Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[bakerlady]

LE said 4th. Around that area. Then went on to say the POI was parked somewhere around the mall, people had to have seen him. I later thought it was the north blocks of 4th but I don't recall if that came out in a later presser or an article, sorry.

ETA: I know LE had his car on video leaving the area so I assume they know approximately, if not exactly, where he parked. I hope they have video of Hannah getting in the car. And to keep his defense attorney from claiming he just gave her a ride and doesn't know what happened after that, I really pray LE has his car on video near Walnut Creek Park.

LE has never specifically said they have his car on video. The quote was from Mooney 'we have them leaving Tempo together' which implied several times to be from witness testimony. It is in the press conference.

 

[Meena's Mom]

Where was Hannah trying to go? Does anyone know?

I don't know anything about the other questions you asked, and its not like I know much either about where Hannah was trying to go, but I did read from a post somewhere here on this website that a waitress or some sort of staff at a bar or restaurant asked her if she needed help or something and Hannah just said she was just walking. I don't know what post that is. I'm new here so I don't really know how to mark posts or find things. Maybe someone else can help you out with that.

 

[Meena's Mom]

... As I said Sal's and Tuel's are a minute walk from each other so he followed her for no more than one minute.

I'm not sure about this, but it also could be noted that WG (who we were told had been cleared) was also following her that one minute too, because it seems to me he is still following them in Tuel's video. Just something to note... if it is indeed WG.

 

[zebra]

Did you type Charlottesville after 14th and Main? Type in "14th and Main Charlottesville" and it should work

I just typed it as you instructed, and it worked. Thank you for alerting me to my mistake. :seeya:

 

[klily444]

In the beginning Longo said she was being followed in the Tuel's video and that man is who they were looking for. At that time he did not see JLM and thought what was seen was a reflection in the window. He even said later that he had only noticed JLM after others had pointed it out to him (IMO it was thanks to WS because several of us saw JLM clear as day)

The man who was walking behind them appeared to be wearing a white shirt and dark pants and had a slight beer belly. This is the description they gave out in the beginning.

I am going to assume that WG called in the tip initially and mentioned a black man with Hannah but probably did not remember the clothes he was wearing. So, LE went back to the tapes, saw who they THOUGHT was the perp following her and ASSUMED it was the right guy. So they took the description from that and released it and not til later did they realize there was actually someone walking NEXT TO Hannah.

IMO this is the only logical explanation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/16/graham-mystery-murder-charlottesville/17216765/


I am assuming this is WG. I am also assuming, like most people, he was not so good at remembering descriptions so he could not recall JLM's hairstyle or clothing that night. But he did remember his interaction with Hannah.

I am either misunderstanding or am just confused. The guy following Hannah is WG, and he's white, so why would they release a description of WG being black? I am assuming that is what you mean...that the description released was based on the person following her, which is WG.

Also, McGrady's is nowhere near the downtown mall, so WG wouldn't have been the one to interact with her at McGrady's.

Please clarify...I may just be misinterpreting what you're saying.

 

[klily444]

MMLTW, CvilleMother & klily444: : IMO, the combination of your individual theories/insights provides what I believe to be the exact circumstances that caused Hannah to become lost and take the route that she took.

A brief synthesis of MMLTW, CvilleMother & klily444's posts:

After finding herself lost and wandering for a bit, Hannah resorts to using her phone's GPS to lead her back to the area of her apartment/the parties. The central intersection near that area is 14th and Main.

However, when Main Street crosses 14th, the name of Main Street changes to University Avenue. Unaware of this easily overlooked technicality, Hannah inputs "14th and Main" into her phone's GPS.

Since, technically, the intersection of 14th and Main does not exist, Google Maps defaults to "4th and Main." (If you input 14th and Main yourself, you will find that it indeed defaults to 4th and Main).

Assuming that Hannah was close to Grady Avenue when she input 14th and Main into her phone, the exact route Hannah took that night is the route that her GPS would have provided.

***All credit for these ideas and theories goes to MMLTW, CvilleMother & klily444. I contributed nothing. I merely summarized their posts into a short, cohesive story. I would have quoted each of their posts here but could not figure out how to do so.***

I love when collaborative theories make sense. Thanks for checking Google Maps to ensure it defaults to 4th and Main when inputting 14th and Main.

Another reason I love WS.

 

[MJPeony]

I've thought the same thing all along. I'm pretty sure this is the time of year when pledging takes place. Can anyone confirm if that was going on at UVA?

