Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Mercedes]

FWIW, we have tons of Mellow Mushrooms in North Carolina.

Bunch of them in Florida and Georgia

 

[SteveP]

Could anyone familiar with the area tell me how far the frat houses are from where Hannah lived? I read somewhere, and it may have been on another site, so treat it as strictly rumor as I don't have any link, that one of the parties she went to was a frat party. Would it likely have been one of the stops she made at an apartment as opposed to a frat house??

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree that the drug angle is a bit played out. I think one of the key things we have to go on is that HG did seem familiar with JM and was very at ease with his presence; enough so that witnesses did not sense she was under duress. Also notably, JM was not perceived as at all aggressive, but seemed rather supportive. I am thinking that they both may have a common background that has been under explored: they had a shared trait in being helpful to others and both volunteered in their leisure time. JM to assist coaching football at covenant school and HG most recently in rebuilding homes in Tusclaloosa, AL on a spring break trip working with Habitat for Humanity. We know that JM is religious and active in his church. We don't know if HG was religious in any way. I am just tossing out there that maybe they knew one another through some sort of volunteer experiences or church/religious connections?

*i hope this isn't off topic too much for this thread....but I couldn't help but notice this observation you made...

It just so happens that I've come across several cases in which it was mentioned that "all personal belongs left behind, ....bible." ..... It struck me as odd that in so many cases, they would bother mentioning that the "missing" had left behind their bible!

One case that struck me in particular was Jaisle Smith. she was a Jr in HS - and disappeared from Henrico, VA in April of 2002. (the spring before JM started Monticello, he would have been a Sophmore). She was last seen walking away from her car, she only took her car keys, her abandon car was found on the side of the road with all personal belongs inside, including her bible. She's never been found. When I read this case I considered the possibility that perhaps JM new her from some bible youth camp, or some social activity related to church. She was driving to Richmond to study at the U Rich library, it was a Saturday...could she have planned a date with JM, but "fibbed to mom and dad?....

Then I was thinking how would he even have pulled it off without a license...but then this occurred to me, perhaps a bus?.....and a date involving a romantic and solitary walk in the woods? ... It might explain why she only took her keys. (And back then she wouldn't have had a cell phone). I think this might be murder victim number one.

Interestingly enough another thing the Jaisle case had in common with many many of these other missing women...is the fact they had all left all personal items behind, some just vanished from there apartment, left everything, gone without a trace....just a few abandon cars.

How did he get all those women to trust him? Did he use there connection to religion to gain there trust?

Thanks for making that connection condoctor71!

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Could anyone familiar with the area tell me how far the frat houses are from where Hannah lived? I read somewhere, and it may have been on another site, so treat it as strictly rumor as I don't have any link, that one of the parties she went to was a frat party. Would it likely have been one of the stops she made at an apartment as opposed to a frat house??

I'm not familiar with the area, but from looking at the maps, she lived no more than a block from the parties she went to--she was on 15th, the parties were on 14th. Without trees, you could see her apartment building from both of the parties she went to on 14th.

 

[MJPeony]

Yes, my thoughts were that if she had met him, it would not be in the hospital, but around town perhaps. Although rumor, I heard someone say that he may have sometimes been a bouncer at frat parties, and given his apparent fondness for incapacitated young women, my guess is he found his way into more than a few frat parties.

What do you mean by a bouncer at frat parties?

 

[MJPeony]

Yes, my thoughts were that if she had met him, it would not be in the hospital, but around town perhaps. Although rumor, I heard someone say that he may have sometimes been a bouncer at frat parties, and given his apparent fondness for incapacitated young women, my guess is he found his way into more than a few frat parties.

People as old as he is currently (30's) would not generally be at UVa frat parties. Perhaps when he was just out of CNU... but otherwise, no, I would not think he found his way into more than a few frat parties. MOO.

 

[ThinkHard]

Speaking of what if's.... what if HG texted her friends saying she was lost and they had a taxi drivers number and asked him to go get her? Frighting possibility.Would explain why she got in his car

I understand how many are considering the cabi angle on JM's part...but he hasn't been a cab driver in years...which makes me doubt he's going around trying to play one in that sleezy looking car of his.

And as many have said, HG had traveled, she likely would have been very familiar with taking cabs at this point. I give her way more credit then falling for a such a sleezy line, from a man that approached her on foot!

I have heard some whopper lines from total strangers, but I can promise you if any guy had ever tried a line about " being a cabi and giving me a ride" when I was in college, red flags would be going up everywhere! No matter how drunk I was!

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Maybe friends knew she was heading out to meet a guy and assumed she was going to spend the night/weekend with him. Radars didn't go off until their texts/calls aren't being acknowledged??? It's not uncommon for college kids to hook up and spend the next day lounging around together.

Maybe...but they're waiting for her to show up at a party, she says she lost, then never shows up, and nobody misses her for 36 hours? Obviously, I don't know what kind of person she was as far as how much space she wanted from her friends, but I can't bring myself to a point of understanding that no one cared enough to notice she was gone all weekend.

