Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Conductor71]

There were plenty of people walking there on the mall- why did she not stop and ask someone for help getting to where she was going? She also passed by several bars/nightclubs from the time she turned onto the mall and the time she ran into JM (somewhere between Sal's and Tuel's). She could have easily asked for safe help from a bouncer as opposed to approaching a stranger if she didn't feel comfortable with that.

Obviously we can't get inside her head. I'm just trying to understand why, if she was as lost and totally beside herself with directions in order to end up at the DM as is a working theory, she didn't take the ample opportunity presented there on the DM to get turned back the right way. OR, at the very least, stop walking. And sit down and wait for her friends in one place- such as in front of an open bar that she walked by. One of the first things I learned as a kid from my parents was that if I got lost, not to keep walking around but to stay put :thinking:

This is IMO, is what is so strikingly similar to MH's disappearance. Yes , there is another thread, but I think it is highly relevant here too.

Both girls...

become isolated from friends for reasons no one can explain.
voluntarily go off on their own and disappear within 45 minutes of doing so.
exhibit erratic behavior not adequately explained by drinking too much.
receive offers of help, rides, or walking escort which they decline.
are not really stranded:
HG ends up taking a detour through the DM when she intended to go between residential parties- why not wait for a friend or backtrack to previous party?
MH hitchhikes for a ride when her own car sits nearby in a lot at the arena. Her friends had the keys- why not wait until the concert is over

Maybe all coincidence but given that all friends are on gag order (some since 2009), I would say that this there is more to the story than two girls being preyed upon due to lowered inhibitions, JMO.

 

[Charlie Chan]

I respect your viewpoint but feel that your accusations are a bit misguided. There seems to be this knee jerk reaction at anything that may; however realistic, see a victim as a real person who embraced life as somehow debasing. She was not a soulless Stepford student concerned only with academic achievement. She had hopes, dreams, crushes, and yes flaws. We are not saying she is responsible for what happened that night nor maligning her moral character. We only questioned drug use in the context of helping to fill LE's inadequate explanation of events.

As for taking offense, why aren't we questioning the institutions that take no responsibility in any of this; there is a culture of complicity that no one is talking about. Instead of scolding commentators in MSM for judging HG's drinking, the police might actually take some issue that underage drinking is a contributing factor in becoming an easy target in a college town. It is clearly against the law, and they simply ignore it?! UVA has the perfect opportunity to do the right thing and address the role party culture plays in creating a campus environment that is increasingly unsafe for young women. In ten years time, not one person found guilty of sexual assault on campus has been disciplined. Women, are in fact, discouraged from pressing charges because they are put under gag order. Hear no evil. Speak no evil. See no evil. If we care about victim's rights, we need to redirect our concerns, IMO. It saddens me to hear Hannah's parents speak of how much she esteemed her school, and how they seem simply to have washed their hands of her. That is far more offensive than anything I have encountered here.

For more info:

http://www.readthehook.com/73686/uva-rebuked-feds-furious-over-rape-case-gag-orders

Yes, and to "pile on", it infuriates me that two respected universities, Liberty and Christpher Newport, just let him "slip away into that dark night"......to continue raping (and then adding murdering) his victims. TWO UNIVERSITIES LET HIM "JUST GO".

 

[LI-Mom]

Yes, and to "pile on", it infuriates me that two respected universities, Liberty and Christpher Newport, just let him "slip away into that dark night"......to continue raping (and then adding murdering) his victims. TWO UNIVERSITIES LET HIM "JUST GO".

What could the schools do? If the victims don't press charges I don't think there is anything more the school can do besides expel him. And if the victim presses charges she has to get a conviction for him to be guilty of rape. I'm not really sure why we are holding the schools responsible when they did all they could under the law.

 

[Fancynancy]

Do you recall when Judge Dennis Smith asked him if he was employed in the long version of the court hearing for which there are links up thread? He says "Naaaoooo" with some expression, the most in all the words he's uttered so far. I think he's articulate enough but is protection himself with how little he says and the way he says it. The dumb act isn't washing with me.

In the Galveston video he tried to put a couple sentences together about needing clothes. I doubt hannah was convinced he was an anesthesiologist, is my point and JMO.

 

[Ollie]

Speaking of what if's.... what if HG texted her friends saying she was lost and they had a taxi drivers number and asked him to go get her? Frighting possibility.Would explain why she got in his car

 

[ILOKAL]

Do you recall when Judge Dennis Smith asked him if he was employed in the long version of the court hearing for which there are links up thread? He says "Naaaoooo" with some expression, the most in all the words he's uttered so far. I think he's articulate enough but is protection himself with how little he says and the way he says it. The dumb act isn't washing with me.