I've also thought back to my college days and the ONLY time my girlfriends and I ventured from each other is if there was a boy involved. No one wants to play third wheel and a girl has more confidence being alone during those kind of encounters. It seems backwards but unfortunately is how we think during those days of innocence and coming of age. I was guilty of leaving my friends and also letting my friends leave me if a guy was waiting on the other end. Why not? A guy can protect us right? It's a safe pass-off right?
I've been haunted by her demeanor in the first video/picture of her starting her night in her apartment. She looks beyond happy, excited, confident. She looks like she's on top of the world. It just appears to me that she has that air of a girl finally meeting someone she's been interested in. That leads me to think that something either happened through social media that baited her in the direction or she got lost on her way to meet the good person and JM caught her at a vulnerable moment when she was tired and defeated and he positioned himself as saving the day and getting her back to her apartment/friends.

I'll also add that I've been bothered by the WG. I know that he's been cleared as suspect but if JM hadn't appeared in that exact moment during Sal's video, we would all be sitting her today convinced that WG's actions were beyond suspicious and all points to him. The threads were so rapid that it was hard to keep up. Can anyone post a thorough overview of WG and how he was cleared? Has he been heard from again?

And finally, maybe I've missed something, but "bald" vs. "dreads" is a big difference. How did the other guy fall off the radar?

I by no means think that JM is innocent. I guess I'm trying to reverse logic now and think of loopholes that the defense is going to try to find in the case.

BBM
UVa rush is in January, and pledging is that Spring.

 

[joerose]

Look at the Sal's video much more closely. Look at as the WG enters the frame he looks to be walking kind of diagonally and as he is walking at one point he turns his head and stares in HG's direction and continues walking to were he stops and pulls out his phone. It's kind of strange.

I think it looked like he was involved. It looked like the whole thing was planned out and done in sync. He looks like he communicated with someone and got right in step behind her and then LJ got in step at the end of the crowd and moved up next to her. Poor Hannah!

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I've thought the same thing all along. I'm pretty sure this is the time of year when pledging takes place. Can anyone confirm if that was going on at UVA?

I've also thought back to my college days and the ONLY time my girlfriends and I ventured from each other is if there was a boy involved. No one wants to play third wheel and a girl has more confidence being alone during those kind of encounters. It seems backwards but unfortunately is how we think during those days of innocence and coming of age. I was guilty of leaving my friends and also letting my friends leave me if a guy was waiting on the other end. Why not? A guy can protect us right? It's a safe pass-off right?
I've been haunted by her demeanor in the first video/picture of her starting her night in her apartment. She looks beyond happy, excited, confident. She looks like she's on top of the world. It just appears to me that she has that air of a girl finally meeting someone she's been interested in. That leads me to think that something either happened through social media that baited her in the direction or she got lost on her way to meet the good person and JM caught her at a vulnerable moment when she was tired and defeated and he positioned himself as saving the day and getting her back to her apartment/friends.

I'll also add that I've been bothered by the WG. I know that he's been cleared as suspect but if JM hadn't appeared in that exact moment during Sal's video, we would all be sitting her today convinced that WG's actions were beyond suspicious and all points to him. The threads were so rapid that it was hard to keep up. Can anyone post a thorough overview of WG and how he was cleared? Has he been heard from again?

And finally, maybe I've missed something, but "bald" vs. "dreads" is a big difference. How did the other guy fall off the radar?

I by no means think that JM is innocent. I guess I'm trying to reverse logic now and think of loopholes that the defense is going to try to find in the case.

There was some sorority recruiting activity going on in September, according to these links:

http://virginiaisc.com/recruitment/informal-recruitment/
When is Informal Recruitment?

For the 2014-2015 academic school year, Informal Recruitment dates are still being determined. Last year, Informal Recruitment began on Sunday, September 8th, and continued until Sunday, September 22nd, when PNMs received their bid cards. Registration for Informal Recruitment goes until the first day of the first round.

http://virginiaisc.com/recruitment/calendar-of-recruitment-schedules/
Calendar of Recruitment Schedules

Fall 2014 Informal Recruitment and Spring 2015 Formal Recruitment Schedule

 

[joerose]

Yeah. LE is actually pissing me off with their tactics. So many things still don't add up. I keep coming back to the video in front of Sal's where we see WG, HG, and JM all in the same shot.

WG's behavior just doesn't make any sense. HG traveled down Preston Ave, took a right on 2nd street passing Fenilli's and then entered the downtown mall area from 2nd street. The earliest WG could have seen HG is when she entered the downtown mall from second street.

