Hannah Graham: The Search - #3

[FWIW...]

He turned his phone off. There are no pings to follow for X hrs after Tempo. LE has his phone records.

 

[FWIW...]

He turned his phone off. There are no pings to follow for X hrs after Tempo. LE has his phone records.

 

[FindHG]

I had hypothesized earlier that he was smart enough to remove the batteries from MH & HG's phones, so wouldn't he remove his battery as well, but at that point, the cops weren't on to him - he was no where on their radar, so why would he remove his battery... So maybe they are triangulating his phone in order to get the search area? I have no idea how that works or how close you can pinpoint a location?

He'd have to break her IPhoneS5 to get to the battery. The last signal was at 1:20 am, at least 20 minutes before they were last seen, less then ten minutes after he paid for the drink (i seem to recall but have no way of retrieving) 1:10 according to the receipt - but not sure

 

[human]

Do you have a link that supports the 1 1/2 hour statement.

I was wondering that as well. I tried googling but my search terms must not be good.

I recall reading in the past that it may be 20 mins or less.

 

[ksj3]

I had hypothesized earlier that he was smart enough to remove the batteries from MH & HG's phones,

HG had an iPhone. Those batteries aren't removable.

 

[FindHG]

He turned his phone off. There are no pings to follow for X hrs after Tempo. LE has his phone records.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[ksj3]

He turned his phone off. There are no pings to follow for X hrs after Tempo. LE has his phone records.

That X. What is that X??? I know it doesn't matter to us, it matters to LE. But that would let our brains slow down a little bit. Even if we only knew X was between Y and Z. (Just venting.)

 

[human]

I remember reading early on that his passenger side door was duct taped shut from the outside, but.that wasn't shown in the LE pics...

Wasn't it sealed by LE?

Chain of evidence and all that

 

[ksj3]

I was wondering that as well. I tried googling but my search terms must not be good.

I recall reading in the past that it may be 20 mins or less.

I corrected that. Ignore the 1 1/2 hours. Deleted the post.

 

[Skigirl]

Very true indeed. My experience is strictly anecdotal, but at night (and during the day), dogs watch over my livestock. I use Great Pyrenees dogs and while they are friendly to us, they get downright vicious to strangers around their charges. A joke is that if you drive by a field of sheep or cows and can't spot the dog, just park the car and walk up to the fence. The dog will come out from wherever he is and go NUTS!
Between rednecks, hunters, territorial property owners and dogs, farm hands, cops and Virginia's strict trespassing laws, I don't see how JM would risk it.
And if it is a horse farm, forget about it. He would have to be practically suicidal to trespass on a horse farm. I just can't shake the feeling that if he left her on private property, he knew that there werent the usual "security" measures in place and that the farm wasn't a working farm.

Edited to add: horses and roosters are excellent "guard dogs." they will let you know if anything is amiss in your fields.

Thanks for your post (I used to have a Great Pyrenees -- most beloved dog ever!). I agree that in a commercial farming or relatively sophisticated hobby farm, the security can be pretty tight, but I recently moved away from a small farm on 50 (largely wooded) acres (maybe 10-20 acres, tops, open) that was a couple miles off the main road. You had to drive down two long dirt roads to get to it, and practically nobody even knew there was a house tucked back on the river where I lived. The property actually had two houses (one belonging to the owner) and a bunch of outbuildings, and assorted equines (shetland ponies, donkeys, horses), goats, sheep, chickens and other fowl. I lived there for four years and always had the subjective experience that I knew when cars were coming down the driveway, because sometimes I heard them. However, it was rather shocking how often I found unexpected things, among them, a young pig that had been dumped about 200 yards from my house?!?, a stranger in a pickup down by the river who had brazenly driven all the way down the driveway and then down a walking path to get there, an unexpected UPS guy suddenly within sight, etc. to realize that when the leaves were on the trees, you could not necessarily hear vehicles until they were within sight of the house, which means they could have been bumping along for over a mile before I knew they were there.

My house was only about 200 yards from the chicken pen, but it was a little hilly and a couple times I arrived at the pen to find that there had been predators during the night. I am sure that the roosters (we had two, one was a casualty) and chickens were making a lot of noise during the masacre, and I'm a light sleeper, but I managed to sleep right through it.

There were also nine dogs on the farm -- seven in one house, which was about a quarter mile from mine, and I had two. None were guard dogs, per se, and none of them were ever left in the pasture, but you would think that with nine dogs, we would always know when someone was on the way before someone was rumbling into sight. Nope. Also, they barked at so many things that it wasn't obvious that they were barking because someone was coming or if it was because they saw a particularly interesting squirrel (of course that would be less of a problem with a proper guard dog).

Anyway, I think many would be surprised at how easy it is to enter a large piece of land without being detected. I also know, from running around looking for one of our free-range birds that disappeared (a coyote casualty, I guess), and trying find the injured barn cat (who turned up in time to be taken to the vet...never did find where she had been hiding), that trying to find something in wooded terrain, even as little as 30 acres, can be an almost impossible task.

