Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[otto]

I suppose anything is possible, but in order to walk from one to anther, you have to walk in a fairly straight line, for a bit of time, and its one of the main roads. I find it hard to comprehend how she could have been mixed up and walking in circles, yet took a walk that was a direct path to the downtown mall...a route se would have been on many times before. I just don't see how it where she would have ended up....if just wondering....if that makes sense.

Police stated exactly where she got turned around. She thought that she was going West on one road, but in fact she was going East on another. That comment came from police in the first couple of days after she went missing. She simply got turned around. Going from memory, but it was something like she thought she was going West on Water, but she was going East on Preston.

 

[4 Free Speech]

Morgan's phone was found at Lannigan Field. The battery was missing. Her shirt was found in another location. I think both items were planted to throw police off the trail. With Hannah, her phone wasn't found in the same way that Morgan's phone was found. Jesse probably changed things up this time. Maybe the search lights near the entrance to the park were related to other evidence related to Hannah's disappearance ... like her phone, or her shoes, or other items related to her.

I think they will find her phone very close to Tempo in the same way Morgans phone was found close to the stadium. Yet her body was found just 5 miles away from Hannah's. He probably has the same MO, drug the girl, ditch the phone, and drive.

 

[dove28]

I don't believe that she intentionally went so far from the Corner. I think she truly was lost. When she got to McGrady's, the doorman asked her if she needed help after she stumbled and did a loop around the bar, and she said, "No, I'm just walking." Furthermore, the police, who know more about her texts and calls than we do, have said that she was disoriented, "her world got turned upside down" and that she was, "a good bit drunk." I think the idea that she had a secret meeting set up with JLM is a red herring. I think it was a set of tragically random events that brought the two of them together that night.

I dont think she had a secret meeting, but I'm wondering if she knew him from a mutual acquaintance or something and that made her more willing to leave with him

 

[Bonacker]

I find it hard to comprehend how she could have been mixed up and walking in circles, yet took a walk that was a direct path to the downtown mall...a route se would have been on many times before. I just don't see how it is where she would have ended up....if just wandering....if that makes sense.

Check out a post on the "Hannah's journey" thread, a few minutes ago from a member named MMLTW. Most plausible explanation I've yet heard for her strange route and long walk that night.

 

[avhuebner]

They're bringing JM to my town next week. I'd like to be there when he arrives. Dbag.

 

[ThinkHard]

Check out a post on the "Hannah's journey" thread, a few minutes ago from a member named MMLTW. Most plausible explanation I've yet heard for her strange route and long walk that night.

Can you link the thread?

 

[Skigirl]

I suppose anything is possible, but in order to walk from one to anther, you have to walk in a fairly straight line, for a bit of time, and its one of the main roads. I find it hard to comprehend how she could have been mixed up and walking in circles, yet took a walk that was a direct path to the downtown mall...a route se would have been on many times before. I just don't see how it where she would have ended up....if just wondering....if that makes sense.

It makes sense... but as someone directionally challenged, I can totally imagine myself doing something like that. She was basically turned around by 180 degrees.

I went to a big-ten school where we had a somewhat similar set up. The bulk of students were on one side of campus and there was frat row, and a little neighborhood there that catered to students that had bars that tended to look the other way regarding fake ids, and places that let in 18+ that had bands and stuff...then about a 1.5-2 miles away, on the other side of campus, was an area around "Main Street" where the "grown-ups" hung out (grown-ups as defined by college students as people who've graduated from college and have jobs and are probably in their later 20s and 30s). Students usually didn't venture down there until Junior/Senior years when the whole "campus" stuff started to get a little old, and when they were old enough to get into bars. I may or may not have been able to find it on my own at the start of my sophomore year. I definitely wouldn't have ventured there alone at night on purpose. Occasionally, if I wanted to feel very adult, I'd venture down with a friend to a coffee shop or to do a little window shopping, but it isn't the type of place I'd have cruised looking for things to do alone on a Friday night, knowing that I wouldn't be able to get into any of the bars or music venues and when there were plenty of parties up in my neck of the woods.

I almost never know where I am in space and rely on recognizing landmarks. I often have the experience of thinking I know which direction I'm heading, only to find after a couple blocks that I'm going the wrong direction. This is true even in places I know quite well. I've worked in the same building for six months and find it disorienting every single time I walk out the entrance on the other side of the building. If I were intoxicated, all bets would be off.

 

[otto]

not that HG and LJ would be friends, but if THEY had mutual friends

I can't see that either. Jesse was a 32 year old with no life. Hannah was an 18 year in her second year of university with a very promising life ahead of her (at least that's how it looks to me). I simply cannot see Hannah deciding that she wanted someone like Jesse, or people he would associate with, in her life. Her life was about learning French, sports, global health, travel, learning, family ... what could Jesse have in common with her?

 

[jbowman55]

Can someone please help me do a map from Tempo to 14th and Wertland?

