Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[Claudette]

I respectfully disagree, because it apparently didn't take years for his evil ways to take back over between the fall, 2002 sexual assault charge at Liberty, and the fall, 2003 sexual assault allegation at Christopher Newport, and then the rape and near murder in 2005. I will defer to Foxfire on this, because I am still learning a lot about serial killers, but it seems their crimes tend to escalate and become more frequent, not less. I too find it very difficult to believe he was inactive between Morgan's abduction and murder and Hannah's. I think there is still much we will learn about JLM's activities before this is all over, and I think he will be tied to more sexual assaults and murders. All JMO

Sometimes they have cooling periods, where they go an extended time without kills. BTK had several. One was 8 years and another 5. Last known victim was 1991, and he was quiet until he tried to get media attention again in the 2000s. To be fair, there were intended victims in those times but you can find others by googling serial killer cooling periods.

 

[otto]

This intersection is where Hannah texted that she was lost. That was the last time anyone heard from her - if it was her that sent the text..

The text claimed that she was at the intersection of 14th and Wertland, but we now know that she was Tempo at the time the text was sent, and that she was incapacitated when Jesse walked her out of Tempo at 1:40AM.

 

[ponyponyfan]

This intersection is where Hannah texted that she was lost. That was the last time anyone heard from her - if it was her that sent the text..

the police have been clear in saying that hannah was not at that intersection when she sent the 'lost' text. is there something i'm missing? or are you just showing the intersection? respectfully.

 

[MomnVA]

Otto, Thanks so much. Can you see this link? I am focusing on the destination.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...C6PPCljM_79R4aziTGPIAuqEC6PPA&mra=ls&t=m&z=16

I'm looking at the map in terms of -- where is her phone? I keep looking at the Tempo/Downtown Mall area, and thinking of how he would have been focused on heading south quickly & being seen as little as possible. For some reason, my fingers keep somehow hitting & clicking on the railroad tracks. That 4th street (SE) underpass, going underneath the tracks, just seems so creepy and sketchy and low. That's a one-way street heading south, right? I could imagine him stopping and hiding a pink busted-up phone up in there somewhere. (I hate subjecting my imagination to trying to get into his mind at that moment... )

 

[otto]

Sometimes they have cooling periods, where they go an extended time without kills. BTK had several. One was 8 years and another 5. Last known victim was 1991, and he was quiet until he tried to get media attention again in the 2000s. To be fair, there were intended victims in those times but you can find others by googling serial killer cooling periods.

With Jesse, we have possible rapes in 2002, 2003, and 2005. We have possible murders in 2009, and 2014. It looks like he was escalating between 2002 and 2005. I doubt that he simply stopped for four years, and then for five. I suspect there are more victims.

 

[Skigirl]

I don't know about hers. But if she did know him I'm not sure they would have been Facebook friends. As her behavior, refusing a walk home, walking alone to downtown mall, seemingly with intent, the text to her friends when we know she was at the downtown mall...makes me think she may have not wanted her friends to know where she was going or who she was meeting.

Just a theory to explore.

I don't believe that she intentionally went so far from the Corner. I think she truly was lost. When she got to McGrady's, the doorman asked her if she needed help after she stumbled and did a loop around the bar, and she said, "No, I'm just walking." Furthermore, the police, who know more about her texts and calls than we do, have said that she was disoriented, "her world got turned upside down" and that she was, "a good bit drunk." I think the idea that she had a secret meeting set up with JLM is a red herring. I think it was a set of tragically random events that brought the two of them together that night.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm looking at the map in terms of -- where is her phone? I keep looking at the Tempo/Downtown Mall area, and thinking of how he would have been focused on heading south quickly & being seen as little as possible. For some reason, my fingers keep somehow hitting & clicking on the railroad tracks. That 4th street underpass, going underneath the tracks, just seems so creepy and sketchy and low. That's a one-way street heading south, right? I could imagine him stopping and hiding a pink busted-up phone up in there somewhere. (I hate subjecting my imagination to trying to get into his mind at that moment... )

There is an Amtrak station and a wing restraunt right where the road crosses the railroad tracks btw where campus area is and the downtown mall.

 

[otto]

I'm looking at the map in terms of -- where is her phone? I keep looking at the Tempo/Downtown Mall area, and thinking of how he would have been focused on heading south quickly & being seen as little as possible. For some reason, my fingers keep somehow hitting & clicking on the railroad tracks. That 4th street underpass, going underneath the tracks, just seems so creepy and sketchy and low. That's a one-way street heading south, right? I could imagine him stopping and hiding a pink busted-up phone up in there somewhere. (I hate subjecting my imagination to trying to get into his mind at that moment... )

Morgan's phone was found at Lannigan Field. The battery was missing. Her shirt was found in another location. I think both items were planted to throw police off the trail. With Hannah, her phone wasn't found in the same way that Morgan's phone was found. Jesse probably changed things up this time. Maybe the search lights near the entrance to the park were related to other evidence related to Hannah's disappearance ... like her phone, or her shoes, or other items related to her.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't believe that she intentionally went so far from the Corner. I think she truly was lost. When she got to McGrady's, the doorman asked her if she needed help after she stumbled and did a loop around the bar, and she said, "No, I'm just walking." Furthermore, the police, who know more about her texts and calls than we do, have said that she was disoriented, "her world got turned upside down" and that she was, "a good bit drunk." I think the idea that she had a secret meeting set up with JLM is a red herring. I think it was a set of tragically random events that brought the two of them together that night.