 

[Foxfire]

If I were JM, somewhat drunk, driving around in my sketchy car in the middle of the night with a body or kidnap victim, there is NO way I would drive east or north out of cville proper. Way too populated. I would definitely be driving south or west.
But this is VA. Trespassing on peoples' private farms is a serious crime. Especially livestock farms. If I saw someone trespassing on my posted private property, my livestock farm, I could legally shoot them dead. Cville is pretty urban but as soon as you leave the city, it is the rural south. One doesn't just simply traipse around some random farm. I know this. Most everyone from this area knows this. There are some scary rednecks around here. JM would know this too. And even the larger farms have cameras, farmhands patrolling the property or even camping in the fields (coyotes are bad this year), locked gates, etc.
This is why I think he had a predetermined place where he knew, without a doubt, he would not be seen.
This is all just my opinion, of course.

Good point and reasoning, Appalachiagirl. Unless investigators have info that points to another location, then the nearby state and federal park land should be the primary focus area, imo..

 

[goldenbear]

I read somewhere I do not remember where that a phone can be tracked even if turned off if the battery is still in it.

 

[FindHG]

I read somewhere I do not remember where that a phone can be tracked even if turned off if the battery is still in it.

Even a weak or dead battery still risks pings. You have to disengage the battery not to risk pings. You have to break an IPhoneS5 to disengage the battery.

 

[JohnTate90210]

I read that. ONE guy was going to take on three girls???

I've been reading a book where the killer took two girls at the same time. Then he used one to control the other. "Take off your clothes or I'll kill your friend." That sort of thing.

 

[FindHG]

I know a young women who was naked in bed, when she realized there was a man lurking in her bedroom. She fought him off, was able to run out of her apt and onto the street naked before he gave up. Fortunately, others were around. Apparently, in any abduction, it's the first few minutes that you have the best chance of getting away. JM knew his schtick way before his eyes locked on Hannah Graham, it was well worked.

 

[whiskers]

Surely LE has visited every place he's lived. Just look at the case in Ohio where the women were held for years. I wonder if MH was held somewhere for a bit as well.

But because he was sharing an apartment, I suspect with HG this is not the case.

 

[Appalachiagirl]

This probably isn't the right thread for this, but I don't know where else to post it.
A few years ago, I used to go to cville to party and drink on the mall. Millers was my favorite watering hole. After last call, when the bars empty out, the mall is very crowded. People are standing around, smoking and talking. I cannot even begin to count how many times I was offered cocaine by people that look just like JM. Friendly, attractive, professional. We would be standing around outside, smoking and a guy would approach and offer us cocaine. Mind you, I am not a college girl but was in my early thirties/late twenties and it happened all the time. I do appear very young though.

You ladies wanna get high?
You look drunk. Come snort a bump and sober up a little bit.
My car/apt/friends house is right around the corner.
I know where there is an after party.
Let's go get breakfast!

These are some of the things we would hear. We would politely decline and go on our way, usually sticking close to a bigger group of people. I am not saying all these guys are predatory rapists/killers, but it seems to be the thing to do. And in every single instance, the drug offered was cocaine.
I don't go to cville's downtown mall anymore for this reason.
Maybe this can give some insight into what really goes down. I am not in anyway implying that this is what happened to MH or HG, but the vibe on the mall is very different than the vibe around the Corner. If I were to see a young lady like Hannah running around the mall intoxicated, I would have definitely interfered. Maybe not follow her around like WG, but at least take her under my wing and make sure she got home safe.

 

[shmoo]

How would a criminal choose a way to get out of Cville without detection, assuming there's an unconscious/wounded person in the car and the registration/inspection stickers are bad or stolen...? I find it rather difficult to imagine such a scenario, but here goes. Bring up a map of Cville in Google Maps to see these...

My top choices:

1. Barracks Rd. (Rt 654) west...

2. Rt 742 (Avon St.) south (direct exit on downtown on city streets, 2 lane, short four lane section near county jail, not much traffic at night, intersects with rural section of Rt 20, allows access to Red Hill area after a short distance

Another C'ville local chiming in. I think route #2 (Avon St. extended) makes a lot of sense: directly accessible from the Downtown Mall area, and quickly leads to a lot of rural areas off Rt 20 South. I assume local officials also know this, and have already directed SAR to search the Rt 20 South area thoroughly. (Well, I hope they've already searched it thoroughly.)

 

[ksj3]

Another C'ville local chiming in. I think route #2 (Avon St. extended) makes a lot of sense: directly accessible from the Downtown Mall area, and quickly leads to a lot of rural areas off Rt 20 South.

One of his traffic violations was Buckingham, correct? 20 S takes you there, too.

 

[Meemaw12]

@NBC29: BREAKING: sources tell @henrygraff authorities have recovered the cab #jessematthew was driving in 2009 from a farm.