As I recall, he also spoke about why he wanted Camblos to be his sole attorney in the Fairfax case. He sounded fairly well spoken.

 

[Skigirl]

Yes, I read that she still had an english accent. I don't remember where I read it, i believe it was a friend of hers.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-What-Happened-There&p=11158839#post11158839

I think she spoke with an American accent:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/27/hannah-graham-description-witty-_n_5891192.html

"In her hometown of Alexandria, Graham is known as whip smart, with broad interests and eclectic tastes in music. She moved from Britain to the U.S. when she was about 6 and was determined to lose her British accent, said Craig Maniglia, her softball coach at West Potomac High School and a family friend who lives in the Grahams' neighborhood."

Kids at that young an age learn accents and languages very quickly and easily.

 

[Skigirl]

What could the schools do? If the victims don't press charges I don't think there is anything more the school can do besides expel him. And if the victim presses charges she has to get a conviction for him to be guilty of rape. I'm not really sure why we are holding the schools responsible when they did all they could under the law.

The second university claims that the first did not share the reason for his dismissal, when law would have allowed it.

 

[Skigirl]

Let's go for a minute with the theory that Hannah was lost, totally turned around, confused, tired, etc. (and that she was not meeting someone, etc.) --

What do we think is then going through her head when we see her in front of Sal's and Tuel's? Is she just continuing to walk until she finds her way back to her apartment/friends up near Wertland? Does she think she is actually going in the right direction now? (she's very briskly walking, as opposed to circling McGrady's for example).

There were plenty of people walking there on the mall- why did she not stop and ask someone for help getting to where she was going? She also passed by several bars/nightclubs from the time she turned onto the mall and the time she ran into JM (somewhere between Sal's and Tuel's). She could have easily asked for safe help from a bouncer as opposed to approaching a stranger if she didn't feel comfortable with that.

Obviously we can't get inside her head. I'm just trying to understand why, if she was as lost and totally beside herself with directions in order to end up at the DM as is a working theory, she didn't take the ample opportunity presented there on the DM to get turned back the right way. OR, at the very least, stop walking. And sit down and wait for her friends in one place- such as in front of an open bar that she walked by. One of the first things I learned as a kid from my parents was that if I got lost, not to keep walking around but to stay put :thinking:

I think she started to recognize things when she got to the Mall or got close to it but was still a little confused about what direction she was walking in. It does not help if you are trying to use your phone to navigate, because you can't turn the iphone upside down and have it show you in the orientation your body is actually in -- it always shows North as North, and so you often have to mentally flip the image on your phone and imagine your body positioned in that orientation.

We know from what the police said that she was going west on Main when she was going east on Preston. So, she wanted to be on Main and probably saw the signs and started to feel relief. She continued to walk a block or two in the wrong direction on Main, but I think she may have gotten her bearings and realized her mistake if she'd been given enough time and probably would have turned back around. If you google street view "walk" both Main and Preston, Main is by far the more pedestrian-friendly, so she would have been able to walk back to her neighborhood on Main instead. I think she just wanted to get the heck out of a situation where she was walking alone for much longer and in the wrong place than intended.

 

[FindHG]

In the Galveston video he tried to put a couple sentences together about needing clothes. I doubt hannah was convinced he was an anesthesiologist, is my point and JMO.

Yep. There's nothing in what we know so far that would make me think that she may have been willing to take a ride. He had to work it and it got him caught. Imagine what people exposed to his various spiels feel like, to hear his voice in their heads, to have that with them. Hope they tell LE everything.

 

[LI-Mom]

The second university claims that the first did not share the reason for his dismissal, when law would have allowed it.

Ok, so he wouldn't have gotten into CNU and that victim wouldn't have been a victim. But that wouldn't have stopped him from attacking others as we have seen. The post I quoted makes it sound like the schools set him free to rape again. There was no way the schools could stop him from doing that, they can't press charges and have him locked up, that's up to the victim.*

* And possibly LE. I think they can bring charges if the victim doesn't want to testify, but the victim has to report it to LE first.

 

[TheBunk]

There is plenty of drug use at UVA and virtually every student there has been super successful so far in life and most will continue to be so after graduating, drug users included.

With that said, I'm not sold that it has anything to do with this case, although it is interesting to read theories. HG had a twitter post about a roommate or friend doing coke, so it's not like it wasn't around. Although I don't recall the tone of the tweet sounding pleased about it.

 

[bessie]

ADMIN NOTE: Reminder. Only one member, Paulap, is verified as an insider in this case.

"Facts" posted by any other members must be backed up with proper link. Rumors will be removed.

:tyou:

 

[Charlie Chan]

What could the schools do? If the victims don't press charges I don't think there is anything more the school can do besides expel him. And if the victim presses charges she has to get a conviction for him to be guilty of rape. I'm not really sure why we are holding the schools responsible when they did all they could under the law.

