Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[zapped]

Im pulling this over from another thread where it got deleted for being off topic.Hopefully this is the right spot for it.

I keep coming back to the statement made by Chief Longo that "Hannah had her world turned upside down" that night. Reportedly she was drinking at the party and I think a lot of people have left it at that.

When I hear hear the words "world turned upside down" theres no immediate connection with drinking, and Im from the area so would be familiar if the expression were used that way here.

Maybe it is in other parts of the country and if so it would be great if someone could clarify???

My thinking is that Hannah received a shock that night. Examples would be going to the party and catching her boyfriend cheating with a friend,having a bad breakup, hearing that a close relative or friend had died, or that her parents were divorcing or losing their job(s), putting her schooling in jeopardy.

All just examples of course.

To me that would explain her behavior that night and her appearing to be lost in an area she should have been familiar with. She may have just been walking as an instinctive way of dealing with whatever pain or emotions caused this state and was so deep in thought that she failed to realize where she was headed. Some of us dont like to sit still when were upset.

Ive done this.

Once during a bad breakup, I got in my truck and started driving and when I realized where I was at I had driven all the way to Tennessee to visit my grandma's grave.

If something like this had happened to Hannah it would certainly explain why she seemed to be blowing off her friends that night as well.

In addition, her state of mind and emotional duress could have caused her to be much drunker than normal.

Food for thought at least.

 

[Conductor71]

I think something strange was going on with her even before she left The Corner area that seems like more than just drunkenness or pot or cocaine to me -- almost like she was in a fugue state. I do think she was totally lost and confused.

I've now heard a couple things about what was said at McGrady's -- first that she tried to gain admittance (press conference) and then that she said, "I'm fine, I'm just walking," (a later source, cannot remember which). The latter quote, if accurate (if anyone has a link that would be so appreciated) is downright weird given what we see of her on the McGrady's video and what we know of her intent that evening, which was clearly to be out having fun at parties and hanging out with friends.

I find her long walkabout to be very, very weird; especially that she ended up walking near the gas station in what looks like the most pedestrian-unfriendly area imaginable. None of the theories that have been floated really do it for me. .

<snipped for space>

Agreed. I think that both HG and MH were lured away or otherwise isolated from their friends and watched for some time before they disappeared. It doesn't have to be someone they had romantic interest in. Rather someone who blended in easily at both frat parties and metal concerts. They both repeatedly declined offers of help. This is where I have big issue in this being JM because I cannot see how he fits with the sort of profile everyone has going on him (he is impulsive, not bright enough to have pre-planned, etc.) JMO

 

[Jmm124567]

Another long shot but going to throw it out there&#8230; The Sal's video has been strange to me on several counts already discussed here but it's also bothered me how JM is walking and doesn't even seem to turn his head her direction yet somehow seconds later is following her. Did he "eye" her walking towards him before the area that the video catches? He doesn't miss a beat.
And then it just dawned on me that possibly he somehow picked up on white guy's actions (although it's not apparent anywhere on video) and positioned himself as "protecting" HG from the WG. Maybe that's how he was able to get his arm around her so fast. "Hey, I just noticed this guy watching you. Stick with me." And then it would seem even more convincing considering WG DOES keep following them. Maybe JM looked like a real saint at that moment and she started to let her guard down with him. He buys her drink, promises to get her home safe, etc. ESPECIALLY if her phone battery was dying/dead.
This could lead to WG going to police station because he knows that he was busted following her and wanted to get his story to them before JM or someone else could.

Yeah JM likely turned his head when he was off camera.

 

[Jmm124567]

<snipped for space>

Agreed. I think that both HG and MH were lured away or otherwise isolated from their friends and watched for some time before they disappeared. It doesn't have to be someone they had romantic interest in. Rather someone who blended in easily at both frat parties and metal concerts. They both repeatedly declined offers of help. This is where I have big issue in this being JM because I cannot see how he fits with the sort of profile everyone has going on him (he is impulsive, not bright enough to have pre-planned, etc.) JMO

JM was at the mall. He couldn't have stalked HG while she was walking before arriving at the DTM.

I have no experience with LE, but I do with college kids. Lots of experience as I have a lot of kids and they have their friends. I also have a lot of experience in getting lost. So I can just see Hannah right now just bee-bopping along thinking she is heading one way, while actually going the other, texting friends or using the phone for other things. Running down the battery as she does so. These kids seem to always be low in battery, and remember, it's at the end of a very long day that has moved into the early mornings of a second day. Not to mention she is drunk. So she finds herself at the mall instead of where she wanted to go, with no purse, possibly no id or money since she didn't need it for her plans for the evening and a cell phone running out of batteres. LE has full record of her texts and calls, and what they did release indicate that she was lost and then the phone is silent, something one does not often get with a full battery with these kids.