I was surprised to see the destination....14th and wertland = University of Virginia Hospitality House - school of nursing, public health, primary care, obstetrics and gynecology internal relations.
I think after seeing where/what 14th and Wertland is, JLM had Hannah's phone at 1:20am and texted a "familiar place", he knew he was going to kill her, it's as premeditiated as the attempted Sexual assault / Kidnapping / Sexual penetration with a foreign object. He then disposed of the phone and I agree it's probably not far from Tempo. JMO.

BBM. By George, I think you've got it. Brilliant thinking.

JM and Hannah apparently spent at least a half hour either right outside or inside Tempo between 1:10 am and 1:45 am, which of course includes the time that the text was sent. It was probably as simple as JM asking Hannah if he could borrow her phone to send a text to a friend (meaning his own friend), at which time he sent a text to HER friends instead. He may or may not have ever given her phone back to her after that. He could have accidentally-on-purpose dropped it, or knocked it off the table, or spilled a drink on it, or he could have put it into his own pocket and, if she was intoxicated enough, she may not even have realized. He could have dropped it into a trash can on the mall. It could be anywhere by now.

You're exactly right, though. That really does show premeditation, imo, and isn't it an odd coincidence that the location texted is so near the Medical Center?

The other thing about this is that he wouldn't have known that she lived only a few blocks from 14th and Wertland, so he wouldn't know that it wouldn't make sense for her to say that she was lost at that location. She was a smart girl, so even intoxicated, she wouldn't have been lost there. No way.

Hope LE is reading and sees this. I really think you figured out the text thing. :goodpost:

 

[Skigirl]

I dont think she had a secret meeting, but I'm wondering if she knew him from a mutual acquaintance or something and that made her more willing to leave with him

That could be. Or else he was one of those people who was always out and about and seemed familiar even though she didn't know him. We had lots of those local characters where I went to school. It gave you sort of a false sense of familiarity with them because they were so visible about town.

 

[Rolo]

FindHG, my money is on Hannah's phone being dumped somewhere close to Tempo, as Morgan's was dumped at JPJ arena. I don't think JM knows the finer points of pings & GPS & batteries, but I think he knows enough to not want his victim's phone to leave the last place she was seen publicly. I think he disabled and dumped Morgan's phone before he ever left the arena area with her. I think Hannah's phone was dumped somewhere in the Downtown Mall area between or near Tempo and where his car was parked. If he can't remove the battery (as I understand from other WSers is the case with IPhone5), I'm guessing that means he either smashed it or discarded it in water somewhere nearby. What are the water or dumping opportunities close by? Storm sewers? I have no idea. Just speculating. Maybe others can come up with some far better ideas than my obvious ones...

This just popped into my head and I think it's probably more TVish than likely. But if he got her phone in/before Tempo w/o her knowing, is it possible he could have texted the message form her phone and then disabled it in the Tempo men's bathroom? if they have regular residential type toilets, looking in the tanks could be worthwhile. If they have tankless toilets, there is still plenty of water in a bathroom to disable a phone and then toss it the trash. Just a thought...... JMO of course.

 

[ThinkHard]

It makes sense... but as someone directionally challenged, I can totally imagine myself doing something like that. She was basically turned around by 180 degrees.

I went to a big-ten school where we had a somewhat similar set up. The bulk of students were on one side of campus and there was frat row, and a little neighborhood there that catered to students that had bars that tended to look the other way regarding fake ids, and places that let in 18+ that had bands and stuff...then about a 1.5-2 miles away, on the other side of campus, was an area around "Main Street" where the "grown-ups" hung out (grown-ups as defined by college students as people who've graduated from college and have jobs and are probably in their later 20s and 30s). Students usually didn't venture down there until Junior/Senior years when the whole "campus" stuff started to get a little old, and when they were old enough to get into bars. I may or may not have been able to find it on my own at the start of my sophomore year. I definitely wouldn't have ventured there alone at night on purpose. Occasionally, if I wanted to feel very adult, I'd venture down with a friend to a coffee shop or to do a little window shopping, but it isn't the type of place I'd have cruised looking for things to do alone on a Friday night, knowing that I wouldn't be able to get into any of the bars or music venues and when there were plenty of parties up in my neck of the woods.

I almost never know where I am in space and rely on recognizing landmarks. I often have the experience of thinking I know which direction I'm heading, only to find after a couple blocks that I'm going the wrong direction. This is true even in places I know quite well. I've worked in the same building for six months and find it disorienting every single time I walk out the entrance on the other side of the building. If I were intoxicated, all bets would be off.

As someone with high visual and spatial memory, it's tough for me to personally comprehend how if you've walked some place before how you cannot know where you are. I can walk through most places I've been like watching a video in my head. But I get we all learn and process info differently. So I appreciate you bringing your perspective to the table. Its good for us to realize that though we can see things through our own experiences, we can never really know what was going through Hannah's head that night. But keeping open minds to so many different possibilities is important.