Disagree. With all do respect, but the corner area, and the downtown mall are not exactly right near each other. She would have known the difference btw the corner and the downtown mall.

 

[4 Free Speech]

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...KD1eym1Z8l_koKziTEgvuza_KD1ew&mra=ls&t=m&z=12

Maps of Tempo - 14th and wertland, 15th and Grady, Anchorage Farm, Red Hill Elementary - what am I missing? LMK....

 

[Claudette]

With Jesse, we have possible rapes in 2002, 2003, and 2005. We have possible murders in 2009, and 2014. It looks like he was escalating between 2002 and 2005. I doubt that he simply stopped for four years, and then for five. I suspect there are more victims.

I agree. Just clarifying that not all SKs have a linear rate of progression.

 

[otto]

I don't believe that she intentionally went so far from the Corner. I think she truly was lost. When she got to McGrady's, the doorman asked her if she needed help after she stumbled and did a loop around the bar, and she said, "No, I'm just walking." Furthermore, the police, who know more about her texts and calls than we do, have said that she was disoriented, "her world got turned upside down" and that she was, "a good bit drunk." I think the idea that she had a secret meeting set up with JLM is a red herring. I think it was a set of tragically random events that brought the two of them together that night.

BBM

Why would someone like Hannah arrange to meet someone like Jesse? That doesn't work for me. We're talking about an 18 year with the world as a pearl in the palm of her hand, and a rapist with no life, no future, no life plan, nothing but more of the same nothing that he did with the first 32 years of his life.

 

[Skigirl]

This intersection is where Hannah texted that she was lost. That was the last time anyone heard from her - if it was her that sent the text..

Since we know she was most likely still in the bar (or outside the bar, if you believe Tempo staff...which I do not), I think she had typed the message previously and hadn't hit send, then accidentally hit it without realizing she was sending a text that she had typed out before. That, or, he managed to get her in the car before that and she typed "almost," because that's where she asked him to take her and she assumed that is where they were heading, and it autocorrected to "lost."

 

[Skigirl]

Why would someone like Hannah arrange to meet someone like Jesse? That doesn't work for me. We're talking about an 18 year with the world as an pearl in the palm of her hand, and a rapist with no life.

I agree, so not sure why you quoted me...

 

[Skigirl]

Disagree. With all do respect, but the corner area, and the downtown mall are not exactly right near each other. She would have known the difference btw the corner and the downtown mall.

I don't think she mistook the Corner for the Mall. I think she got turned around and was trying to get back to the Corner area, and just got more and more confused and thought she was heading the right way, until she recognized some landmarks near the Mall. Then, when she got to the Mall, she probably recognized where she was and knew she had a long walk home. I don't think she intended to end up at the Mall that night.

 

[otto]

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...KD1eym1Z8l_koKziTEgvuza_KD1ew&mra=ls&t=m&z=12

Maps of Tempo - 14th and wertland, 15th and Grady, Anchorage Farm, Red Hill Elementary - what am I missing? LMK....

Here is the map image of that route:

 

[otto]

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...KD1eym1Z8l_koKziTEgvuza_KD1ew&mra=ls&t=m&z=12

Maps of Tempo - 14th and wertland, 15th and Grady, Anchorage Farm, Red Hill Elementary - what am I missing? LMK....

I think he took Morgan down Route 29. It's more convenient from the Arena where he picked her up.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't think she mistook the Corner for the Mall. I think she got turned around and was trying to get back to the Corner area, and just got more and more confused and thought she was heading the right way, until she recognized some landmarks near the Mall. Then, when she got to the Mall, she probably recognized where she was and knew she had a long walk home. I don't think she intended to end up at the Mall that night.

I suppose anything is possible, but in order to walk from one to anther, you have to walk in a fairly straight line, for a bit of time, and its one of the main roads. I find it hard to comprehend how she could have been mixed up and walking in circles, yet took a walk that was a direct path to the downtown mall...a route se would have been on many times before. I just don't see how it is where she would have ended up....if just wandering....if that makes sense.

 

[dove28]

I don't know about hers. But if she did know him I'm not sure they would have been Facebook friends. As her behavior, refusing a walk home, walking alone to downtown mall, seemingly with intent, the text to her friends when we know she was at the downtown mall...makes me think she may have not wanted her friends to know where she was going or who she was meeting.

Just a theory to explore.

not that HG and LJ would be friends, but if THEY had mutual friends

 

[MomnVA]

Morgan's phone was found at Lannigan Field. The battery was missing. Her shirt was found in another location. I think both items were planted to throw police off the trail. With Hannah, her phone wasn't found in the same way that Morgan's phone was found. Jesse probably changed things up this time. Maybe the search lights near the entrance to the park were related to other evidence related to Hannah's disappearance ... like her phone, or her shoes, or other items related to her.

I agree, I think Morgan's shirt could very well be a plant. But Morgan's phone at Lannigan Field, right there next to JPJ where she disappeared, with the battery out -- my bet is that was intentional at the time, battery out, drive right by Lannigan, and throw it, knowing not to let that phone go with him on his journey. Who knows if they have found Hannah's phone or not, no-one has told us. It just doesn't feel like he would want that phone in his vehicle on his trip south...