I think she could have been looking for some classmates, familiar faces to bum a ride maybe. She had gone to McGrady's in the past with classmates, and that seems to be the place at the mall where UVA kids tend to go to the most, but even then undergrads don't tend to go there, from what I gather So she took a peek there to see if there was anyone she knew. I think the prospect of walking back did not appeal to her. Tired, now not confident of the way back, the drink catching up to her so feeling thirsty. And she runs into a someone with a nice voice and demeanor who asks her what's the matter, ;pretty lady? Yes, it was foolish of her to go along with him, but he probably told her he worked at UVAMC and may have even had the id with him. Offered her a much wanted drink and the car was right there. It would have taken but minutes to get her back to where she wanted to go by car, so she decided to take the risk since the guy seemed so nice. Probably thought providence was smiling on her providing this ride at that time. If she didn't have her ID, cards or money with her, it would be a hassle getting a cab (might not be that easy anyways finding one) or a bus. Easier to take the ride offer. Makes perfect sense to me, though we'll never know for sure what exactly happened here.

I thought the last text was timed at 1:06 AM. There were some issues about that text possibly not going through for whatever reason when it was written.

McGrady's is not in the mall. It is on Grady Ave. right where Grady Ave. turns into Preston Ave. McGrady's is about a 15 minute walk from where HG was partying. Here's the thing though it has been reported she left the party at 11:50pm. She arrived at McGrady's at 12:45am. She appears to have been walking around from 11:50-12:45 but we don't know exactly where. According to the surveillance video from McGrady's she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM but we don't know were she got on Preston Ave. at. When she left the party she had to have been walking in the direction towards the downtown mall then at one point or multiple points she changed direction walking towards Preston Ave. and ended up on Preston. She then walks up Preston in the opposite direction of the DTM heading to McGrady's.

 

[jamicat]

I agree. They charged him on the day Longo said they should be getting the forensic results back. I think they found at least one piece of HG clothing likely in his car and then had to get it tested to make sure it was hers.

I think Longo really wanted to charge JM with something more than reckless driving and using his legal background (he's an attorney) found the Abduction with Intent to Defile, and was able to convince the DA to levy those charges. Though I hope LE found some meaningful DNA in the car, on clothes, like semen to nail the "Defile" part of the charge, I think the "Abduct" part is set with the description "Abby" at Temp gave of a staggering, unbalanced Hannah. A case can be made that Hannah was in no shape for consensual sex.

Hopefully, LE has enough evidence for that charge and more. If LE did find some of Hannah's clothing in JM's car, that would be great evidence. With just surface DNA of Hannahs, like sweat, nose mucos, saliva, hair, in the car, all that could be proven is that she did indeed get into the car Without more evidence the trail of Hannah's journey that day ends right there with the rest just theories.

 

[memorialstadium]

JM was at the mall. He couldn't have stalked HG while she was walking before arriving at the DTM.



McGrady's is not in the mall. It is on Grady Ave. right where Grady Ave. turns into Preston Ave. McGrady's is about a 15 minute walk from where HG was partying. Here's the thing though it has been reported she left the party at 11:50pm. She arrived at McGrady's at 12:45am. She appears to have been walking around from 11:50-12:45 but we don't know exactly where. According to the surveillance video from McGrady's she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston Ave. in the opposite direction of the DTM but we don't know were she got on Preston Ave. at. When she left the party she had to have been walking in the direction towards the downtown mall then at one point or multiple points she changed direction walking towards Preston Ave. and ended up on Preston. She then walks up Preston in the opposite direction of the DTM heading to McGrady's.

This bothers me too. If she came directly from the party to McGrady's she would have been walking in the other direction.

 

[Jmm124567]

This bothers me too. If she came directly from the party to McGrady's she would have been walking in the other direction.

Yeah she would have walked down 14th St. to Grady Ave. then down Grady Ave. heading in the direction towards the DTM to McGrady's. Instead she arrived to McGrady's by walking up Preston in the opposite direction of the DTM.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Another long shot but going to throw it out there&#8230; The Sal's video has been strange to me on several counts already discussed here but it's also bothered me how JM is walking and doesn't even seem to turn his head her direction yet somehow seconds later is following her. Did he "eye" her walking towards him before the area that the video catches? He doesn't miss a beat.
And then it just dawned on me that possibly he somehow picked up on white guy's actions (although it's not apparent anywhere on video) and positioned himself as "protecting" HG from the WG. Maybe that's how he was able to get his arm around her so fast. "Hey, I just noticed this guy watching you. Stick with me." And then it would seem even more convincing considering WG DOES keep following them. Maybe JM looked like a real saint at that moment and she started to let her guard down with him. He buys her drink, promises to get her home safe, etc. ESPECIALLY if her phone battery was dying/dead.
This could lead to WG going to police station because he knows that he was busted following her and wanted to get his story to them before JM or someone else could.

