Hannah Graham: The Search - #3

[hambirg]

The Lazy Parrot Grill I think is where you're talking about. It's in a well populated area, but right on 250W and the river. It's a quite popular place given they have live local music and cheap drinks. The area immediately surrounding it has been well covered, I believe. There are some interesting spots out Free Bridge Lane (which leads, the back way, to a local park) and on the other side of the river, on the other side of 250 from Lazy Parrot. I don't know if the wooded areas around the park, on either side of the river, were searched, but those are all pretty populated areas, certainly compared to Anchorage Farm.

IIRC, the river (not sure what portions) has been cleared from aerial searches.

One thing that keeps sticking out to me, from MH, assuming he's her perp, is that MH was placed "with intent" by someone who knew the area well and had no trouble overcoming obstacles in the dark, in a place where "no one ever goes." I think they key is going to be figuring out where he frequented. It'll likely be that simple. Outlying areas, then off the beaten path, where no one ever goes.

What is your interest in 250W? Why do you prefer to keep him, rather, on 29? 29's been "claimed" already, to follow your line of thinking.

Sorry, I did mean Lazy Parrot Grille. I'll edit that. I'm interested in it for two reasons. First he started out there alone the night Hannah disappeared and he only stayed for one drink. Second, he's a regular there. People are usually regulars at a bar near their house or near their work. So it doesn't fit.

I'm trying to figure out why he was there. Maybe it is just because they have cheap drinks, but then why didn't he just stay there? Instead he moves to the mall and eventually on to Tempo where they charge $7 for a beer? I don't necessarily think his dump site is right there. . .but maybe going in that direction. Is Lazy Parrot Grill part of his ritual?

My interest in 250W? Idk. . .I think it was learning that he once lived in Keswick and looking at the maps that going west on 250 from the mall might be a quick exit out of town. My gut at that time made me really interested in the strectch of 250W that dips south of I-64 in the Hunter's Hall/Shadwell area. It looks like there is a hotel there, so maybe he drove there sometimes. It seems to have a lot of secluded area, a river and some kind of quarry or gravel pit. It was just a gut feeling. . .a cumulation of little tidbits really.

About Hwy29, this is true. . .but he is probably competitive by nature. :sigh:

ETA- I should really say the area of 250W but south and west of it too, even as far over as PVCC. . .that whole area. It looks pretty secluded. He would be familiar with that area too, possibly.

 

[cluciano63]

It was probably 2-3am when he looked for a spot (assuming he killed her, of course). No traffic. He could drive in any direction and no one would notice him, even in that car, as most others on the road are probably intoxicated to some degree and just want to go unnoticed themselves. Why not drive a while? He had likely sobered up due to what had occurred and needed to think what he would do next. Maybe fifteen, twenty miles out, maybe more. It was dark for hours yet. And show up home in the morning sometime but way too tired or wired to attend football practice. Wherever Hannah is could be just so random, so outside of the local search area, that LE will never get there.

The only hope I can see is if for some ridiculous reason, they have yet to get his phone data, if his phone was on, had battery in it, etc. but that seems close to impossible with all of the various LE agencies involved. And I think they know that now it is a matter of a citizen finding her by chance, or some kind of tip, again unlikely Imo. They seem to be saying as much.

I know there was one case in TN some years ago, Stephanie Peppers Simms, BF/killer (named Wayne Guidry) where his close friend provided the locale of her body as he knew of a place that had intrigued Guidry for years and it was a deep, deep hole in the middle of a woods...sure enough, there she was. But I can't recall any others where a friend or relative had such specific info like that. I mean, I would not have any ideas about where anyone close to me might go for such a reason.

Jmo

 

[ksj3]

About Hwy29, this is true. . .but he is probably competitive by nature. :sigh:

I think 250 is a great thought. Just curious why you thought so, too. Very rural, goes right past a jail, hardly ever LE checkpoints, no traffic that time of night/morning, lots of ways to get off and loop back to Charlottesville, even on the "other" side, across two counties, near his apartment.

I've often wondered it there's more to the 29/JM thing than anyone here has discussed - and we may not be allowed to discuss it here as there's already a thread for that.

It's the competitiveness that bothers me, particularly given where he was found in Texas and someone else brought up two places he'd have likely passed (and perhaps visited) on his way there. I've been trying to think how he would "one up" "the best" to become (in his mind) the champion of this "game."

 

[hambirg]

Why not drive a while?

SBM

I just don't think he was that patient.

 

[ksj3]

Wrong thread.

