Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Skigirl]

I can see her being lost, but why not use her i5 to GPS her home or to party or wherever she was going? Or call car ride service?

Low/running out battery + intoxication/not the best judgment + taxis in college town take forever.

 

[Skigirl]

Why would she have just not gone home? She could have had her i5 guide her home; literally step by step. She could have called a ride service common to many college campuses and environs. Someone at party she had left offered to walk her home. Someone at McGrady's offered to help her. It makes little sense that she willingly got into JM's car, IMO.

Oh, LE changed the story. Last text now coincidentally timed to around 1:20-1:40 when it is purported she was in Tempo with JM. Pretty big time discrepancy for them to not get right.

Sorry, I'm missing your point. In your view, is LE enforcement lying about evidence from HG's multiple texts that she was lost/disoriented and also about the time of her last text?

 

[LI-Mom]

ITA. I think the weird but simple explanation that she was completely and utterly lost in the town where she went to college is the right one, as hard as that is to imagine for people who don't tend to get lost. I have a horrible sense of direction so it's easier for me to believe, but I do understand why people are baffled by that explanation. I think she was starting to get a little panicked by the time she was on camera at Sal's and that is why she was moving so much faster than everyone else in that hunched posture. I think her phone's battery was really low and close to dying and that may even explain why it goes dead after her last text at 1:06 or 1:20, depending on which news story you believe. If her phone was dead and she was alone on the Mall with no way to even call a cab or a friend at nearing 2:00 AM, a ride with JM would probably have seemed like the safest, not the most dangerous, alternative to walking home at that hour.

What if...JM lured her to his car to charge her phone? What if she never intended to get in his car? He could have told her he has a charger, she can stand outside the car while it charges, and then when they were there he did something to knock her out and put her in the car? After last call the mall must empty out because nothing is open. Maybe just waiting 10-15 minutes by his car was enough time for the area to become mostly empty.

Just thinking.

 

[Skigirl]

What if...JM lured her to his car to charge her phone? What if she never intended to get in his car? He could have told her he has a charger, she can stand outside the car while it charges, and then when they were there he did something to knock her out and put her in the car? After last call the mall must empty out because nothing is open. Maybe just waiting 10-15 minutes by his car was enough time for the area to become mostly empty.

Just thinking.

Could be... but given how comfortable she got with him so quickly (literally two minutes after he turns heel to follow her he's walking lock-step with her to a bar, with his arm casually thrown around her according to WG the witness and what many of us think we see in the video), I tend to think he seemed sweet and friendly and like he was harmless and she trusted him. When she was running under the overpass, the boogeyman she was imagining was a homeless guy who would run up from the shadows and tackle her. Not some friendly, goofy guy with dreads who would walk up, offer to help, and buy her a drink...

 

[Jmm124567]

Having both a pretty good sense of direction and having attended Uva undergrad, I think it's completely plausible she was legitimately lost/turned around. In fact, I was nearly certain of this when she was first reported missing. As first years, everyone lives in the dorms, and usually sticks close to grounds or the rugby road area, so she had only really lived "in town" for a couple weeks as she began her second year. I was confused by the whole mall area all through college, mostly because we were never downtown much, and because Preston and West Main are parallel roads that lead to different sides of a pedestrian mall with few cut-throughs. Also, Main kind of turns into Water St, and Preston kind of turns into Market, both somewhat inexplicably, and neither really enter the Mall. Finally, the area between her apartment and Mcgradys is sketchy, and it does not get any less sketchy most of the way to the mall. So, it seems unlikely she would willingly walk that route late night unless she was lost.

What is sketchy about that area? I've seen a couple people mention that Grady Ave. is sketchy I think they called it "shady grady."

 

[Daae]

I read somewhere that WG went in to the police station before he was cleared as a POI. This occurred after the videos were made public. I would think that LE would have reviewed the video with WG in great detail. WG would have noticed JLM in the video immediately! IMO, WG identified LJM as the guy who put his arm around Hannah and walked off with her. LE may not have wanted to reveal LJM's identity before they had a chance to speak to him and obtain the warrant for his vehicle.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I read somewhere that WG went in to the police station before he was cleared as a POI. This occurred after the videos were made public. I would think that LE would have reviewed the video with WG in great detail. WG would have noticed JLM in the video immediately! IMO, WG identified LJM as the guy who put his arm around Hannah and walked off with her. LE may not have wanted to reveal LJM's identity before they had a chance to speak to him and obtain the warrant for his vehicle.

What do you think he was up to with that ducking to wait for her to pass and doing something with his phone?

 

[Jmm124567]

What do you think he was up to with that ducking to wait for her to pass and doing something with his phone?

