Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[jbowman55]

Bringing post forward. My question: When was Hannah actually killed? When was she placed at Old Lynchburg Rd property? How do we know? Have any friends/family/coworkers made statements as to JM's activities on the evenings between 9-13 and 9-19?

Note: I've edited this to add the seizure of van taxi on or about 9-27, among other things.

Timeline, to the best of my recollection. Is this useful?

Sat 9-13 1:06 am Hannah caught on video from Sal's on Downtown Mall; convergence of Hannah, WG, and JM; Hannah walking "with purpose"

Sat 9-13 1:20 am "Lost at 14th and Wertland" text to Hannah's friends, Hannah's iPhone goes dead

Sat 9-13 1:45 am Hannah last seen alive (according to what we know now) at Tempo with JM; Hannah obviously impaired and unsteady on her feet

Sat 9-13 JM misses morning football meeting at The Covenant School

week of 9-13 to 9-19 Coworkers at UVa Medical Center observe that JM is morose and solitary

Fri 9-19 (late evening) CPD executes a search warrant on JM's car and impounds the car, finds evidence, gets additional search warrants

Fri 9-19 to Sat 9-20 (midnight to early morning) CPD executes search warrants on JM's apartment and cell phone, seize phone and several bags of evidence, news reports show officers carrying out bags of evidence during daylight hours

Sat 9-20 (approx but likely date) JM receives advice from a lawyer friend (I have not found a source for this)

Sat 9-20 (approx 3:30 pm) JM appears at CPD asking for an attorney, is accompanied by mother and uncle, has a list of attorneys already prepared, speaks with Camblos, leaves CPD without speaking to police, realizes he is still being followed by VSP, drives recklessly and VSP has to let him get away

Sat 9-20 CPD files two reckless driving charges

Sat 9-20 JM changes Facebook profile picture to black

Sat 9-20 (evening) or 9-21 JM leaves Virginia on his way to Texas (note approx drive time C'ville to Gilchrist is 19.5 hrs)

Mon 9-22 (afternoon) LE releases "Wanted" poster for JM, who is presumed in light blue 1997 Nissan Sentra VAC4575

Mon 9-22 CPD searches JM's apartment for a second time and leaves with additional evidence items

Mon 9-22 to 10-2 Someone moves remaining possessions out of Hessian Hills apt ***Who did this and where are JM's possessions now?***

Tue 9-23 CPD expects to receive lab results from items acquired in 9-19/9-20 searches

Tue 9-23 CPD files charges of Abduction with Intent to Defile

Tue 9-23 JM calls family member from Louisiana using a borrowed cell phone; inadvertently provides LE with his current location via wiretap on family member's phone

Wed 9-24 JM is spotted by "Karen" on a beach in Gilchrist, TX and is arrested about 3:30 pm

Thu 9-25 JM appears before a Galveston Co judge via video link, waives right to extradition hearing, is charged with being a Fugitive from justice and with giving false information to a police officer; judge orders JM held without bond on fugitive charge

Fri 9-26 JM is returned to Virginia by FBI agents, to the custody of CPD

Sat 9-27 (approximate date) LE seizes JM's van taxi from farm in Albemarle Co

Mon 9-29 VSP announces a forensic link between JM and the death of Morgan Harrington

Tue 9-30 OL Rd area resident observes buzzards on roof and in trees at OL Rd property

Wed 10-1 Michael Hallahan requests that Nelson Co CA order JM's DNA compared to unidentified DNA in the Alexis Murphy case

Thu 10-2 New tenant moves into apartment in Hessian Hills, later states that only a few items were left behind by previous tenants

Thu 10-2 Nelson Co CA consents to additional DNA testing in Alexis Murphy case "to dispel speculation"

Mon 10-6 Second OL Rd area resident observes buzzards at OL Rd property

Fri 10-17 VDEM requests volunteers for "Hike for Hannah" on Sun 10-19

Fri 10-17 Memorial service at Copeley Rd Bridge to honor 5th anniversary of Morgan Harrington's disappearance

Sat 10-18 Remains found off Old Lynchburg Rd in North Garden, VA

Sat 10-18 Albemarle Co Police close Old Lynchburg Rd between Red Hill Rd and Plank Rd, which includes Walnut Creek Park

