Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[mirv22]

Has anyone else here considered, too, that JM may begin his activities up again in the fall when swimming at Walnut Creek Park closes down and activity around the park decreases? On the WCP website yesterday I saw that swimming is available from Memorial Day to Labor Day, except for days when Albemarle County Schools are in session.

http://www.albemarle.org/department.asp?department=parks&relpage=2744

Maybe WCP is HIS playground in the fall and winter, and he just waits for other people to get out of the way. Maybe locals can explain how much less "supervision" the park has after swimming is no longer available in the fall. I believe I have already read that the maintenance hut is unmanned then, and would also assume that the fee-taker's gatehouse would be unmanned.

No telling what they'll find. Yuck.

Speculation, all moo.

Yes, absolutely I had that same idea. Sometime early after the remains were reported found I mentioned that swimming was closed on Sept 1 this year....resulting in fewer people and less staff around. It is still super popular for mtn bikers and disc golf, but still. Hmmmm....

 

[Holliberry]

First post here but im not a newbie. I joined when Mickey Schunick went missing but forgot my login and had to create a new one. My question is, if JLM is convicted and is sentenced (which i believe he will be) does he serve the entire time sentenced before he goes to court for another crime to be sentenced again? Just wondering how that works.

 

[JohnTate90210]

Has anyone else here considered, too, that JM may begin his activities up again in the fall when swimming at Walnut Creek Park closes down and activity around the park decreases? On the WCP website yesterday I saw that swimming is available from Memorial Day to Labor Day, except for days when Albemarle County Schools are in session.

Interesting idea but from Google Street View, it appears there may be a gate right after you turn off from Old Lynchburg Road. I'd guess they lock it up after dark. I know my local parks lock them down at night.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37....d=MgBqHfjTcoXm4b2s7QxnMw&cbp=12,166.7,,0,3.98

 

[vthokies19]

First post here but im not a newbie. I joined when Mickey Schunick went missing but forgot my login and had to create a new one. My question is, if JLM is convicted and is sentenced (which i believe he will be) does he serve the entire time sentenced before he goes to court for another crime to be sentenced again? Just wondering how that works.

He will be tried for the highest crime first. The fairfax abduction/rape is the least of his worries (sadly) he will be charged with MH abduction/capital murder/rape and more than likely HG too. Those 2 carry death penalty. Fairfax will just be added on. He will continue to go to court until all his trials are complete.

 

[CallMeTres]

Hi Holliberry!

In VA, the prosecutor can choose to file charges while the defendant is incarcerated for other crimes or the prosecutor can wait or choose not to prosecute. They will generally take into account: statute of limitations (none for murder), the "quality" of the prior conviction(s) (chances of an appeal nullifying prior conviction(s), the cost of trial, mood of the general public, and the severity of the various crimes.

My sister was robbed, beaten, and technically kidnapped (dragged across county lines that ran through her employer's parking lot). The prosecutor charged for the robbery and kidnapping, leaving the assault as a back up charge. This was just after the VA Truth in Sentencing laws went into effect; he explained to us that he was not sure if the laws would eventually be overturned, so he held back on the assault charges so the bad guy could be charged near the end of the statute of limitations should it look like he would not be serving much time.

The laws stuck. Had he violated my sister three months earlier, he would have probably spent 12-15 years in prison. Because of when the crime was committed, he has to serve at least 85% (I think) of his 62 year term.

 

[Tuckersmom]

What if WCP is his normal "dumping ground"...there was a Triathlon scheduled for Sat, the 13th that he may not have been aware of and there were probably signage etc up there and he had to go to Plan B

 

[cluciano63]

I wouldn't be surprised if we continue to get updates (no matter how small) in this case for the foreseeable future. The local media has been reporting on this case constantly for the past 5 weeks...I don't think they will want to "drop" the case or stop their daily reporting of it anytime soon.

