Sad to say, I think the chances of her being trafficked are slim, although it is our best hope and a very scary one to contemplate. Not sure what is worse for the victim, being drugged and forced into prostitution or death, although it would be nice to think she is alive.
Hannah Graham: The Search - #2
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Does anyone know...did LJ go to work on the 13th? I'm trying to figure out how much of a timespan there is between when Hannah was last seen with him (around 1:30am on Saturday the 13th) and when he was next seen again. That would help pinpoint how much time he had to dispose of the body which, in turn, could give you how broad of a radius outside of C-ville she could possibly be.
If he had to be at work at 7am, then he could conceivably have driven 2-2.5 hours out of C-ville, hid her body somewhere and then driven the 2-2.5 hours back to go to work.
But if he didn't have to be at work til noon, then he could have driven up to 5 hours out of C-ville. If he drove until close to dawn (so that he could still hide her while it was dark out) he could have disposed of the body around 6:30 am and then turned around and headed back to C-ville and still made it back in time for work.
So if we knew when he was seen again on Saturday, it would narrow down the amount of time he had to travel away from town and narrow down the search. I mean, damn, if he had five hours to drive, he could have driven all the way to freaking West Virginia!
I know in reality it's unlikely he drove with her in his car for that long but it IS a possibility. And given that I live in the Northern Virginia area where he is forensically tied to a rape up here, what's to say he didn't drive up this way and dump her in...one of the rock quarries up here? I used to drive by one when I come home from Charlottesville the "back way" (to avoid major interstates). How well does he know this area up here?
I wonder how far outside of Charlottesville they're willing to look and whether they have evidence that tells them she's still there.
Also, does anyone know if his ex-girlfriend is cooperating with LE? She must know a looooot about him if she was with him for four years. Do we have any proof she even exists? I never saw a substantiated report on her existence, just people mentioning it as fact.
If he had to be at work at 7am, then he could conceivably have driven 2-2.5 hours out of C-ville, hid her body somewhere and then driven the 2-2.5 hours back to go to work.
But if he didn't have to be at work til noon, then he could have driven up to 5 hours out of C-ville. If he drove until close to dawn (so that he could still hide her while it was dark out) he could have disposed of the body around 6:30 am and then turned around and headed back to C-ville and still made it back in time for work.
So if we knew when he was seen again on Saturday, it would narrow down the amount of time he had to travel away from town and narrow down the search. I mean, damn, if he had five hours to drive, he could have driven all the way to freaking West Virginia!
I know in reality it's unlikely he drove with her in his car for that long but it IS a possibility. And given that I live in the Northern Virginia area where he is forensically tied to a rape up here, what's to say he didn't drive up this way and dump her in...one of the rock quarries up here? I used to drive by one when I come home from Charlottesville the "back way" (to avoid major interstates). How well does he know this area up here?
I wonder how far outside of Charlottesville they're willing to look and whether they have evidence that tells them she's still there.
Also, does anyone know if his ex-girlfriend is cooperating with LE? She must know a looooot about him if she was with him for four years. Do we have any proof she even exists? I never saw a substantiated report on her existence, just people mentioning it as fact.
this is the point that girl was never reported missing. Those are the type of girls traffickers target. Hannah was NOT that type of girl at all she didn't get trafficked .... And did some just refer to model mayhem as an "underground site" thats ridiculous....
Edit: I'm sure trafficking in Albemarle County is known to LE it happens all over the place but it basically NEVER happens to someone like hannah.
there's been no official report of when the next time he was seen was there's been a number of confusing references to a poster and some blog post about we he was and wasn't at football activities, but I looked into this and I'd say both on and off the recorded we really don't know. I suspect LE has a lot better idea but they haven't given any hints.
ConcernedinDC
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Although I do think some missing women/teen could be traffic victims and they can be kidnapped I think they usually are kidnapped by someone they know like a boyfriend. Random kidnapping a in these cases are girls much younger. Although I think this is the only chance she is alive the link to morgan Harrington makes this even less likely.
