go first. If Fairfax can get a life sentence or two, or maybe even three, since there are three charges with life sentences possible, that would take some of the heat, some of the pressure off Albemarle and Charlottesville to move quickly." According to the indictment, there is DNA linking Matthew to the Fairfax attack and a witness willing to testify.

"The Charlottesville case involving Hannah Graham is a case that is going to rely almost completely on circumstantial evidence," Goodman said. "That's going to take a long time to develop. "It includes a lot of lab work, forensics... the Charlottesville case is still months, maybe even a year away from being tried."

http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlines/Prosecutors-Strategic-in-Bringing-Charges-Against-Jesse-Matthew-280238502.html
:discuss:

 

[themom]

Has there been any indication that we may hear news on HGs body tomorrow? Any leaks or "interesting" media comments?

I'm starting to thinl we will hear about the JM/AM DNA testing before HG confirmation comes through...

 

[ksj3]

Has there been any indication that we may hear news on HGs body tomorrow? Any leaks or "interesting" media comments?

I'm starting to thinl we will hear about the JM/AM DNA testing before HG confirmation comes through...

That's one thing that's interesting. There haven't been any "leaks" or "sources close to the investigation" comments since they found the remains (that I'm aware of).

That makes me believe fully that LE locally doesn't know, which means the ME doesn't know, which means it's likely not Hannah - at least not the skull they were provided initially.

There hasn't been any further comment, either, on whether any other remains found have been sent to the ME or whether any other remains have been found on their six-day search in that area.

 

[VA Investigator]

Just thinking out loud and tossing out some ideas for people to think about and get some responses.
Lets do a what if Jesse was involved with Alexis's disappearance and some things to considers.

After Morgan's abduction they said the released sketch of a African-American male linked to her and the Fairfax case. That had to rattle Jesse cage and make him very nervous wouldn't you think?
Now, if he did abduct Alexis and keep her shirt like he did with Morgan then he would definitely have a motive to go and try to set up Randy. Randy is a white man. What better way to throw everyone off the trail of ole Jesse by going back to that trailer and leaving evidence there, but not right in plain sight, but where it would only be found only during a thorough investigation.
WHAT IF, and that is a big WHAT IF, Jesse did go with Alexis to Randy's trailer. So Jesse commits his crime but later on he thinks, hmmmm I can go leave evidence back at that trailer we were just at that will then pin this on that drug addict white guy and LE will think he has been the main man possibly doing all these past abductions in Charlottesville which would then cause the trail to go cold leading back to me an African-American male who looks very similar to the sketch from Morgan and the Fairfax case. It's something to ponder in my mind.

I went back and watched and listened to those 3 part segment post interviews Randy gives after the trial and I will have to say there is some tiny part of me that does believe that there is more to Alexis story than what we were led to believe from Randy's trial.

I have always been a very good judge of a persons character my whole life, (don't get me wrong, I don't think Randy is a good person by any means), but something just seems wrong or off to me. Randy just doesn't come across as your classic stone cold killer.

Who knows..... I may be way off base but I would not be shocked at all now if in the coming weeks there is going to be more to this Randy and Alexis abduction story.

 

[themom]

That's one thing that's interesting. There haven't been any "leaks" or "sources close to the investigation" comments since they found the remains (that I'm aware of).

That makes me believe fully that LE locally doesn't know, which means the ME doesn't know, which means it's likely not Hannah - at least not the skull they were provided initially.

There hasn't been any further comment, either, on whether any other remains found have been sent to the ME or whether any other remains have been found on their six-day search in that area.

I am also starting to think the skull wasn't hers. I understand ME said they would not be prioritizing this case, and that they are backlogged a bit (someone mentioned there were 5 murders last weekend near Richmond, and they would need to manage those cases, too).

But as we've been discussing - dental records are fast. I don't think JM got rid of her teeth, although it's possible, since he was following the MH case closely (being on the Find MDHarrington FB page, for example) and could have gleaned tips on what to do differently...but have there been any unsolved missing persons bodies in the area found in the past 5 years with missing teeth?

 

[VA Investigator]

Just thinking out loud and tossing out some ideas for people to think about and get some responses.
Lets do a what if Jesse was involved with Alexis's disappearance and some things to considers.

After Morgan's abduction they said the released sketch of a African-American male linked to her and the Fairfax case. That had to rattle Jesse cage and make him very nervous wouldn't you think?
Now, if he did abduct Alexis and keep her shirt like he did with Morgan then he would definitely have a motive to go and try to set up Randy. Randy is a white man. What better way to throw everyone off the trail of ole Jesse by going back to that trailer and leaving evidence there, but not right in plain sight, but where it would only be found only during a thorough investigation.
WHAT IF, and that is a big WHAT IF, Jesse did go with Alexis to Randy's trailer. So Jesse commits his crime but later on he thinks, hmmmm I can go leave evidence back at that trailer we were just at that will then pin this on that drug addict white guy and LE will think he has been the main man possibly doing all these past abductions in Charlottesville which would then cause the trail to go cold leading back to me an African-American male who looks very similar to the sketch from Morgan and the Fairfax case. It's something to ponder in my mind.

I went back and watched and listened to those 3 part segment post interviews Randy gives after the trial and I will have to say there is some tiny part of me that does believe that there is more to Alexis story than what we were led to believe from Randy's trial.

I have always been a very good judge of a persons character my whole life, (don't get me wrong, I don't think Randy is a good person by any means), but something just seems wrong or off to me. Randy just doesn't come across as your classic stone cold killer.

Who knows..... I may be way off base but I would not be shocked at all now if in the coming weeks there is going to be more to this Randy and Alexis abduction story.

Sorry, probably the wrong thread. Was just trying to get some discussion about Jesse and other possibly victims and what his mindset would be like thinking he was no longer a suspect in previous abductions and was now getting back to his evil ways when he saw Hannah?

 

[themom]

Sorry, probably the wrong thread. Was just trying to get some discussion about Jesse and other possibly victims and what his mindset would be like thinking he was no longer a suspect in previous abductions and was now getting back to his evil ways when he saw Hannah?

Would love to discuss this on the JM RAT board!

 

[VA Investigator]

Would love to discuss this on the JM RAT board!

I put it over there but not sure if anyone was there to read it or discuss it. Just trying to stir some brain storming on this case.

 

[CoolJ]

Ok, with regards to the Sgt. estimating that the remains belonged to a tall person because it was a long vertebral column; I study human anatomy quite extensively so I decided to dig into this a little and here is forensic anthropology article:

http://www.academia.edu/4236948/Formulae_for_Estimating_Skeletal_Height_in_Modern_South-East_Asians

Now, I don't expect everyone to actually want to read through this(boring!) but in it it say " upper limb bones and trunk(vertebral column) are less preferable predictors of skeletal height in females"

So basically I don't think this officer has any kind of authority to be making these assumptions. He has no idea what the spine of a 5'11 female would look like. It is very variable as many of you have been stating. But it keeps getting brought up so I figured I would weigh in.

While I am on this topic I would just like to add that I am very skeptical of that entire interview. There is no way, under normal circumstances, an interview like that would be allowed during an open investigation. ESPECIALLY after what Longo had stated just a few hours earlier that there would be no answering of questions in the near future. I do not think that officer would be that stupid as he seemed to be a very intelligent well spoken professional. I think they allowed him to do this, maybe even was under orders to give the interview. I think LE is speaking to someone through the media, and has been since the beginning. But who could it possibly be?

IMO