Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[klily444]

Not to quash your hopes and dreams, but what you see on the rims could be brake dust, and anywhere you go in this part of Virginia (within 100 miles or more), you'll be in red clay.
View attachment 62341

http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums...-brake-dust-vs-armorall-wheel-protectant.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_(soil) --> Originally mapped in Cecil County, Maryland in 1899, more than 10 million acres (40,000 km²) of the Cecil soil series (Fine, kaolinitic, thermic Typic Kanhapludults) are now mapped in the Piedmont region of the southeastern United States. It extends from Virginia through North Carolina (where it is the state soil), South Carolina, Georgia and Alabama, with the typic Cecil pedon actually located in Franklin County, NC.

Well...darn it. Thank you for clarifying and providing a link. I've never seen anything like it before.

 

[jamicat]

When there was discussion about seizing JM's car for evidence, many stated that the soil remnants could possibly lead LE to locations where the car recently had been and possibly aid in finding Hannah. Well, that didn't happen. But it is possible that there are some special soil and vegetation in that area that are very specific that can be matched to the car, now that LE has a locale.

Enough time has gone by, IMO, and some rain and storms, so that it's possible any tracks are obliterated, but then maybe not. But since the locale is a residence, a house and property, is it possible, JM just stuck to the drive way and did not go on the yard? Can one go onto that property without leaving treads in the soil? I know that our yard is not particularly tell tale in terms of anyone driving on it. Give it a week even after driving on the grass after rain, and the traces are pretty much gone, though forensics might be able to come up with signs that I can't see just looking at it.

But if the area is typical and JM stayed on a driveway that did not leave tread marks, it may be difficult to pinpoint him to that property which I think is what LE is trying to do. Hopefully they found something that will do so.

 

[cluciano63]

Imo, JM was always more or less prepared to take a woman, and just took what opportunities came his way. Hannah was a prime target. Jmo

 

[lillygator]

i was thinking of brake dust as well.

so what happens now? I kind of feel like we are at a stand still.

 

[ksj3]

Well...darn it.

I know....

I just couldn't let myself let you guys do the happy dance when I knew it wasn't likely.

 

[jamicat]

Where does LE go from here? Do they wait for forensics to come back to see if a match with JM? Or will they simply charge him with perhaps evidence they found in his car? I wonder how long an indictment will take?

I think all of that time LE has been searching the property where Hannah was found, and areas around it is to find every and any bit of evidence to place JM there. They found Hannah which has been a primary goal, and hopefully she has some evidence on her, on her clothes that will definitely show that JM was there, not just something that could have been left from walking together at the mall, riding in a car. LE has to show that JM was there or that he definely harmed Hannah. That the body was skeletal is a bad break, though maybe it still has some DNA evidence that can nail JM. But if not, it would be a powerful piece of evidence to be able to place JM at that location where Hannah was found. He was last seen with her, and then if there is proof he was where her body was found, I can see a convict. Very little reasonable doubt what that means. Just that he left with here at the mall and gave her a ride? Doesn't mean he did anything beyond that.

 

[ksj3]

i was thinking of brake dust as well.

so what happens now? I kind of feel like we are at a stand still.

I feel like we are, until we know what evidence they found. Hopefully they found all kinds of stuff.

Remember, LE provided some evidence to Camblos, and he admitted it? I see two options there: 1) It was exculpatory (please no!) so they were required to provide or 2) it was damning and they provided it in hopes of getting information out of him.

Damning could be his or her clothing at or near the scene (or anywhere), his "trophies" located, any number of things. I'm praying for #2. And waiting to hear what happens next.

 

[LI-Mom]

Why he had to kill, I don't understand. He could have just dropped her off somewhere alive.

Because dead men tell no tales?

Well not quite, in this day and age of DNA, but leaving behind no victim to testify is the obvious answer. The two college rape allegations taught him this.

Where he learned to leave bodies exposed to the elements and nature is what I'd like to know. Personally, if I was going to kill someone my instinct would be to hide the body, bury, whatever. His weren't buried. Lazy, calculated, no fear of it being found, or did he just not care if it was found, like once he was done with her he put her out of his mind?

 

[klily444]

When there was discussion about seizing JM's car for evidence, many stated that the soil remnants could possibly lead LE to locations where the car recently had been and possibly aid in finding Hannah. Well, that didn't happen. But it is possible that there are some special soil and vegetation in that area that are very specific that can be matched to the car, now that LE has a locale.

Enough time has gone by, IMO, and some rain and storms, so that it's possible any tracks are obliterated, but then maybe not. But since the locale is a residence, a house and property, is it possible, JM just stuck to the drive way and did not go on the yard? Can one go onto that property without leaving treads in the soil? I know that our yard is not particularly tell tale in terms of anyone driving on it. Give it a week even after driving on the grass after rain, and the traces are pretty much gone, though forensics might be able to come up with signs that I can't see just looking at it.

But if the area is typical and JM stayed on a driveway that did not leave tread marks, it may be difficult to pinpoint him to that property which I think is what LE is trying to do. Hopefully they found something that will do so.