I've attached a map to this comment that shows the relevant route HG traveled. Fenilli's to Sal's is three minutes. The time it would take to travel from the Downtown mall entrance to Sal's is even shorter! WG would only have a matter of seconds to observe HG and then quicken his pace to surpass her... only to wait, very creepy like, to follow her. WG knew HG was coming his way, WG waited for HG, and WG followed HG. Perhaps it's not a coincidence WG and JM changed their travel paths to follow HG. From what we know about JM, he really does not appear to be very bright. At this point, I think that he may have had help and I think WG was that help.View attachment 61451

Well said sixecho. Thank you.

 

[LI-Mom]

LE has never specifically said they have his car on video. The quote was from Mooney 'we have them leaving Tempo together' which implied several times to be from witness testimony. It is in the press conference.

"His car was seen leaving the area on video" are his exact words. http://youtu.be/2zEwZzxbZyA

 

[bakerlady]

I am either misunderstanding or am just confused. The guy following Hannah is WG, and he's white, so why would they release a description of WG being black? I am assuming that is what you mean...that the description released was based on the person following her, which is WG.

Also, McGrady's is nowhere near the downtown mall, so WG wouldn't have been the one to interact with her at McGrady's.

Please clarify...I may just be misinterpreting what you're saying.

BBM=yes that is what I am saying. Please point me to a link that says the guy in the Tuel's video is WG. I have never seen LE say that so maybe I am confused but a link sure would be nice. And how can you tell race from that Tuel's video because I sure can't.

Also, I never said McGrady's in my post so I don't know what you are referring to. I said the Tuel's video, not Sal's, not McGrady's. The bouncer quoted in my post was from Fusion on the mall, not McGrady's. Also I have come to understand that the fusion bouncer IS WG and he was cleared because he was working all night. I am looking for the links about him so I will post it when I find it.

Hannah's interaction with the bouncer at McGrady's was different. She did not say 'I'm ok I'm just walking' She approached and tried to get inside and was turned away.

 

[Quill]

Hannah's friends have said that she was not involved in sorority recruitment. I do not have the link. It is buried way back in the early threads when we first hashed this out. We had a lot of good info posted ruling that out. Also, informal recruitment, which is what UVA has in the fall, is only a small number of chapters who have low numbers and it is usually on a really small scale. Sometimes, if all of the groups had a successful spring recruitment, they might not have any groups having informal. Instead of large groups of girls all trekking though sorority houses, think a handful going out to lunch. All groups do not participate in informal. I am not a UVA person, but this is pretty standard in my area and most others that I'm familiar with. JMO based on having two daughters currently in college.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think it looked like he was involved. It looked like the whole thing was planned out and done in sync. He looks like he communicated with someone and got right in step behind her and then LJ got in step at the end of the crowd and moved up next to her. Poor Hannah!

I agree. Something makes me suspicious of WG.

 

[ThinkHard]

On the other thread we were discussing the semantics of longos phrasing of "had her world turned upside down"

Another poster brought up some great points. But basically discussing what could that phrasing mean...I didn't have time to read through everything that's been posted on this board, but have you guys already dissected this to death.

Because the hunch we were leaning towards was that perhaps so much of her behavior/walk to the downtown mall that night could have been prompted by something that happened at the party she was previously at. If something happened there, that turned her world upside down ..... Finding something out about a friend/roommate, bf type person cheating on her, with a friend, a boy tried to take advantage of her/assault her there, this boy was her friends bf...she was ashamed, her friends thought she was over reacting....so many possibilities....but say something just rocked her emotionally....I can see someone in that state wanting to take off, get away from the party, avoid her friends....walk and walk and walk...and perhaps even be in a f-it mood where her guard is lowered to strangers. A state of mind that may cause her to make choices she might not otherwise.

 

[Bonacker]

Because the hunch we were leaning towards was that perhaps so much of her behavior/walk to the downtown mall that night could have been prompted by something that happened at the party she was previously at. If something happened there, that turned her world upside down ..... Finding something out about a friend/roommate, bf type person cheating on her, with a friend, a boy tried to take advantage of her/assault her there, this boy was her friends bf...she was ashamed, her friends thought she was over reacting....so many possibilities....

Totally agree. IMO, she would only leave her friends to walk out alone for one of two reasons: to meet a boy/romantic interest (joyously) or to "walk it off" (already in distress) after something went wrong with a romance. I think those are really the only plausible explanations for an apparently fairly straight-laced/athletic/slightly square-looking college sophomore to walk out beyond her usual neighborhood alone (esp. if sorority pledge activity is ruled out).