With a gag order, if one is ordered, they would not have a choice, as in Heather E.'s case. Hoping it does not happen but it could, Imo. Maybe they would be able to post about anniversarys, things like that, but not about the case. Jmo

 

[JohnTate90210]

What if WCP is his normal "dumping ground"...there was a Triathlon scheduled for Sat, the 13th that he may not have been aware of and there were probably signage etc up there and he had to go to Plan B

With the Triathlon scheduled, I wonder if there could have been activity going on all night at the park. Our local park recently had a marathon and some outside group came and setup a couple of RV's that were, I guess, kind of offices. Signing people up, drinks, numbers, etc. Assuming there was much setup the previous day, then people may have been there all night to prevent vandalism and to get last minute things setup. It looks like things got underway at 7:30 am.

http://www.charlottesvillemultisports.com/CMS/WOW_Tri_Information.html

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by teeandcee View Post
I've been wondering. This is going to sound anti-LE, but I don't meant it that way as I'm probably one of the most pro LE people here. They released a lot of info because they needed the public's help. Now they don't need us so much so the release of info is drying up. Basically they used the public. And that's fine. Whatever it takes to get the job done. It's annoying, but I understand and support the strategy.

Did I mention it was annoying??

Wasn't it reported that the county has now taken over? And aren't they a lot more quiet than Charlottesville LE? I wonder if that will also have an effect on how much/often we hear about the case now.

The whole "We will release a statement, not hold a PC when the remains are identified" could simply be that Albemarle County does things differently.

<BBM for Focus>

teeandcee, I've been researching missing/murdered persons for almost a decade looking for common denominators of the cases that have a successful conclusion compared to those that take years/decades to solve. One common denominator is that the LEAs that use the antiquated close to the vest silence investigative strategy rarely solve their cases in a timely manner. LEAs that utilize this strategy will normally have a very high rate of unsolved cold cases..

There are indicators when missing/murdered persons cases involve slight acquaintance/stranger sexual predators/serial killers. It is critical to identify these perps and solve these cases in a timely manner due to their probability of escalation and recidivism.. To insure that this is achieved, all investigative resources must be utilized as CPD Chief Tim Longo has in the HG case. The most valuable investigative resource is an aware citizenry; The American Public..as we have witnessed in this case until four days ago..

Imo, both the ACPD/VSP subscribe to this antiquated close to the vest investigative strategy of silence from the 1970s. This is the catalyst that has enabled JM to continue preying on unsuspecting innocent victims for over a decade.. JMO

RE: The whole "We will release a statement, not hold a PC when the remains are identified" could simply be that Albemarle County does things differently

eileenhawkeye, the above statement is an indication that the ACPD has an 'us against them attitude', squanders their most valuable investigative resource, and does not have an effective Media Management Strategy... JMO

 

[JohnTate90210]

What if WCP is his normal "dumping ground"...there was a Triathlon scheduled for Sat, the 13th that he may not have been aware of and there were probably signage etc up there and he had to go to Plan B

With the Triathlon scheduled, I wonder if there could have been activity going on all night at the park. Our local park recently had a marathon and some outside group came and setup a couple of RV's that were, I guess, kind of offices. Signing people up, drinks, numbers, etc. Assuming there was much setup the previous day, then people may have been there all night to prevent vandalism and to get last minute things setup. It looks like things got underway at 7:30 am.

http://www.charlottesvillemultisports.com/CMS/WOW_Tri_Information.html

 

[Ghost Horses]