 

[FindHG]

Although deer season (firearms) is weeks away, many hunters will go into the woods ahead of time to scope out and prepare areas to set up camps or stands. This provides so many more eyes out there that can help in the search; what has LE done to reach out to this group, beyond simply making statements to the media? It would be great if every license application or renewal came with a flyer describing her clothing and items, etc.

When as bow season started and they asked hunters to be on the look out, I found a thread from a northern state far from Va where bow men were discussing the search for Hannah Graham. So the word went out some, I guess as a result.

 

[ksj3]

I just don't think he was that patient.

Good point. So, where do we look now? 10 miles out? 15?

 

[cluciano63]

SBM

I just don't think he was that patient.

We don't seem to know what time he got home, do we?

 

[hambirg]

Good point. So, where do we look now? 10 miles out? 15?

I think a 10mile grid search would be prudent, considering Morgan was found 10 miles out. But anything beyond that is going to have to be targeted based on information and profiling.

Of course, the simplist way to find Hannah is sitting right there in jail. I'm sure they are working that angle. Maybe they can get a jailhouse confession if they set him up with the right cellmate. We can only hope!

 

[FindHG]

My interest in 250W? Idk. . .I think it was learning that he once lived in Keswick and looking at the maps that going west on 250 from the mall might be a quick exit out of town. My gut at that time made me really interested in the strectch of 250W that dips south of I-64 in the Hunter's Hall/Shadwell area. It looks like there is a hotel there

briefed respectfully

Did you mean the quarry near Barn Branch? it looks active in the picture.

 

[FindHG]

The only hope I can see is if for some ridiculous reason, they have yet to get his phone data, if his phone was on, had battery in it, etc. but that seems close to impossible with all of the various LE agencies involved.

briefed respectfully

I have no idea if this information is credible, but I recall a while back in a thread a person mentioning that LE had his phone records and that he'd killed it soon after leaving the Tempo area. Again, you may find it in the thread, but it sounded like good info to me.

 

[FindHG]

I think 250 is a great thought. Just curious why you thought so, too. Very rural, goes right past a jail, hardly ever LE checkpoints, no traffic that time of night/morning, lots of ways to get off and loop back to Charlottesville, even on the "other" side, across two counties, near his apartment.

I've often wondered it there's more to the 29/JM thing than anyone here has discussed - and we may not be allowed to discuss it here as there's already a thread for that.

It's the competitiveness that bothers me, particularly given where he was found in Texas and someone else brought up two places he'd have likely passed (and perhaps visited) on his way there. I've been trying to think how he would "one up" "the best" to become (in his mind) the champion of this "game."

I totally agree with your point about a one-upmanship to his nature and significance of where he was captured.

 

[hambirg]

briefed respectfully

Did you mean the quarry near Barn Branch? it looks active in the picture.

Yes, the one near Barn Branch. I don't think Hannah is in the quarry. . .just that those types of areas are usually pretty secluded. Look at that whole area south and west of 250W along that stretch. Did JM ever fish along the Rivanna River?

 

[avhuebner]

I wish we knew what happened to that wildlife camera shot., if it were legit... It'd be interesting to see if the idea about how it looked like a quarry were true.

Someone mentioned the 250 E part that dipped under 64... That's an industrial area and there would probably be loads of cameras there. I've stayed at that hotel many times!

I really don't envy LE their job on this one. I know the area south of Cville very well and I'm STILL amazed at how many wooded areas there are.

 

[ksj3]

Yes, the one near Barn Branch. I don't think Hannah is in the quarry. . .just that those types of areas are usually pretty secluded. Look at that whole area south and west of 250W along that stretch. Did JM ever fish along the Rivanna River?

I know they searched along Louisa Rd. pretty well, but I don't know what portion or how far from the road.

Milton Road is well traveled during the day (the section going south more so than the section going west) but not at night.

Clifton Inn on N. Milton Rd. is a pretty secure area; I don't think he'd risk using that road, but the one to its SW, while I think it is gated, wouldn't have anyone around, and if he's MH's perp, he wouldn't care about a gate except for the possibility of his car being seen. If he parked at the school there on N. Milton, he'd have good access to a lot of woods there.

But would he have frequented these areas enough to be "sure" they were good spots? They're all pretty well populated during the day. According to reports, he would have known Anchorage like the back of his hand.

I wonder if the school has cameras that would still have footage.

There's a utility right of way off Milton going west, right after that first house...