I also cannot believe she would try to enter a bar like McGrady's to drink alone; if she tried to get in, it was because she thought friends might be inside. Speaking as a former college girl myself. The vast, vast majority of college girls do not just ditch friends to wander out to off campus bars to drink alone. Young women's college drinking is social. I even seriously doubt she'd be at all psyched to drink a beer with some random dude (JLM) who offered her a ride; I think if she sipped beer at Tempo it would have been out of social awkwardness.

So what I see happening is: I think she headed out either looking for romance (wearing that short top, which, again, looks a bit to me like a sweet but not terribly cool girl dressing to look like hot stuff for a boy) or wanting to walk off romance gone wrong . . . . and that, while walking, she had a GPS-direction snafu that sent her to the Mall by mistake.

 

[ThinkHard]

Totally agree. IMO, she would only leave her friends to walk out alone for one of two reasons: to meet a boy/romantic interest (joyously) or to "walk it off" (already in distress) after something went wrong with a romance. I think those are really the only plausible explanations for an apparently fairly straight-laced/athletic/slightly square-looking college sophomore to walk out beyond her usual neighborhood alone (esp. if sorority pledge activity is ruled out).

I also cannot believe she would try to enter a bar like McGrady's to drink alone; if she tried to get in, it was because she thought friends might be inside. Speaking as a former college girl myself. The vast, vast majority of college girls do not just ditch friends to wander out to off campus bars to drink alone. Young women's college drinking is social. I even seriously doubt she'd be at all psyched to drink a beer with some random dude (JLM) who offered her a ride; I think if she sipped beer at Tempo it would have been out of social awkwardness.

So what I see happening is: I think she headed out either looking for romance (wearing that short top, which, again, looks a bit to me like a sweet but not terribly cool girl dressing to look like hot stuff for a boy) or wanting to walk off romance gone wrong . . . . and that, while walking, she had a GPS-direction snafu that sent her to the Mall by mistake.

Lets suppose for a moment that it was some kind of romance gone wrong that caused Hannah to need to get away from where she was....I suppose some people might just naturally turn inward and need time to themselves when processing any kind of bad news....but I would think if a romance didn't go the way HG wanted in the sense, he was with someone else, or he ignored her, was mean to her....I would think she would turn to her friends in something like that...

It makes me wonder if whatever happened was more substantial or significant then maybe a wayward crush not working out situation....it makes me think its more likely at least one of her friends was somehow involved in why she was upset, or she was too ashamed of something to tell her friends. Something makes me think she didn't want to be near that party, or her friends for whatever reason.


Maybe what we are perceiving as disoriented but purposeful walking was the result of being hyper focused on the thoughts going on in her head, so she was ramped up, but not all that in tune with her surroundings.

Also a friend fight, might explain why she wasnt reported missing Saturday morning....maybe her friends/roommates thought she was with other friends cooling off?

Again I don't think whatever happened at that party or possibly with her friends is what led to or caused what happened to her that night. Thats on JLM. But it may help us understand how someone as innocent seeming as HG ended up crossing paths with JLM that night. And perhaps another possibility fr her state of mind that night.

 

[JohnTate90210]

I don't think we've been given the correct, full last text, nor it's time. I do believe it was in response to someone probably texting her, and saying "Hey where are you?" or "You coming to so and so's?" Maybe someone that had seen her leave one of the other parties, or someone that was looking for her at the last party that she didn't make it to. I don't know. But I just feel like it was a text in response to a text.

Plus we heard she had been texting for part of the night, but again, no idea about what, or times. Guess that stuff will come out in a trial?

My guess is that JM sparked up conversation by asking her what she'd been doing that night. She mentioned the party and he asked where and filed the fact away. A bit later he used her phone to tweet that she was still in the party area. I really don't think she was lost. She wasn't new in town and her path seems pretty dead set.

 

[Dockins]

I'm just speculating here, because I have done this once or twice when I was young after finding my crush/bf was cheating. Perhaps she left the party and went looking for 'him'. Usually, I had friends in tow trying to catch my guy in the act, though. It could explain the unaccounted for time, and why she seemed to everywhere that night. Maybe she heard he was down there somewhere, and wanted to see for herself. This is just an opinion from the statement that her world was turned upside down from Longo. It really doesn't change the outcome, but may explain why she was alone and seemingly meandering.

 

[Skigirl]

My guess is that JM sparked up conversation by asking her what she'd been doing that night. She mentioned the party and he asked where and filed the fact away. A bit later he used her phone to tweet that she was still in the party area. I really don't think she was lost. She wasn't new in town and her path seems pretty dead set.

If she wasn't lost, why do police say she texted friends she was heading in one direction on one street, when she was heading in a different direction on a different street. This was prior to the final text. They said she was in contact with friends throughout the evening. If she knew where she was, why would she lie?