I have a few theories, but one is that JM used the logging trails that are behind the house as a out of the way opportunity to rape HG and kill her (and others), but yet still be near civilization. Based on his patterns, I think for whatever reasons he didn't want to venture too far into the woods nor be away from his comfort zone of the area. With HG it may have not been near the house, maybe on the logging trail/woods a little ways away. He then dumped her body in the creek. I maybe giving this guy the benefit of the doubt, but maybe he learned something from the MH murder and thought he was getting rid of DNA evidence by dumping her in the creek/water. After some time, heavy rains fell and her body washed up in a tributary behind the house and got partially buried in sediment, silt, etc. The water later receded forming a "dry creek bed" and in came the buzzards. The house has nothing to do with that night. It just so happens that this is where HG's body drifted and where the buzzards later cleaned her to the bone, perhaps carrying away her body parts on to that property. On a side note, is this what the landscaper saw, failing to notice what they were doing on the roof... eating? Could these buzzards have carried parts away dropping pieces some distance from the creek bed and this what the neighbor smelled who live down the road? Are any of these characteristics of buzzards or am I stretching it? I also feel like more victims are in that vicinity of the woods and the other areas of North Garden that may have any networks of old logging roads. I do believe the remains are HG, however with each day my mind begins to roam... Is the reason we are in the dark: a) It's not HG. b) It's HG and others were found also. c) All of the above. d) None of the above, it's HG and we are just being impatient with the wait. Anyone know of a way to find out the rainfall amounts that area got in the time frame of when she went missing?

Sorry if I come across as insensitive with my choice of words and description. I am far from it. My heart breaks with the thought of the victims, family and friends! This world does not have to be so evil. I just don't get it!

 

[EHE]

Rainfall data: (Also of note, the week before the discovery of human remains, we had VERY heavy rains/downpours, it was Wednesday, Oct. 15 to be exact. I distinctly remember b/c I was driving in it and couldn't see on the freeway)
VIRGINIA SITES

STATION TOTAL
ALBEMARLE COUNTY...
MONTICELLO CRN CHAV2 1.83
CHARLOTTESVILLE AIRPORT CHO 0.86
WEST CHARLOTTESVILLE COOP CRVV2 2.28
MONTICELLO COOP CTVV2 2.37
EARLYSVILLE UCOOP ERLV2 0.77
FREE UNION COOP FRUV2 0.91
Source: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/LWX/HYMLWX

BUT date the local reported buzzards was Oct. 6th...hmm.

 

[mirv22]

Interesting idea but from Google Street View, it appears there may be a gate right after you turn off from Old Lynchburg Road. I'd guess they lock it up after dark. I know my local parks lock them down at night.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37....d=MgBqHfjTcoXm4b2s7QxnMw&cbp=12,166.7,,0,3.98

There are gates there, but they are not consistently closed and locked at night. Maybe they have gotten better about that, but they did not always lock them up ten years ago when I was younger and crazier and would go there for late night swims...... :blushing:

 

[justonedrin]

He will be tried for the highest crime first. The fairfax abduction/rape is the least of his worries (sadly) he will be charged with MH abduction/capital murder/rape and more than likely HG too. Those 2 carry death penalty. Fairfax will just be added on. He will continue to go to court until all his trials are complete.

imo--he will be tried with the case that has the best evidence to ensure a conviction to keep him locked up with while they work on the other cases. they have DNA and a live witness--I would think the rape/attempted murder case will go forward first. The murder cases will take longer to investigate and they need that time.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Rainfall data: (Also of note, the week before the discovery of human remains, we had VERY heavy rains/downpours, it was Wednesday, Oct. 15 to be exact. I distinctly remember b/c I was driving in it and couldn't see on the freeway)
VIRGINIA SITES

STATION TOTAL
ALBEMARLE COUNTY...
MONTICELLO CRN CHAV2 1.83
CHARLOTTESVILLE AIRPORT CHO 0.86
WEST CHARLOTTESVILLE COOP CRVV2 2.28
MONTICELLO COOP CTVV2 2.37
EARLYSVILLE UCOOP ERLV2 0.77
FREE UNION COOP FRUV2 0.91
Source: http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/LWX/HYMLWX

BUT date the local reported buzzards was Oct. 6th...hmm.