I've wondered if that group of guys (and one girl) behind her were heckling her and that's what drew the attention of WG and JM. She may have been having some anxiety over them (which I would have), and could that be the "physical distress" reported by WG?

 

[Jmm124567]

I tend to agree with your theory. Just wanted to add that perhaps HG noticed or sensed WG following her (she was alert enough to pick up her pace when in the unsafe area near the gas station, thus showing an awareness for her safety), so willingly allowed JM to walk beside her. She may have even asked him to pretend he was her friend and make it look like they knew each other so WG would back off. Maybe JM suggested to HG that they go into a bar for a drink to allow WG to clear the area, thus explaining why somebody like HG would agree to hang out with JM. Didn't MH try to get strangers at the Metallica concert to pretend they were together in order to sneak back into JPJ arena? Anyway, I think HG may have viewed JM as her 'hero' or 'saviour' in that she was lost, tired, alone, drunk, and maybe scared. If JM could convince his friends and family that he was a 'giant teddy bear', then I don't think he would have any trouble smooth talking an innocent and vulnerable 18 year old girl. Once JM got HG into the bar I suspect he roofied her drink, which pretty much incapacitated her for the rest of the night, hence the sightings of HG leaning on JM as they left aroun 1:45am.
I don't think we will ever know for sure if WG's intentions for HG were innocent or evil. JMO.

HG did stare at WG as she passed him. She was aware of him.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I can't believe that WG is evil like JM. The odds of both targeting HG are just too far fetched. But he may have just been curious or perverted or just in general no-so-perfect intentions but definitely not JM intentions.

Gee, isn't that how it all starts? He has those thoughts...he's alone...she's alone?

 

[klily444]

Im pulling this over from another thread where it got deleted for being off topic.Hopefully this is the right spot for it.

I keep coming back to the statement made by Chief Longo that "Hannah had her world turned upside down" that night. Reportedly she was drinking at the party and I think a lot of people have left it at that.

When I hear hear the words "world turned upside down" theres no immediate connection with drinking, and Im from the area so would be familiar if the expression were used that way here.

Maybe it is in other parts of the country and if so it would be great if someone could clarify???

My thinking is that Hannah received a shock that night. Examples would be going to the party and catching her boyfriend cheating with a friend,having a bad breakup, hearing that a close relative or friend had died, or that her parents were divorcing or losing their job(s), putting her schooling in jeopardy.

All just examples of course.

To me that would explain her behavior that night and her appearing to be lost in an area she should have been familiar with. She may have just been walking as an instinctive way of dealing with whatever pain or emotions caused this state and was so deep in thought that she failed to realize where she was headed. Some of us dont like to sit still when were upset.

Ive done this.

Once during a bad breakup, I got in my truck and started driving and when I realized where I was at I had driven all the way to Tennessee to visit my grandma's grave.

If something like this had happened to Hannah it would certainly explain why she seemed to be blowing off her friends that night as well.

In addition, her state of mind and emotional duress could have caused her to be much drunker than normal.

Food for thought at least.

Y'all can laugh at me for this, but I just googled "meaning of whole world turned upside down" Here is what I got:
"turn someone's life/world upside down
to change someone's life completely, often in a way that is shocking or upsetting"

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/upside-down

Questions about the evening:
1. Why did she leave the party so quickly? She was there less than an hour
2. Where was she during the time prior to McGrady's?

In my opinion, this didn't have to do with a romantic interest. It was rumored that she wasn't seeing anyone and she wasn't even talking to anymore, and Hannah strikes me as the type that cares more about school, sports, and being with her girlfriends than putting her emotions into a boy. JMO. But it is possible that Longo, having access to her friends and possibly text messages, is alluding to something gone terribly wrong? My instincts tell me that at the first party, her drink was spiked with something...doesn't have to be a rape drug, but something....and she tried to run off the high. As in, make it go away. Then, I believe she was given a date rape drug at Tempo.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

HG did stare at WG as she passed him. She was aware of him.

Who knows what he was doing before he was caught on video? Was he trying to talk to her and she was resisting? I'm not sure that just because he went to the cops that means he wasn't up to something. He may have wanted to get in there to see just how much video they had of him. Who knows? Just because we've been told he's free-and-clear, I don't take that at face value. Longo has said publicly he is performing a tactical investigation.