I made that statement because I think that these Universities should have encouraged the student to press charges and to offer their full support and assistance. instead, I'm somewhat inclined to think that these universities were delighted to see "no charges pressed" i.e. no bad publicity. They removed JM and voila! Problem solved....at least for THEIR UNIVERSITY. It didn't solve the problem for subsequent victims, nor for Hannah. I don't blame the university at all if the victim literally won't press charges, but in the case of JM....if there was not enough evidence to press charges, then why expel JM ? Hmmmmmm..............

 

[Charlie Chan]

Ok, so he wouldn't have gotten into CNU and that victim wouldn't have been a victim. But that wouldn't have stopped him from attacking others as we have seen. The post I quoted makes it sound like the schools set him free to rape again. There was no way the schools could stop him from doing that, they can't press charges and have him locked up, that's up to the victim.*

* And possibly LE. I think they can bring charges if the victim doesn't want to testify, but the victim has to report it to LE first.

If either university had been behind the victims and supportive of her pressing charges, I think he could have been JAILED ! I'm just saying that passing off your problem to another university or into the general population means your moral compass is a bit off.

 

[themom]

I think HG parent's would be amazed at how many people care and are affected by their daughters life and unfortunate death. And be impressed that we all put so much of our personal time into studying streets, and photos, and videos, and records, and analyzing the info and exploring EVERY angle, as to not miss something. All for a girl we have never met! That's what I think they would notice.

I haven't seen a single person make an allegation that HG used drugs. What I have seen is people trying to make sense of that night, no stone unturned.

And saying a college kid may have used marijuana is light years away from saying she's a back alley crack *advertiser censored*. Let's be clear that drug use does not equal bad person, unsuccessful person, etc. And that there are varying degrees of how far people take drug use...

By saying she was drinking that night isn't saying she was a raging alcoholic, either.

 

[4MYGUYS]

I made that statement because I think that these Universities should have encouraged the student to press charges and to offer their full support and assistance. instead, I'm somewhat inclined to think that these universities were delighted to see "no charges pressed" i.e. no bad publicity. They removed JM and voila! Problem solved....at least for THEIR UNIVERSITY. It didn't solve the problem for subsequent victims, nor for Hannah. I don't blame the university at all if the victim literally won't press charges, but in the case of JM....if there was not enough evidence to press charges, then why expel JM ? Hmmmmmm..............

Here's a school in Norfolk, VA that is being sued for promoting a rapist. The school does not think it is responsible for the students safety.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/virginia-wesleyan-lawsuit_n_6077780.html

 

[Skigirl]

Ok, so he wouldn't have gotten into CNU and that victim wouldn't have been a victim. But that wouldn't have stopped him from attacking others as we have seen. The post I quoted makes it sound like the schools set him free to rape again. There was no way the schools could stop him from doing that, they can't press charges and have him locked up, that's up to the victim.*

* And possibly LE. I think they can bring charges if the victim doesn't want to testify, but the victim has to report it to LE first.

I don't think the victim has to report a crime. The crime is against the State and if the State is aware of a crime, they have the ability to prosecute. Whether that is practical or not without a cooperating witness is another story. My understanding from having been a faculty member at a university, the university has the right to report crimes to the police, so any "privacy" issues that may have been cited are bogus. Anyway, this is all getting pretty off-topic, so I'm going to stop now.

 

[Skigirl]

Did you go to UVA or Va Tech? Those two colleges are heavily recruited by the CIA and FBI because the students and families that go there are known for having more conservative values than other colleges such as Harvard and UCLA.

Again, this is all pretty off-topic, but I can tell you that the FBI and CIA recruit at ALL campuses where students have a rep for being smart, including ones where I have taught and have been a student (and have been recruited). None of the schools I've been associated with are known for being conservative bastions. Indeed, they are very careful to word questions about drug use so that the recruit can say "no" honestly. My husband, who went to one of the service academies and knows many who are now quite senior and are involved in recruiting for both agencies, confirms this. Otherwise the pool of people who have both the right set of skills and who qualify (i.e., have not done recreational drugs) is much too small.

 

[Cymbaline]

Has anyone found any video's of Hanna?

I think she spoke with an American accent:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/27/hannah-graham-description-witty-_n_5891192.html

"In her hometown of Alexandria, Graham is known as whip smart, with broad interests and eclectic tastes in music. She moved from Britain to the U.S. when she was about 6 and was determined to lose her British accent, said Craig Maniglia, her softball coach at West Potomac High School and a family friend who lives in the Grahams' neighborhood."

Kids at that young an age learn accents and languages very quickly and easily.