The "driveway" and I hate calling it one, because it's not much of a driveway, but l looks more like dirt, only goes up for so long before it turns into grass. So if he didn't park his car right in front of the road, he would have had to drive on the grass.

 

[klily444]

i was thinking of brake dust as well.

so what happens now? I kind of feel like we are at a stand still.

We see what new charges are brought upon JM. We see what happens with Fairfax on Friday. In the meantime, keep sleuthing every avenue of the case.

 

[klily444]

I know....

I just couldn't let myself let you guys do the happy dance when I knew it wasn't likely.

It's your job to rain on our parade when we get off track.

 

[klily444]

I feel like we are, until we know what evidence they found. Hopefully they found all kinds of stuff.

Remember, LE provided some evidence to Camblos, and he admitted it? I see two options there: 1) It was exculpatory (please no!) so they were required to provide or 2) it was damning and they provided it in hopes of getting information out of him.

Damning could be his or her clothing at or near the scene (or anywhere), his "trophies" located, any number of things. I'm praying for #2. And waiting to hear what happens next.

Maybe it's my wishful thinking again, lol, but I would think if the evidence was exculpatory, Camblos would be glad to include that word in the statement he made about receiving information.

 

[FindHG]

Because dead men tell no tales?

Well not quite, in this day and age of DNA, but leaving behind no victim to testify is the obvious answer. The two college rape allegations taught him this.

Where he learned to leave bodies exposed to the elements and nature is what I'd like to know. Personally, if I was going to kill someone my instinct would be to hide the body, bury, whatever. His weren't buried. Lazy, calculated, no fear of it being found, or did he just not care if it was found, like once he was done with her he put her out of his mind?

Interesting thought. Thanks. There's a sense that it was important for him to keep remains and go back. Whatever his fear of getting caught may have been in both Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham's murders may have been over come by his needs and his extreme sense of comfort or confidence in that area.

 

[Jmm124567]

I think all of that time LE has been searching the property where Hannah was found, and areas around it is to find every and any bit of evidence to place JM there. They found Hannah which has been a primary goal, and hopefully she has some evidence on her, on her clothes that will definitely show that JM was there, not just something that could have been left from walking together at the mall, riding in a car. LE has to show that JM was there or that he definely harmed Hannah. That the body was skeletal is a bad break, though maybe it still has some DNA evidence that can nail JM. But if not, it would be a powerful piece of evidence to be able to place JM at that location where Hannah was found. He was last seen with her, and then if there is proof he was where her body was found, I can see a convict. Very little reasonable doubt what that means. Just that he left with here at the mall and gave her a ride? Doesn't mean he did anything beyond that.

I think inside JM car is the key. I believe that is where the crime happened. There was something in the car that gave LE probable cause to quickly get a search warrant for his apartment. Were are her shoes, socks, shirt? Also was she wearing underwear and a bra if she was where is it? All the media has reported is that her black pants were near the remains. Its possible though that more clothing was there and LE didn't disclose it to the media.

 

[jamicat]

"According to the records that were shared with me by Cunningham, LJ ordered two drinks at 1:09am and paid for them exactly one minute later. The bartender rang them up at $7 a piece. " http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/

"Abby does remember quite well seeing LJ Matthew and Hannah Graham walking away outside about a half hour later. “A lot of people were outside then,” she says. “It was a typical, crowded Friday night. I guess it was about 1:40 or closer to 1:45. I remember because it was definitely after last call.”"

Rohypnol: "It is 7-10 times more potent than traditional sedatives such as Valium. Rohypnol has a rapid onset of action (15-20 minutes) and a 4-6 hour duration."
http://www.geneseo.edu/health/date-rape-drugs

If ingested at 1:10-1:15, time of onset would have been 1:30-1:35.

Quoting more from that same Insidecville.com source: "“When I saw her that night,” Abby says, “I remember thinking, she’s really drunk. She couldn’t walk well. She was slouched into him, leaning against him, like she was having difficulty standing up. He was talking to her, and his right arm was around her, not over her shoulder, not at the waist, but around her back and holding her right arm. He was holding her close, like he was almost holding her up. They walked away together up the street towards the Mall.”

That was about 1:45am on Saturday, September 13. That was the last time anyone remembers seeing Hannah Graham.

BBM/ this is the same woman we saw earlier walking and running without any support and many thinking she wasn't moving like someone was at all inebriated. One beer or one one drink would do that so quickly? I don't think so. And why would JM, so impulsive, so hot to trot, stop by Tempo and spend the money for two drinks when he has her right there, all willing to go for a ride with him? I think the drink, which I've no doubt she glady took, as I've said often a cold beer would have so welcome after that walk, the frustration, dehydration from earlier drinking, was spiked. I'll bet he could barely get her to the car and it was easy dealing from that point on.

What I just don't get is that she would have been so out, he could have just dropped her off near where she wanted to go afterwards, instead of killing her She'd likely have awakened with little memory, and maybe not sought out what happened. She knew she drank too much that night. She knew she got lost. IT might have ended right there. But he had to kill her.