 

[dda]

Disagree. With all do respect, but the corner area, and the downtown mall are not exactly right near each other. She would have known the difference btw the corner and the downtown mall.

I think she did know the difference and thought she was going the correct way but was not. There is actually a sign on Preston that she would have passed right past Bodo's that is really confusing. Because of the way the arrows are placed on that sign, it can be read to indicate that the Downtown Mall and UVA are both straight ahead. As we all know, that is not the case. But drunk and in the dark in an area that is not normally traveled on foot by students, I think she simply got going the wrong way(in fact, she was already turned around because when she arrived in the video from McGrady's she is approaching from the non-University side of McGrady's and walking in the correct direction to get home but then does the loop and heads back in the direction she came from which was the wrong direction). Then when she got to the Mall realized that going to the end of the mall and following Main St. would eventually get her home...except she got going the wrong way on the mall. I think she was power walking because she was tired, confused and trying not to look lost. I always power walk when I feel uncertain so as not to give off the vibe that I am vulnerable.

ETA: In some ways I have a very good sense of direction---take me to a new town, I can find my way around. But there are two places I get turned around---one is in Cville even though I live here. My office was on the Downtown Mall and I still get turned around all the time---my husband watches me go off in the wrong direction and just shakes his head. Williamsburg is the other place--absolutely no idea where I am when I go there.

 

[part time prof]

That could be. Or else he was one of those people who was always out and about and seemed familiar even though she didn't know him. We had lots of those local characters where I went to school. It gave you sort of a false sense of familiarity with them because they were so visible about town.

This is totally unconfirmed and therefore speculation, but an acquaintance of mine has said that JM may have served as a bouncer at fraternity parties. That could explain a casual acquaintance. MOO.

 

[makista]

This just popped into my head and I think it's probably more TVish than likely. But if he got her phone in/before Tempo w/o her knowing, is it possible he could have texted the message form her phone and then disabled it in the Tempo men's bathroom? if they have regular residential type toilets, looking in the tanks could be worthwhile. If they have tankless toilets, there is still plenty of water in a bathroom to disable a phone and then toss it the trash. Just a thought...... JMO of course.

Or the hospital incinerator. He didn't go to work the next day.. but there were days after that. If he killed her, he would have kept some type of trophy for a couple of days, I think. I hope LE has checked that thing. Morgans shirt was found later..(draped) but her phone was found. Hannahs pants were not draped but most likely-- on her. So, he didn't plant any of her stuff yet.

 

[ThinkHard]

I can't see that either. Jesse was a 32 year old with no life. Hannah was an 18 year in her second year of university with a very promising life ahead of her (at least that's how it looks to me). I simply cannot see Hannah deciding that she wanted someone like Jesse, or people he would associate with, in her life. Her life was about learning French, sports, global health, travel, learning, family ... what could Jesse have in common with her?

Well we also have to keep in mind, that we are seeing LJ though the lense of a serial killer. She would have seen him differently. In his public persona he was a high school coach, had a job, a steady gf, he seemed harmless...even big brother like perhaps....if he wanted too.

 

[Richmond]

I agree - it would take about 30 minutes for her to be incapacitated completely, that's about the drive time to the location where Hannah was found. I have experience this at a party, the scariest part is being able to "see what's going on, but no functionality available, no motor skills to talk or move". This would be consistent with a rapist, hence the name date rape drug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug

Thank you for sharing your experience. I think you posted an even more detailed description of this a few days ago, and I knew I would not be able to remember who posted it. I'm sorry that you went through that--if I remember correctly you had a friend who came to your aid. How truly frightening to be aware of the danger and unable to do anything to prevent it. I have been hoping that Hannah was NOT aware enough to realize what was happening to her. There is just no way to imagine the horror of her last experience on earth. I can only hope it was mercifully quick. I hold her parents in my heart...I do not know how I would survive, but I thank God they have the Harringtons to help lead them through this dark, dark time.

 

[whiskers]

We don't know yet he isn't involved with other murders. The girlfriend of a few years probably kept him distracted. However, I wouldn't be surprised if other rapes in Cville and disappearances are tied to him.

 

[makista]

Well we also have to keep in mind, that we are seeing LJ though the lense of a serial killer. She would have seen him differently. In his public persona he was a high school coach, had a job, a steady gf, he seemed harmless...even big brother like perhaps....if he wanted too.

Yes, his type is real good at that. Oh, you can "Count On Me"! I'm the gentle giant, soft teddy bear...... understand everything. I can even hold you up when you can't hold yourself up and on and on..

 

[cluciano63]

I doubt the phone will be found this far out, if it was dropped or left around the mall area. Probably someone picked it up. And I am sure they would have searched that area, right? Whoever found it (if found) may have no idea it might be Hannah's, maybe tossed it if they could not get into it or sold it online. Whatever people do with other's people's phones...I have no idea, mine does not even have a camera, but it seems people are always stealing them. Change out sim card and go? Jmo