Was he being a good Samaritan or just some creepy middle aged guy? Who knows. He acted like he stopped to send a text because it would look weird if he just stopped and stood there doing nothing.

 

[Daae]

What do you think he was up to with that ducking to wait for her to pass and doing something with his phone?

WG may have had questionable intentions but gave up trying to pick-up Hannah when LJM entered the scene. WG probably had a reasonable alibi. I think the cell phone thing was WG trying to look casual as Hannah passed him.

 

[Conductor71]

Sorry, I'm missing your point. In your view, is LE enforcement lying about evidence from HG's multiple texts that she was lost/disoriented and also about the time of her last text?

It is a possibility. LE can and do fabricate evidence, and it is perfectly legal from what I have read. It seems odd to mix up something that can easily be established by looking at records, interviewing friends, etc. only my opinion. Just my oponion based on other odd info releases in the case.

 

[klily444]

I read somewhere that WG went in to the police station before he was cleared as a POI. This occurred after the videos were made public. I would think that LE would have reviewed the video with WG in great detail. WG would have noticed JLM in the video immediately! IMO, WG identified LJM as the guy who put his arm around Hannah and walked off with her. LE may not have wanted to reveal LJM's identity before they had a chance to speak to him and obtain the warrant for his vehicle.

Yes, IF they had the video in their hands before WG showed up at the station. I remember the footage was trickling in as LE said others were working on getting surveillance tapes to them. We never even heard back about the bank, and we assumed the bank only had footage of the inside, not the outside. My point is, it's hard to tell what video they had back and when.

 

[Daae]

Yes, IF they had the video in their hands before WG showed up at the station. I remember the footage was trickling in as LE said others were working on getting surveillance tapes to them. We never even heard back about the bank, and we assumed the bank only had footage of the inside, not the outside. My point is, it's hard to tell what video they had back and when.

I agree 100%! WG met with LE after the video from the mall was released.

 

[FindHG]

Having both a pretty good sense of direction and having attended Uva undergrad, I think it's completely plausible she was legitimately lost/turned around. In fact, I was nearly certain of this when she was first reported missing. As first years, everyone lives in the dorms, and usually sticks close to grounds or the rugby road area, so she had only really lived "in town" for a couple weeks as she began her second year. I was confused by the whole mall area all through college, mostly because we were never downtown much, and because Preston and West Main are parallel roads that lead to different sides of a pedestrian mall with few cut-throughs. Also, Main kind of turns into Water St, and Preston kind of turns into Market, both somewhat inexplicably, and neither really enter the Mall. Finally, the area between her apartment and Mcgradys is sketchy, and it does not get any less sketchy most of the way to the mall. So, it seems unlikely she would willingly walk that route late night unless she was lost.

Thank you so much for posting your first hand experience. It helps to understand things better. Hope you're well and stay around.

 

[strawb93]

I had been thinking they must have a really strong case but now thinking about it all, I am not sure they do.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no doubt he did it, but whether that will hold up in court...I'm not so sure.

 

[Jmm124567]

I had been thinking they must have a really strong case but now thinking about it all, I am not sure they do.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no doubt he did it, but whether that will hold up in court...I'm not so sure.

What makes you think that all of a sudden? I'm willing to bet the prosecutor would not have charged JM with abduction with intent to defile if he didn't feel he could likely get a conviction and I think we are going to see murder charges coming soon.

 

[strawb93]

Maybe they have evidence that will swing it, but as far as the eyewitnesses go, the videos, and the fact that her body was so far gone when they found it, I just don't know.

I hope they have something really solid that we just aren't privy to. Something that links JLM to that scene. I think that's what it hinges on.

 

[Emaa]

What makes you think that all of a sudden? I'm willing to bet the prosecutor would not have charged JM with abduction with intent to defile if he didn't feel he could likely get a conviction and I think we are going to see murder charges coming soon.

I remember the first press conference where Longo gave JLM's description but not his name. He seemed quite agitated that the CA didn't think there was enough evidence at that point to bring any charges. And again in the press conference describing how JLM had come into the police station and was subsequently charged with reckless driving. IMO the abduction charges came once they had forensic test results, perhaps even DNA, that proved something bad happened to Hannah after she left with JLM.

 

[alreetlike]

I can see her being lost, but why not use her i5 to GPS her home or to party or wherever she was going? Or call car ride service?

On the phone aspect: low battery/signal, I would guess. I've been slightly lost with only about 8% battery remaining and by the time the map loaded it was fast approaching 5% and I wasn't much further forward in terms of understanding where the hell I needed to be. I can see someone trying to manage without a map if their battery is running low, trying to preserve it.

I don't know about car ride services in the area so can't comment on that.