Sat 10-18 "Hike for Hannah" (public volunteer search of Walnut Creek Park) cancelled

Mon 10-20 JM is charged with attempted capital murder, abduction with intent to defile, and sexual assault in Fairfax City

Thu 10-23 Fairfax City judge issues bench warrant for JM to appear for arraignment on Fairfax charges

Fri 10-24 Albemarle Co Police announce that remains are identified as Hannah Graham

Fri 10-24 Old Lynchburg Rd. is reopened to traffic

 

[Sachi]

You mean so despaired by conditions that he'd wish for his own death? If I'm correct about the sense I get from his behavior so far, documented, suspected or told of, his only condition is to adapt and get. He'll keep doing that with every breath left because he loves himself so much more than all that has existed around him. Even in jail, he is the center of the world, onto himself, the way I see it.

The painful truth you state *, he'll adapt and "he is the center of the world". The ultimate conundrum, what does society do? *Life in prison? *Or penalty by death, elimination from the gene pool? * Are we ever going to "understand" or glean anything new from his horrific self? *We are humbled by our inability to "fix it". *In any society, his behavior is anti- life and beyond the kin of a fit group. *Thus, prior to state societies, he would have been eliminated/killed or exiled to a frontier so difficult that his survival unlikely, ie *man vs nature with a gourd of water. *And, *it's not as if we can grow him a new , full sized amygdale, figure out by way of him to see the invisible monster before he strikes or administer a cocktail to ensure a change of mind and heart. *
*
He has no feelings, *bent humanity. *So grateful to everyone that helped LE *lead us to him and that he is behind bars. I speak for the sisterhood of mothers when I say- may he rot.

*He'll look forward to the trial because his monster self will be ignited by *the excitement, attention of evidence via photos and video that accompany it(should he get to feel and get to see this or*be able to see a women in photo or on the telly in person ever ever again? *
He'll get to have an internal crazy person monster party at his trial as they review evidence - and say his name a million times and talk about his murders and rapes , he'll feel special and while in prison, likely fantasize by way of new material via tv etc. Can you tell where I'm going? He had no right to kill those beautiful young women nor to violently rape others. *He is nothing, *Hannah was something , Morgan was something, all of his rape victims were something, LE is something, the man who reported the vulture is something-, the tons of volunteers and dogs are amazing somethings because all of them as they are part of the family of hopeful, acting, preservers of life. * *Not him, he's a shadow, *anti-life aberration who should never be celebrated by attention ever ever again.*


Sent from my iPad

 

[FindHG]

Bringing post forward.

Note: I've edited this to add the seizure of van taxi on or about 9-27.

Timeline, to the best of my recollection. Is this useful?

9-13 1:45 am Hannah last seen alive at Tempo with JM

9-13 JM misses morning football meeting at The Covenant School

week of 9-13 to 9-19 Coworkers at UVa Medical Center observe that JM is morose and solitary

9-19 (late evening) CPD executes a search warrant on JM's car and impounds the car, finds evidence, gets additional search warrants

9-20 (midnight to early morning) CPD executes search warrants on JM's apartment and cell phone, seize phone and several bags of evidence, news reports show officers carrying out bags of evidence during daylight hours

9-20 (approx 3:30 pm) JM appears at CPD asking for an attorney, speaks with Camblos, leaves CPD without speaking to police, realizes he is still being followed by LE, drives recklessly and LE has to let him get away

9-20 CPD files two reckless driving charges against JM

9-20 (evening) or 9-21 JM leaves Virginia on his way to Texas

9-22 CPD searches JM's apartment for a second time and leaves with additional evidence items

9-23 CPD files charges of Abduction with Intent to Defile against JM

9-23 JM calls family member from Louisiana using a borrowed cell phone

9-24 JM is spotted by "Karen" on a beach in Gilchrist, TX and is arrested about 3:30 pm

9-25 JM appears before a Galveston Co judge via video link, waives right to extradition hearing, is charged with being a Fugitive from justice and with giving false information to a police officer

9-26 JM is returned to Virginia by FBI agents, to the custody of CPD

9-27 (approximate date) LE seizes JM's van taxi from farm in Albemarle Co

9-29 VSP announces a forensic link between JM and the death of Morgan Harrington

9-30 OL Rd area resident observes buzzards on roof and in trees at OL Rd property