ConcernedinDC
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Has anyone said if there could be any history with the bass family? If he is involved with Cassandra and put her on liberty property maybe he has a purpose beyond a good hiding spot.
It seems like a lot of bodies are found randomly by someone who goes off their normal path. It seems like people should just start walking and when they get to a place they don't want to walk- walk there.
It seems like a lot of bodies are found randomly by someone who goes off their normal path. It seems like people should just start walking and when they get to a place they don't want to walk- walk there.
Perhaps, but I think a more readily accessible possibility is the large number of abandoned wells on old farmsteads and the like. I glanced at the county GIS system, but didn't see any notation for these.
Source?
I agree it's unlikely. I don't agree it's any more unlikely than dealing with a serial killer, which seems to be the other option here.
I don't think there are good statistics for people "like Hannah" who "vanish without a trace." The average life expectancy of someone involved in the sex trade is seven years. They often don't live to escape and tell their story.
The Polaris Project clearly states trafficking cuts across race, nationality, gender, age, and socioeconomic background. http://www.polarisproject.org/human-trafficking/human-trafficking-
BBM - I would say she was vulnerable in some way.
faqs#Do victims always come from a low-income or poor background?
Who is at risk of becoming a victim of human trafficking?
Since human trafficking victims can be men or women, adults or children, and foreign nationals or U.S. citizens, trafficking is a crime that cuts across race, nationality, gender, age, and socio-economic background. However, human traffickers typically prey on individuals who are vulnerable in some way. Some examples of high risk populations include undocumented migrants, runaways and at-risk youth, and oppressed or marginalized groups. Click here to learn about red flags and potential indicators.
If the Schilling Show (local radio news show) counts as MSM, here's the statement. However, it is the only place I've found it in print.
"Sources familiar with the Covenant School affirm that Matthew held a position there as a “volunteer assistant football” coach. Jesse Matthew allegedly was present in his coaching capacity at last Friday night’s game vs. Massanutten Military Academy in Woodstock, Virginia.
Matthew did not attend a scheduled Covenant team meeting on Saturday morning, sources say.
Phone and email confirmation inquiries to Covenant School headmaster, George Sanker, were not returned by publication time."
http://www.schillingshow.com/2014/09/23/breaking-news-poi-matthew-worked-as-covenant-football-coach/
I'm not able to find much except in the Richmond area, but I wonder about abandoned coal mines. Would that be plausible or are those all sealed off?
2Hope4
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There are old abandoned wells, but I truly have no idea if there is a record of where they are. Even homes built in the 60's often had hand dug type wells. Around farm homes you'll likely still find some, but hopefully they've been sealed off. When I was a young child, I was walking one of my Dad's beagles on a leash. Trained hunting dog. He got away from me, and when Dad found him, his leash was wrapped around a small tree, and that's the only thing that kept him from falling into a well. There was plywood boards over the well, but they had rotted over the years, thus giving the appearance of a covered area to walk on, but would have collapsed if weight applied.
It's typically one of those things that locals know where exists, but I don't know if they are recorded, and doubt they are.
My house actually has a 'well room'. It is underground, and a door in the basement leads into it. People that have lived in this area told me there was a well there, otherwise I just thought it was a cold cellar!
It's typically one of those things that locals know where exists, but I don't know if they are recorded, and doubt they are.
My house actually has a 'well room'. It is underground, and a door in the basement leads into it. People that have lived in this area told me there was a well there, otherwise I just thought it was a cold cellar!
distracted
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I followed it every single day until they found her. It was well publicized here in California. It may have been the Metallica connection that drew the attention but her disappearance stayed in the news for months. HLN covered it for quite a long time, too. It was heartbreaking when the case went cold. I honestly didn't think I could follow another case like hers. And then Hannah disappeared.
Mellowscout
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On Friday, Sept 19,2014, JM was "allegedly" in Woodstock, Va. with the Covenant School Football Team.
http://www.militaryschool.com/athletics/calendar
A lot of speculation about WG. Personally, I and other members have remarked that we suspect WG was likely to have wanted to hit on Hannah, but JM beat him to the draw. Sadly, there is no shortage of guys like that. This happens a lot. Usually, the girl comes through the experience with her life, though assaulted, raped, coerced. It's rare that a person crosses that line of killing the person.