 

[jamicat]

I think inside JM car is the key. I believe that is where the crime happened. There was something in the car that gave LE probable cause to quickly get a search warrant for his apartment. Were are her shoes, socks, shirt? Also was she wearing underwear and a bra if she was where is it? All the media has reported is that her black pants were near the remains. Its possible though that more clothing was there and LE didn't disclose it to the media.

I hope. But the car is awfully small for JM to have done anything there. But, yes, her clothes, with maybe important DNA would be good. LE isn't saying. If it's just evidence that Hannah was in the car, IMO, it's a step in the right direction, but not enough. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that she went into the car with him. With her hair, DNA in the car, it nails that, so that the whole idea that he walked to the street and bid her adieu on the spot is out the window. But so what if he gave her a ride? Without some more evidence, it is possible he just dropped her off where she requested, and mayb got picked up by someone else thereafter. I don't believe it for a second, but it's could have happened. No proof beyond getting into the car? I don't think that's good enough. If he drove her 7 miles to some abandoned place, no reasonable person is going believe she wanted a ride to there, and that he just dropped her off there alive and well. But JM has to be placed there or there has to be some proof he did something harmful to Hannah. THat's what the evidence has to show. NOt just that he was with her, that he gave her a ride.

 

[cluciano63]

I saw yet another true crime show last night, where DNA on body of victim was matched to a perp, yet LE still had do a complete investigation to find other evidence before they would bring charges. And not just that they may have encountered one another. This DNA was from semen, yet was not enough without getting witnesses who had seen injuries on the perp, were willing to testify, and more.

So really, without knowing what exactly they have that links Morgan or Hannah's murders to JM, we may see a case presented as a set of circumstances that point to a conclusion of JM having been the killer. DNA is circumstantial, not physical, evidence, though a strong piece. Jmo

 

[ILOKAL]

Imo, Charlie Chan and ILOKAL, it was ACPD/LE that advised the vacant property owner/s as well as others to remain silent; refuse media interviews. Likely due to the unexplained lapse of time from when the buzzard's tip was called in by the aware citizen and when HG's remains were eventually located 13 days later. This critical tip was obviously ignored and never followed up on by LE.. The tipster, although likely advised to remain silent, was concerned that the property had not yet been adequately searched and reached out to media in frustration... jmo

http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-where-hannah-was-found/
EXCLUSIVE: WHERE HANNAH WAS FOUND
POSTED ON OCT 19, 2014
<sniped & BBM>

Another source with whom I have spoken just this morning, confirms that on Sunday October 5, a long-time resident of Albemarle County drove by this residence and noticed an unusual flurry of buzzards behind the home.
Earlier the following morning, Monday October 6, this same man stopped his car at this residence and looked around. The buzzards had gone. This man knew the home to be a rental that was not currently lived in.
He walked the property, but only briefly since he felt odd that he was trespassing. He got back in his car and left.
Later that same morning, at exactly 9:45am October 6, he called the tip line, reported the address&#8212; 3193 Old Lynchburg Road&#8212; and said he&#8217;d noticed the buzzards. He also reported that he was concerned the property had not yet been adequately searched since the home was not currently lived in.

Albemarle County Tax Records list the property owner as Phyllis Campbell, who is noted as residing just a few miles to the south on Plank Road.
I called her home this morning. When I informed the woman who answered that I was a reporter, calling to ask about 3193 Old Lynchburg Road, she kindly replied, &#8220;We were told not to talk to the media about this.&#8221;
&#8220;Were you asked not to do this by the Albemarle County Police?&#8221; I asked.
&#8220;I&#8217;m not allowed to say,&#8221; she replied.
&#8220;Is this because it&#8217;s where they found the remains of the missing girl?&#8221;
&#8220;I&#8217;m really not supposed to say,&#8221; she answered. &#8220;We&#8217;re not allowed to talk about it.&#8221; I thanked her for her time and said goodbye.

The above quote (1st one) looks like it's what "I" said when in fact it's in response to my post that stated it might have been her attorney who advised her not to answer questions.

In regard to Coy Barefoot's article/interview with Mr. Pugh, who saw the black vultures at the property, the dates that he saw them keeps changing. This article clearly says he saw them On October 5th, returned on October 6th, saw no vultures, and called in his tip at precisely 9:45 AM that day. He has since given other interviews. In one he said he saw the buzzards on the 5th and called in the tip that day. Another of his accounts says he saw them on the 5th AND 6th and then called in the tip. And THEN, in his most recent interview, said he saw the black vultures on September 30th and called in the tip that same day.

He is a landscaper who must keep an appointment calendar which should saw exactly which days he drove down OLR, I would think. He seems like a sharp enough fellow. Why there are so MANY inconsistencies in his story, I haven't a clue!

EDA: sorry, the first quote I am referring to doesn't appear. You would need to click on charliechan to read it.

 

[Ollie]

ttp://www.readthehook.com/67132/mor...ope-fresh-fear

 

[klily444]

ttp://www.readthehook.com/67132/mor...ope-fresh-fear

What is this? I couldn't get the page to load, even after eliminating the ttp typo. Thanks.