10-6 Second OL Rd area resident observes buzzards at OL Rd property

10-17 Memorial service at Copeley Rd Bridge to honor 5th anniversary of Morgan Harrington's disappearance

10-18 Remains found off Old Lynchburg Rd in North Garden, VA

10-18 Albemarle Co Police close Old Lynchburg Rd between Red Hill Rd and Plank Rd, which includes Walnut Creek Park

10-20 JM is charged with attempted capital murder, abduction with intent to defile, and sexual assault in Fairfax

10-24 Albemarle Co Police announce that remains are identified as Hannah Graham

10-24 Old Lynchburg Rd. is reopened to traffic

Would adding his facebook timeline help?

When he first scrubbed it, upon either his self-recognition or LE's recognition of him on the released videos. I recall WSers having a rough time for this action on his part, de-linking, deleting, cleaning it in essence, made ready for company he may have been expecting, who knows why?

It was said he received the advice of a friend/lawyer sometime before going in to see LE with his family, where his current lawyer was selected off the list provided to him, prior to any charges.

Then a short time later he blacked out his facebook picture, but not much more than that, before he began to flee.

A fuzzy facebook timeline, if you will?

Thank you, Looks great.

 

[Jmm124567]

I am very good with patterns and she is going in continuous circles. The question is why? Why? Especially LIVING there for over a year. I would like someone to tell me that she has never visited the downtown mall in a year and half she's lived there. Why should this be unfamiliar territory?

Are you talking about HG? If so what do you mean she is going in continuous circles? Also HG didn't live there for a year and a half. She attends college from late August until early May then goes home for the summer. Her second year of college had just started about 3 weeks before she was killed. I do think she has been to the DTM before but I do not think she is very familiar with most of the area.

It seemed like HG was looking for something and either had limited information to work from or made a mistake somewhere. I think she was suppose to meet one or more people at a bar and that's what she was looking for was the bar. I think either she did not know the name or address of the bar and was using the map on her phone walking to bars in the area looking for the people or she did know the name and/or address of the bar but made a mistake with the map on her phone. After she left McGrady's she walked across the street then stopped right in front of the street sign for several seconds and I think she was checking the map on her phone. I think she was looking for a bar because if she was looking for a house party then she would be walking on the side streets in the residential area and I don't think she would get that lost looking for a house party because wouldn't it be right in that area she lives in. Instead she seems to be walking on main roads which is where the bars mainly are and also in the DTM there are multiple bars. Her behavior at McGrady's could confirm she was suppose to meet someone at a bar because when she first arrives at McGrady's she stops at the patio and it looks like she is peeking into the patio as if she was looking for someone.

If she was in fact looking for a bar then I do not think she knew the name or address of the bar and was using the map on her phone walking to bars in the area looking for whoever she was suppose to meet. I just can't see her getting this lost with the map on her phone if she has the name or address of the bar. And why would she go to McGrady's if she knew the name and/or address of the bar. I also wouldn't be surprised if whoever she was texting saying she was lost was not responding to the texts.

 

[FindHG]

The painful truth you state *, he'll adapt and "he is the center of the world". The ultimate conundrum, what does society do? *Life in prison? *Or penalty by death, elimination from the gene pool? * Are we ever going to "understand" or glean anything new from his horrific self? *We are humbled by our inability to "fix it". *In any society, his behavior is anti- life and beyond the kin of a fit group. *Thus, prior to state societies, he would have been eliminated/killed or exiled to a frontier so difficult that his survival unlikely, ie *man vs nature with a gourd of water. *And, *it's not as if we can grow him a new , full sized amygdale, figure out by way of him to see the invisible monster before he strikes or administer a cocktail to ensure a change of mind and heart. *
*
He has no feelings, *bent humanity. *So grateful to everyone that helped LE *lead us to him and that he is behind bars. I speak for the sisterhood of mothers when I say- may he rot.