But we have no proof, and it's not fair to speculate these sort of things, because he could have truly been a good samaritan. He did step up and go to LE and report what he saw. His description was way off and for a while LE thought there were 2 AA men at that mall, but it took time to work with the video footage and really see what was on there.
The Daily Mail account of the AA man with dreads having come to the police is not verified by the info given directly by LE at press conferences which are all listed by our Bessie here on this board. I think they got that wrong. Reading the sequence of LE reports to the MSM and public, there is confusion, that there might be two AA men, one that WG describes, and one that LE can see with dreads, and by talking to people and vendors at the mall, was able to ID definitively as JM JM was and is well known at that mall and at Tempo's as a regular, so getting a fix on his ID was relatively easy. The description WG gave confused them because they could get no fix on anyone there with that description at that time from anyone else or on video footage. By comparing what WG said happened and the surveillance footage, it became clear that the problem was WG's description, simple as that.
johnallore
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Thank you so much!
The thing is, there are a lot of people that fit that description. A lot of families have children that are troublesome, get into trouble, cross certain lines. They just aren't frigging serial killers. They just won't outright rape someone, much less kill someone, and when they pick up women who look easy, or are drunk, confused, they may rape them, but murder just isn't there. Date rape is frighteningly common and a major problem at colleges, all among classmates, friends, dates, and significant others which is why it is so difficult to nail down. A woman who gets so raped is understandably reluctant to raise a ruckus, and may truly love or care for the guy who raped her. So it's an elusive crime to get as far as getting reported, much less prosecuted. It's an easier go, if the male is truly a stranger, if other physical harm was done. It is entirely possible that had Hannah returned to her apartment the next day, she might not have wanted to report being picked up and taken advantage of by JM, or if she did, eye witness accounts saying she went with him willingly might be an issue in her saying she was raped. The big problem here is that she did not return. This is where a solid line has been drawn, where LE can go all out. That she did not come back means it is highly likely that she was injured and by this time she is likely dead.
But it's not uncommon for parents to move their kids out of one environment to another to keep them out of trouble or get them out fo some rut they found themselves in. There are many,many males with JM's profile, but their "dates' don't disappear, they don't go around outright assaulting women. They may skirt the edges of consent but not cross that all important line.
Indeed.
Nope. It can't be 100% ruled out, can it? JM could certainly say he met up with someone he knew to whom he owed money, who said he'd take Hannah home, and that guy could have been a trafficking ring buyer. Maybe JM's lawyer could hint of those connections, possibilities and that could be enough reasonable doubt for JM to walk in a trial if there are people like you on the jury and lack of any evidence that harm occurred to Hannah in JM's car or by JM. Real possibiity here, right?
And I'm not being facetious. Maybe she was looking for some secret love at the mall, JM dropped her off at a place she designated and she went off with him. Maybe he made a pass and she jumped out of the car and ran away, tripped somewhere, broke her leg and fell iinto a ditch and still is there. Maybe,she and JM went somewhere, had sex, forced or not, and she disappeared on him while he fell asleep afterwards. Maybe he dropped her off and an assailant got her while she was walking home. Unless LE has some strong evidence showing that some harm came to her in that car with JM, you can see that there are a lot of possibilities and yes, JLM could be part of a Human Trafficking ring as well. Right now the whole thing is to find Hannah or what happened to her, and regardless JM holds the key as to what the next step in her journey since she was last seen with him.
He showed up at the game the Friday night before meeting Hannah, did not make that 9/13 meeting the next day. Showed up again at the 9/19 game, but again, did not show up at the Saturday morning meeting. But from what I read from that parent on the board, that was not uncommon for him not to show up at the post game meeting. He was a volunteer assistant coach, not a paid member of the coaching team, and so he had leeway on what he attended. I could see someone up for the fun of the games and not for the morning after talks. He doesn't seem to be a Saturday morning type given what he likes to do late Friday night/early morning..
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