 

[FindHG]

Considering where he raped women at universities;

the potential forensic evidence tying him to the Fairfax victim;

(then add to that, not for any reason at all and certainly none that I know of)

if there may be a tie to just some of the other missing women listed on the timeline (post #10)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Graham-MAPS-amp-TIMELINES-**NO-DISCUSSION**

Then his awareness space may have been pretty broad.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Man...079042!1m3!2m2!1d-77.5877652!2d38.1979096!3e0

 

[ksj3]

Considering where he raped women at universities;

the potential forensic evidence tying him to the Fairfax victim;

(then add to that, not for any reason at all and certainly none that I know of)

just some of the women who are missing;

he's tied just some of the other missing women listed on the timeline (post #10)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Graham-MAPS-amp-TIMELINES-**NO-DISCUSSION**

Then his awareness space may have been pretty broad.

Even discounting those, unfortunately given his job and where he grew up and his ties to MD/PA/DC, his awareness space is pretty big. The time gap is crucial. But, I agree with a poster above, that he was likely too anxious for many reasons to drive very far.

ETA: I wish we know if the Craigsville IGA sighting was real. That might take this search in a totally different direction, more W of town.

 

[FindHG]

Yes, the one near Barn Branch. I don't think Hannah is in the quarry. . .just that those types of areas are usually pretty secluded. Look at that whole area south and west of 250W along that stretch. Did JM ever fish along the Rivanna River?

The thing is, whomever he's hidden, since Morgan Harrington's discovery, has never been found, not by hunters, dogs, nor hikers. So wherever his spot may be precludes those possibilities. And as people were already teasing him about the sketches, it may have been farther from home, otherwise people may remember noticing him and recognizing his car by chance, which up to now, based on the search doesn't seem to have happened.

He was said WSers to have scrubbed his facebook page a few days (when the videos first came out) before he came into CPD. He was said by WSers to have blacked out his picture just before his escape. So, he had time to think what he left up or could he have missed the Spotsylvania link?

 

[hambirg]

It's the competitiveness that bothers me, particularly given where he was found in Texas and someone else brought up two places he'd have likely passed (and perhaps visited) on his way there. I've been trying to think how he would "one up" "the best" to become (in his mind) the champion of this "game."

I know they searched along Louisa Rd. pretty well, but I don't know what portion or how far from the road.

Milton Road is well traveled during the day (the section going south more so than the section going west) but not at night.

Clifton Inn on N. Milton Rd. is a pretty secure area; I don't think he'd risk using that road, but the one to its SW, while I think it is gated, wouldn't have anyone around, and if he's MH's perp, he wouldn't care about a gate except for the possibility of his car being seen. If he parked at the school there on N. Milton, he'd have good access to a lot of woods there.

But would he have frequented these areas enough to be "sure" they were good spots? They're all pretty well populated during the day. According to reports, he would have known Anchorage like the back of his hand.

I wonder if the school has cameras that would still have footage.

There's a utility right of way off Milton going west, right after that first house...

:thud:

Gary Ridgway, known as the most prolific serial killer in US history, dumped some of his victims in Milton. Not only that, he lived in an area of Auburn, where he also dumped many of his victims, that would commonly be thought of as Milton. It's a weird little area with Auburn addresses, but really isn't part of Auburn proper.

Now looking at the area I was interested in off 250W, not only do I see a Milton Rd., but also an area called Auburn Hill Farm. What are the odds that JM was trying to beat the best by using an area that had the same names as the "best" serial killer? Do I need a tin foil hat here?

Btw, Ridgway dumped some of his victims in the Green River, hence giving him the name the Green River Killer. The Rivana is right there too. anic:

 

[distracted]

I've been thinking about his escape route all day. What I keep coming back to is the thought that he probably didn't go too far for several reasons. Because he seems to be impulsive, I don't think he has the control to wait very long to get started. Also, unless he rendered Hannah completely unconscious soon after leaving Tempo, there's the chance she could have regained her wits. If she had been drugged, the effects of GHB last a very short time so he wouldn't have long to get where he was going. If she was drunk and fell asleep, he might have a bit longer but I don't think he would have taken the chance she would regain consciousness while he was driving, IMO.

Afterwards, he could then have taken her to a different location possibly, but I still don't think it would have been far away. And I think it was all done that night because he could not afford to be missing too long afterward or take a chance someone would see him.

With regard to being a regular downtown, I think he trolled that area because he saw it as the best chance to get lucky without people becoming suspicious. He obviously didn't think he was being videotaped because of the controversy in town about cameras and the lack thereof, thank goodness.

ETA: I hope that LE revisits some of the areas they have searched closer to town because it's difficult to cover every inch the first time.