*He'll look forward to the trial because his monster self will be ignited by *the excitement, attention of evidence via photos and video that accompany it(should he get to feel and get to see this or*be able to see a women in photo or on the telly in person ever ever again? *
He'll get to have an internal crazy person monster party at his trial as they review evidence - and say his name a million times and talk about his murders and rapes , he'll feel special and while in prison, likely fantasize by way of new material via tv etc. Can you tell where I'm going? He had no right to kill those beautiful young women nor to violently rape others. *He is nothing, *Hannah was something , Morgan was something, all of his rape victims were something, LE is something, the man who reported the vulture is something-, the tons of volunteers and dogs are amazing somethings because all of them as they are part of the family of hopeful, acting, preservers of life. * *Not him, he's a shadow, *anti-life aberration who should never be celebrated by attention ever ever again.*


Sent from my iPad

Yep. First fail safe against immorality or in this case inhumanity is supposed to be family, kin, and now it comes to a community guided by laws so preciously set. As to the sistershood of mothers, it's imperative sons are raised to respect every aspect of a woman. Let him take nothing more away from the good people he hurt.

 

[Sachi]

Yep. First fail safe against immorality or in this case inhumanity is supposed to be family, kin, and now it comes to a community guided by laws so preciously set. As to the sistershood of mothers, it's imperative sons are raised to respect every aspect of a woman. Let him take nothing more away from the good people he hurt.

Amen to that. Raise our boys to be good and decent men.

 

[ILOKAL]

Bringing post forward. My question: When was Hannah actually killed? When was she placed at Old Lynchburg Rd property? How do we know? Have any friends/family/coworkers made statements as to JM's activities on the evenings between 9-13 and 9-19?

Note: I've edited this to add the seizure of van taxi on or about 9-27, among other things.

Timeline, to the best of my recollection. Is this useful?

9-13 1:06 am Hannah caught on video from Sal's on Downtown Mall; convergence of Hannah, WG, and JM; Hannah walking "with purpose"

9-13 1:20 am "Lost at 14th and Wertland" text to Hannah's friends, Hannah's iPhone goes dead

9-13 1:45 am Hannah last seen alive (according to what we know now) at Tempo with JM; Hannah obviously impaired and unsteady on her feet

9-13 JM misses morning football meeting at The Covenant School

week of 9-13 to 9-19 Coworkers at UVa Medical Center observe that JM is morose and solitary

9-19 (late evening) CPD executes a search warrant on JM's car and impounds the car, finds evidence, gets additional search warrants

9-20 (midnight to early morning) CPD executes search warrants on JM's apartment and cell phone, seize phone and several bags of evidence, news reports show officers carrying out bags of evidence during daylight hours

9-20 (approx 3:30 pm) JM appears at CPD asking for an attorney, speaks with Camblos, leaves CPD without speaking to police, realizes he is still being followed by LE, drives recklessly and LE has to let him get away

9-20 CPD files two reckless driving charges

9-20 (evening) or 9-21 JM leaves Virginia on his way to Texas (note approx drive time C'ville to Gilchrist is 19.5 hrs)

9-22 CPD searches JM's apartment for a second time and leaves with additional evidence items

9-22 to 10-2 Someone moves remaining possessions out of Hessian Hills apt

9-23 CPD files charges of Abduction with Intent to Defile

9-23 JM calls family member from Louisiana using a borrowed cell phone

9-24 JM is spotted by "Karen" on a beach in Gilchrist, TX and is arrested about 3:30 pm

9-25 JM appears before a Galveston Co judge via video link, waives right to extradition hearing, is charged with being a Fugitive from justice and with giving false information to a police officer

9-26 JM is returned to Virginia by FBI agents, to the custody of CPD

9-27 (approximate date) LE seizes JM's van taxi from farm in Albemarle Co

9-29 VSP announces a forensic link between JM and the death of Morgan Harrington

9-30 OL Rd area resident observes buzzards on roof and in trees at OL Rd property

10-2 New tenant moves into apartment in Hessian Hills, later states that only a few items were left behind by previous tenants

10-6 Second OL Rd area resident observes buzzards at OL Rd property

10-17 Memorial service at Copeley Rd Bridge to honor 5th anniversary of Morgan Harrington's disappearance

10-18 Remains found off Old Lynchburg Rd in North Garden, VA

10-18 Albemarle Co Police close Old Lynchburg Rd between Red Hill Rd and Plank Rd, which includes Walnut Creek Park

10-20 JM is charged with attempted capital murder, abduction with intent to defile, and sexual assault in Fairfax

10-24 Albemarle Co Police announce that remains are identified as Hannah Graham

10-24 Old Lynchburg Rd. is reopened to traffic

Your timeline is great. You might want to add on 9/23 after JLM borrowed the phone to call his dad, the lender or someone else there recognized him. The FBI or some LE agency (due to the tapping of his Dad's phone) was already on his trail before he even arrived at Gilchrist. I don't have the link to that/those article(s) but I DO recall reading that.