 

[MJPeony]

Could anyone familiar with the area tell me how far the frat houses are from where Hannah lived? I read somewhere, and it may have been on another site, so treat it as strictly rumor as I don't have any link, that one of the parties she went to was a frat party. Would it likely have been one of the stops she made at an apartment as opposed to a frat house??

She was close. http://virginiaisc.com/about/map-of-chapter-houses/

 

[MJPeony]

oops, sorry- I just posted the sorority map, and you asked frat. I will go look for that link....

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Yes, my thoughts were that if she had met him, it would not be in the hospital, but around town perhaps. Although rumor, I heard someone say that he may have sometimes been a bouncer at frat parties, and given his apparent fondness for incapacitated young women, my guess is he found his way into more than a few frat parties.

I was thinking they knew each other from an establishment in the Corner area--the hospital is very close by. Starbucks had come to mind a while back, and then I saw the FB post from one of HG's friends that sounded like HG and this friend were sort of regulars there. (I believe that post was deleted the same day it was published.)

 

[MJPeony]

Ha..ok, never mind, that original link does have the fraternities.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I'm not familiar with the area, but from looking at the maps, she lived no more than a block from the parties she went to--she was on 15th, the parties were on 14th. Without trees, you could see her apartment building from both of the parties she went to on 14th.

301 15th St
https://www.google.com/maps/dir//30...wgSW5jbHVzaXZlLiBXYWxrIHRvIFVWQSBDYW1wdXMhKgA

Head to Sadler St and cross 14th to Camden Plaza Apartments

Cross back over 14th to The Pointe Apartments.


If she was actually lost, something serious happened to her at The Pointe Apartments, IMO.

 

[SteveP]

People as old as he is currently (30's) would not generally be at UVa frat parties. Perhaps when he was just out of CNU... but otherwise, no, I would not think he found his way into more than a few frat parties. MOO.

I was just thinking back to my college days (way too many years ago), when, especially during Rush weeks, frats would host parties with bands on the lawn that were about the equivalent of block parties....anyone could have and might have shown up. But I will go with your thoughts.

 

[MJPeony]

I was just thinking back to my college days (way too many years ago), when, especially during Rush weeks, frats would host parties with bands on the lawn that were about the equivalent of block parties....anyone could have and might have shown up. But I will go with your thoughts.

You're gracious- thanks Sounds fun- the block parties. They didn't do that at UVa when I was there. Too many years ago for my liking as well, but I tend to moan about my age regardless of what it is!

 

[Quill]

Frat parties at the college where my kids go are closed, mostly for liability reasons. They were open back in the day when I went there, but due to a guy falling off a balcony to his death and numerous issues with local high schoolers, they closed them years ago. If you aren't a member, you have to be on the list to get in. Members add you to the approved list. They provide security as well. It's a school with well over 20,000 students and they have 12 or so fraternities.

ETA: removed question that might cause confusion of certain facts.

 

[SteveP]

Because I could not find where I read it, and don't even know if it is true, I deleted my post about JLM possibly having been hired as a bouncer at frat parties. I do not want to derail the thread or spread misinformation. Nothing to see here, move along....

 

[SteveP]

So the frat parties at UVA are open? Ok, this changes my perspective on this issue. Frat parties at the college where my kids go are closed, mostly for liability reasons. They were open back in the day when I went there, but due to a guy falling off a balcony to his death and numerous issues with local high schoolers, they closed them years ago. If you aren't a member, you have to be on the list to get in. Members add you to the approved list. They provide security as well. It's a school with well over 20,000 students and they have 12 or so fraternities.

No, no one has said that they were open...pretty much the opposite I think. I was thinking perhaps they may have been, but was corrected. However, if closed, then they may indeed hire a doorman or bouncer, yes?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

You know, with all the discussions about drugs, a thought came to me that maybe that's why HG was flying solo that night--possibly she was trying to stay AWAY from them.

 

[ThinkHard]

What could the schools do? If the victims don't press charges I don't think there is anything more the school can do besides expel him. And if the victim presses charges she has to get a conviction for him to be guilty of rape. I'm not really sure why we are holding the schools responsible when they did all they could under the law.

Maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe we don't take rape as seriously as we NEED to be.

We see that FAR to often its a handful of offender, creating the majority of the crimes. And rather then coming down hard and stopping them in there tracks, we write it off as "drunken mistakes", rather seeing it for the aggressive invasion that it is.

Anyone, and I MEAN anyone capable of taking advantage of a girl and invading her insides without her consent, has something VERY wrong with them. Normal, healthy thinking does not gain pleasure from that kind of activity. EVER!

I'm not saying every male that commits rape or is accused of sexual assault is on the path to being the next serial killer. But at the very least they need help!

I have a hard time wrapping my brain around how in this country, if someone is raped and brutalized but is lucky enough to live, the burden falls on the victim to seek justice....yet had she had the misfortune of not surviving, the responsibility would be on the state. Its like say "congrats you survived...now you get to do the hard part"!!!