 

[klily444]

I've wondered if that group of guys (and one girl) behind her were heckling her and that's what drew the attention of WG and JM. She may have been having some anxiety over them (which I would have), and could that be the "physical distress" reported by WG?

I think she was sweaty and appeared to be hurried and confused, and perhaps even teary eyed. She stuck out like a sore thumb on the mall where everyone else was casually going about their business. And she is young...and alone, and likely very anxious at this point. We saw a very brief glimpse of WG on the surveillance video...yes, it did look creepy, but I don't think WG had any intentions of harming her at all. He seems like a nosy neighbor who got caught. I am glad he came forward. Props to him for that, because honestly, it did not look good for him!

 

[jamicat]

Well, her world certainly turned upside down that day. That is even an understatement. For whatever reason that took her to the mall, into JM's arms, his car, led her to her death.

 

[Jmm124567]

Who knows what he was doing before he was caught on video? Was he trying to talk to her and she was resisting? I'm not sure that just because he went to the cops that means he wasn't up to something. He may have wanted to get in there to see just how much video they had of him. Who knows? Just because we've been told he's free-and-clear, I don't take that at face value. Longo has said publicly he is performing a tactical investigation.

I don't think he talked to HG before. When he enters the frame it looks like he is kind of walking diagonally and as he is walking he turns his head in HG direction and walks to were he stops and pulls out his cell phone to look casual.

 

[Skigirl]

You are incorrect about some things. She didn't peek in McGrady's window. There is this deck in front of McGrady's with tables and chairs on it for people who want to drink outside. Right when HG arrived there she stopped at the deck for at least 20 seconds and it looks like she is peeking through the railing. She then walks around the deck which at one point she stumbles off the sidewalk onto the grass and is back on the sidewalk a couple seconds later she doesn't leave McGrady's for 1 minute then come back.

I think you may have seen a shorter version of the video. In the long version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy43pVr2Ixw) but she does disappear from view (of the deck area camera) @1:20 for over a full minute before she reappears @2:57 and stumbles, then walks toward the bouncer.

 

[klily444]

Well, her world certainly turned upside down that day. That is even an understatement. For whatever reason that took her to the mall, into JM's arms, his car, led her to her death.

Agreed. It just seemed that Longo implied her world was turned upside down prior to her encounter with JM. I'm curious about that. We have a hole in our timeline leading up to McGrady's that may explain why she was inclined to fall into the arms of an alleged serial killer.

 

[Jmm124567]

I think you may have seen a shorter version of the video. In the long version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy43pVr2Ixw) but she does disappear from view (of the deck area camera) @1:20 for over a full minute before she reappears @2:57 and stumbles, then walks toward the bouncer.

Wow I must have missed this. So she never did stumble. The other video was edited to remove this gap of time where she is off camera which made it look like she stumbled off the side walk then came back a couple seconds later. She walked up to the McGrady's entrance either to try to get in or to get a better look on the patio. She for a fact did talk to the bouncer you see him walk up to her and you can see her gesturing her left arm as she talks to him. They talked for no more than several seconds. Police were saying the bouncer denied her entry now a person at McGrady's is saying something different.

I wonder what she was doing the 1 minute and 37 seconds she is off the camera. Maybe she walked to the next street right there to look at the sign to see where she was.

 

[Jmm124567]

I think HG may have been aware that she was not completely safe walking around alone that late especially in a crop top. She had that "Hoo's Got Your Back" tweet on Twitter. Somebody mentioned that the area is sketchy. I thought before that HG was walking on main roads likely looking for a bar but maybe she was truly lost and walking on main roads because she may have felt they were safer because there are more cars driving on them and they aren't as dark as the side streets would be. By Shell she was running likely because that area right there would be scary at the time. She may have went into the DTM because there are people around which may have made her feel safe.

 

[Skigirl]

I thought before that HG was walking on main roads looking for a bar but maybe she was truly lost and walking on main roads because she may have felt they were safer because there are more cars driving on them and they aren't as dark as the side streets would be. Based on her running on the Shell video I do think she was somewhat aware of her surroundings.

I just google street view "walked" her entire route from McGrady's to the Mall. It is NASTY and very pedestrian unfriendly. The scale of the streets is big and there's not a lot of human non-car activity during the day, even, so I imagine she passed very few people on foot during her walk. The underpass would have caused me a near-meltdown at night if I were alone, so the running makes sense. The businesses along the route were mostly not retail and I imagine not opened at that time of night, which would have added to the spookiness. I also kept getting confused because streets shoot off in different directions, even though I had the map of where I was in the corner of the screen. I can see being spooked after ten or so minutes of walking that awful route at night. The mall must have seemed very inviting after that pedestrian-unfriendly strip mall route. I can't think of many places I'd less like to walk, even during the day.