 

[ToodieWorm]

I have to agree. Although I'm in Florida where heat and humidity take hold quickly causing things to decompose faster, I've still seen vultures appear minutes after baby calves are born on our farm to peck at the placenta before the mother cow has a chance to eat it. They will start circling when the calf first appears :/

 

[ThinkHard]

This is great thinking, too. Look for the phone in the area of 14th and Wertland. But then, I wonder, surely the phone would have been picked up by a passer-by, because would not that area be inundated with students?

Wonder also, if LE does not have the phone, if they have considered offering a reward for its return? Perhaps they'd get it back if they did that. That is, if JM didn't destroy it or throw it into the lake at WCP.

Also, no telling what else they'd find if they put divers into the lake at WCP.

Changing the subject, I wonder if anyone has an opinion on why JM would choose to leave the two deceased victims we know about in the woods right at the time when hunting season is just about to begin or has already begun? My H is a bow hunter (whitetail deer) and tells me that bow season began on Oct 4 this year.

If JM was an outdoorsman, even if he didn't hunt himself, he'd be aware of the approximate times that hunting season was to start. Seems counterintuitive to leave murdered women outdoors at that time if you don't want them found right away.

I live a couple hours south of C'ville, in a rural area not unlike the area where Hannah was found. In back of the property I live on, there are hundreds of acres of forest, mostly uninhabited, but during hunting season there are people and dogs all through there. It is especially busy after gun season starts; I guess that's also when the dogs come into play.

Now that I think of all that, I can't imagine why someone's hunting dogs didn't find Morgan.

Well I don't know much about hunting...but are you allowed to hunt on private property? Or public parks? Because both were found on private properties and one near a park.

 

[ThinkHard]

Murder is the first thought, getting rid of the body is the last thought. Morgan was aducted and left in a tall wheat field on October 17. She was found on January 26 the following year. Hannah went missing on September 13 and was found in a dry creek bed on October 18. I doubt either of those are likely hunting trails.

Animals are attracted to water, not dry creeks, so even during hunting season, it's not a likely spot. Morgan's body was left in tall grass, or wheat. She was not found until the grass was flattened by the snow, and he remains were almost skeletonized. Clearly they were not so skeletonized as to obscure DNA results ... that now match now only a rape in 2005, but a murder in 2009 and another murder in 2014.

I don't think murder is the first thought with this guy. I think to him murder is lumped in with disposing of evidence and dumping the body....I think he gets his kicks from rape.

 

[jbowman55]

Well I don't know much about hunting...but are you allowed to hunt on private property? Or public parks? Because both were found on private properties and one near a park.

Hunters need owner's permission to hunt on private property. Dogs will often run, though, onto private property anyway.

Another WS user tells me that deer hunting with dogs is not allowed in Albemarle, so my point is probably moot. Deer ARE hunted with dogs where I live, a couple hours to the south, so I was not aware that it was not done in Albemarle.

And no, I very much doubt that hunting would be allowed near that park. My point was really related to dogs, and how they just don't have the regard for property lines that people should have. They just run where they see or smell something interesting...

Thanks for your questions.

 

[Elley Mae]

Dogs May Be Used For Deer Hunting Except:

East of the Blue Ridge in Bedford, Fairfax, Franklin, Henry, Loudoun, Northampton, and Patrick counties, and Amherst (west of Rt. 29), Campbell (west of Norfolk Southern Railroad), Nelson (west of Rt. 151), Pittsylvania (west of Norfolk Southern Railroad), and the City of Lynchburg.

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/deer.asp

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't think murder is the first thought with this guy. I think to him murder is lumped in with disposing of evidence and dumping the body....I think he gets his kicks from rape.

I agree in thinking murder is not JLM's first thought. I think murder is the necessary means to cover up and "hide" the deed of rape.