 

[jamicat]

Why would she have just not gone home? She could have had her i5 guide her home; literally step by step. She could have called a ride service common to many college campuses and environs. Someone at party she had left offered to walk her home. Someone at McGrady's offered to help her. It makes little sense that she willingly got into JM's car, IMO.

Oh, LE changed the story. Last text now coincidentally timed to around 1:20-1:40 when it is purported she was in Tempo with JM. Pretty big time discrepancy for them to not get right.

I have no experience with LE, but I do with college kids. Lots of experience as I have a lot of kids and they have their friends. I also have a lot of experience in getting lost. So I can just see Hannah right now just bee-bopping along thinking she is heading one way, while actually going the other, texting friends or using the phone for other things. Running down the battery as she does so. These kids seem to always be low in battery, and remember, it's at the end of a very long day that has moved into the early mornings of a second day. Not to mention she is drunk. So she finds herself at the mall instead of where she wanted to go, with no purse, possibly no id or money since she didn't need it for her plans for the evening and a cell phone running out of batteres. LE has full record of her texts and calls, and what they did release indicate that she was lost and then the phone is silent, something one does not often get with a full battery with these kids.

I think she could have been looking for some classmates, familiar faces to bum a ride maybe. She had gone to McGrady's in the past with classmates, and that seems to be the place at the mall where UVA kids tend to go to the most, but even then undergrads don't tend to go there, from what I gather So she took a peek there to see if there was anyone she knew. I think the prospect of walking back did not appeal to her. Tired, now not confident of the way back, the drink catching up to her so feeling thirsty. And she runs into a someone with a nice voice and demeanor who asks her what's the matter, ;pretty lady? Yes, it was foolish of her to go along with him, but he probably told her he worked at UVAMC and may have even had the id with him. Offered her a much wanted drink and the car was right there. It would have taken but minutes to get her back to where she wanted to go by car, so she decided to take the risk since the guy seemed so nice. Probably thought providence was smiling on her providing this ride at that time. If she didn't have her ID, cards or money with her, it would be a hassle getting a cab (might not be that easy anyways finding one) or a bus. Easier to take the ride offer. Makes perfect sense to me, though we'll never know for sure what exactly happened here.

I thought the last text was timed at 1:06 AM. There were some issues about that text possibly not going through for whatever reason when it was written.

 

[jamicat]

What does everyone think happened to Hannah?

I think that she got lost, not even knowing she was going the wrong way, probably texting and using her cell phone the whole time on things other than GPS because she thought she knew her way. Found herself in the mall area which probably flustered her as she was so turned around. Didn't help that she had been drinking. Low phone battery by then, that dies out. It's been a long day. Happens all of the time with young people--always having low and dead batteries when needing use of the phone. No money or ID since she was figuring on staying right in her area and not needing either. Looking for familiar faces, hoping for a lift back. JM runs into her, and asks her in a nice way, what is wrong? Offers her a ride, shows her his UVAMC id probably on a lanyard. Says, let's get a quick beer before we head out, which she probably welcomed as she would be thirsty by then. Sneaks her through a side door to an off area of Tempo or maybe she did go in, or maybe just waited right outside. Spikes the drink with something that he carries around just for that purpose She gets woozier right on schedule and needs help to the car, something Abby at Tempo witnessed and stated. He pitches her phone into some storm sewer or other water source which would kill any signal just like that or maybe even in the trash--don't know if one can find a phone with a dead battery if it's pitched like that. She'd be no trouble to help into his car, parked right near by. Dogs traced her scent to Market St, where it then ended, and I think that was where JM was parked.

No problem that time of the night to shoot right to where he went. Knowing the area, knowing the woods, he knows, as a lot of young people tend to know what properties are abandoned in the sense that one can go there to smoke some pot, hang out, do whatever without LE finding you and the neighbors are far enough away, driveway long enough that no one likely to notice in the wee hours. Took her there, raped and killed her. Pitched her body into the ditch. Was proably home by early morning. Could have pitched his clothes and whatever he took of hers in any random trashcan. By the time LE was searching, any and alll of that would have been in the landfills. Hopefully, he did not pitch everything and some forensic evidence is found, some critical item, but who knows.

I hope that she was so drugged, and was not aware of what happened to her. That would have been ever so merciful.

I don't think he thought there would be such a big deal made by LE, MSM and the community. He certainly did not count on the scrutiny he got when he was IDed from the surveillance tapes. It didn't take LE long to place him as the last person to have been with her. He correctly surmised that that did not mean squat in terms of booking him, pressing charges, and they could not force him to answer any questions. But they could and did search/seize his car and search the apartement which I think was a rude shock to him. I truly think the way he looked at it was "so I picked up a girl that night, bought her a drink and left the area with her. So what? I have no idea what happened to her when we went our separate ways.

And it would be up to the DA to prove that he, JM, killed her.