I think I have the right link that another poster here posted a few days ago: http://www2.backprint.com/competitionimaging/127646/browse

It looks like it was raining on the 13th September just hours after HG went missing in the Walnut Creek Park area?

 

[Hiandmighty]

I have a few theories, but one is that JM used the logging trails that are behind the house as a out of the way opportunity to rape HG and kill her (and others), but yet still be near civilization. Based on his patterns, I think for whatever reasons he didn't want to venture too far into the woods nor be away from his comfort zone of the area. With HG it may have not been near the house, maybe on the logging trail/woods a little ways away. He then dumped her body in the creek. I maybe giving this guy the benefit of the doubt, but maybe he learned something from the MH murder and thought he was getting rid of DNA evidence by dumping her in the creek/water. After some time, heavy rains fell and her body washed up in a tributary behind the house and got partially buried in sediment, silt, etc. The water later receded forming a "dry creek bed" and in came the buzzards. The house has nothing to do with that night. It just so happens that this is where HG's body drifted and where the buzzards later cleaned her to the bone, perhaps carrying away her body parts on to that property. On a side note, is this what the landscaper saw, failing to notice what they were doing on the roof... eating? Could these buzzards have carried parts away dropping pieces some distance from the creek bed and this what the neighbor smelled who live down the road? Are any of these characteristics of buzzards or am I stretching it? I also feel like more victims are in that vicinity of the woods and the other areas of North Garden that may have any networks of old logging roads. I do believe the remains are HG, however with each day my mind begins to roam... Is the reason we are in the dark: a) It's not HG. b) It's HG and others were found also. c) All of the above. d) None of the above, it's HG and we are just being impatient with the wait. Anyone know of a way to find out the rainfall amounts that area got in the time frame of when she went missing?

Sorry if I come across as insensitive with my choice of words and description. I am far from it. My heart breaks with the thought of the victims, family and friends! This world does not have to be so evil. I just don't get it!

I live in a wooded area and we have a lot of buzzards and turkey vultures. What I have noticed is there are usually a good 6 of them at a time and they may drag the body off the street, but I don't recall seeing any fly off with a piece of scrap (though I'm sure they could). They usually "guard" their bodies until they are done with it. With their beaks, they could definitely snap a rib bone in two.

 

[Rockfarmer]

My heart breaks with the thought of the victims, family and friends! This world does not have to be so evil. I just don't get it!

Speaking my heart

 

[Hiandmighty]

Remember too, these turkey vultures are huge-- the size of turkeys. 6 of them will take up a one lane road... I have had to wait for them to move before I could pass. (We get a lot of road kill: deer, possums, raccoons, etc...)

 

[tlcya]

BLACKSBURG, Va. - Family and friends gathered on the campus of Virginia Tech Thursday night to remember Hannah Graham.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/26871312/family-friends-gather-at-vigil-for-missing-hannah-graham

Good turnout, video at link

 

[scmom23]

I think this is Hannah and they may be cross-checking other DNA against, perhaps, something found at the crime scene, i.e a weapon or a "rape kit" etc. If so, that could take a while. Why they have decided, Imo, not to release her identification yet is a mystery to me, as I find it hard to believe they do not know yet. But maybe they want to make any announcements possible at one time.

I hope a gag order is not immediately put into place, once he appears for charges, or whatever. If we think we are impatient these four days...going a year or two before trial(s) will be much worse, and a shame, as people begin to forget. Hoping searches for other victims keeps cases in the news throughout time until trials begin.

I mentioned a while back of a dreaded gag order. Does anyone think a gag order would be a benefit or necessary for a fair trial? As far as releasing identity, I don't think LE rushing at this point. They probably need a little breather right now (as far as keeping up with media and going public with evidence) and don't really have the urgency now that they have the body. It's not like JM is going anywhere or has a chance to get out on bond. There's so much going on with possible connections to other cases it's prob smart to keep quiet until all the puzzle pieces fit together.