 

[ThinkHard]

That place is so rural, vultures live there. (They live here in AR too and the wing span is 6 feet, mostly road kill) Anyway-- The couple that called in the smell, was only a couple of days before the sightings of birds.

My husband started smelling things two days ago and saw vultures. And yesterday he was like 'Lori it really smells bad outside, lets shut the windows,'” said Hamilton.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/26822378/neighbors-react-to-human-remains-believed-to-be-hannah-graham

That was posted October 18th and updated on the 19th of October, and the couple said the smell was bad a couple of days before that, so that puts it on the 16h or late 17th of October.. She went missing on Sept 13th.

I wonder if the wind had changed directions around the time they started smelling it?

 

[jamicat]

Your timeline is great. You might want to add on 9/23 after JLM borrowed the phone to call his dad, the lender or someone else there recognized him. The FBI or some LE agency (due to the tapping of his Dad's phone) was already on his trail before he even arrived at Gilchrist. I don't have the link to that/those article(s) but I DO recall reading that.

I wish we knew when JM was first seen on Saturday after he left Tempo with Hannah. In fact an timelinew of what he did until he was under surveillance would be most useful. Though where he left Hannah doesn't take a lot of time for him to access and reaccess the site. It would have taken him very little time to take here there, rape and just leave her there. Doesn't seem like he did much to hide the body.

 

[ThinkHard]

There might be a second person to this.. maybe that's why they are looking for links to Randy Taylor (and yes, I know he is in prison) I just find it odd that she was out there for a month amongst active wildlife ( coyotes for number one) and all the sudden a month later the smell and the birds. There is a long time in between that period. And yes, my area did get a lot of rain ( flash flooding) and it lasted for a week. We have black bears here and are pretty use to being considered rural.

Perhaps the creak had gone through phases since her disapearance, regarding water levels. If she had been put in there while the creek was full, or it became full at anytime while she was in there, it would have had affects not only on the natural decaying process, but also it would have limited her exposure, scent, and accessibility for animals. Just a thought.

It could help explain the seeming delay in the reported smell and vulture sighting.

 

[SteveP]

I agree in thinking murder is not JLM's first thought. I think murder is the necessary means to cover up and "hide" the deed of rape.

We will never know, but I really wonder with how many women and how often he ever had consensual sex. I get the sense that whenever he wanted sex, he determined he was going to have it, and probably killed those who put up a fight and resisted. By some reports I have read, it seems likely that Morgan put up a fight, and although she seemed almost totally incapacitated when leaving Tempo, by the time JLM was about to, or in the act of raping her, Hannah may have had enough cognition to mount at least some resistance. If we had any idea what the frequency of his sex life, we may have a better idea of whether there are others out there we do not know of yet. I am convinced there are. JMO

ETA...would also be interesting to know if he had rough sex or acted out rape fantasies with any willing partners.

 

[ThinkHard]

Wonder if fingerprints were found on MH's phone?

I don't recall that it was ever really confirmed they thought Morgans abductor had anything to do with her phone not being with her. One of the thoughts, as I believe was based on statements by several members of the boys UVA basketball team, was that she had walked with them to the field asking for a ride, and had dropped her phone a couple times while walking, at one point the back fell off. So speculation was in her state of mind, she may have dropped it herself, before coming into contact with her abductor.

 

[Zuri]

I don't think murder is the first thought with this guy. I think to him murder is lumped in with disposing of evidence and dumping the body....I think he gets his kicks from rape.

I have thought this same thing. Rage. Rejection. Projection. Powerlessness. Why do men like this prey on the vulnerable? JM obviously seems to have issues. I wonder how many of them stem from "mommy" issues. I wish I knew what makes someone like JM tick.

I have a feeling JM is not going to fair well in general population. Is he still in solitary for his own protection, if that is indeed why he was placed there in The first place?

 

[ILOKAL]

I wonder if the wind had changed directions around the time they started smelling it?

It's strange these neighbors would have seen vultures and smelled something at that time, just about two days before the remains were discovered. Mr. Pugh, the landscaper who called in his tip, has stated he saw "black vultures" on either September 30th or October 5th (he has changed his story several times) and black vultures are known to pick the bones clean. They also tend to follow turkey vultures to the source since black vultures have keen eyesight but a poor sense of smell. I don't know if the neighbor's story passes the smell test, no pun intended.