Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Ghostwheel]

I'd like to now if Hannah habitually slouched that badly. In the video where WG immediately follows her (yep, that's pretty creepy), she is slouching so badly it looks uncomfortable. My daughter does that when she is incoherently mentally tired, like she wants to curl up into a ball.

 

[ninij9]

I wholeheartedly agree! My fear is that LE could be focusing on the wrong guy and that Hannah is still out there suffering. WG bothers me to no end. I even called it in to the tip line. IMO the operator sounded a little nervous after I said what I had to say... maybe that's a good thing. Maybe they're following WG's trail right now and JM is a major distraction. I can only hope. That WG is extremely disturbing. He could have been following the whole time. Remember earlier in a post I said that perhaps Hannah was catfished because Hannah checks her phone right as WG puts his phone away and thats right when HG passes WG who would be be somewhat hidden to HG at that time.

Yes. Yes. Yes! I'm just not going to sit back yet and say whew, JM is the guy.

 

[ninij9]

I'd like to now if Hannah habitually slouched that badly. In the video where WG immediately follows her (yep, that's pretty creepy), she is slouching so badly it looks uncomfortable. My daughter does that when she is incoherently mentally tired, like she wants to curl up into a ball.

I had noticed that right away, but when I found out her height I recalled that a friend of my daughters is tall and tends to slouch as well. Could be caused by fatigue too maybe. She is walking swiftly with that strange gait.

 

[sixecho]

I'd like to now if Hannah habitually slouched that badly. In the video where WG immediately follows her (yep, that's pretty creepy), she is slouching so badly it looks uncomfortable. My daughter does that when she is incoherently mentally tired, like she wants to curl up into a ball.

I actually think she was reaching for her phone or ID. I'm thinking it was her phone. If you look closely and go frame by frame you can definitely see her right hand motion backwards to her back pocket area. She was wearing tight clothing and had no purse. I imagine that's where she kept her personals. I only see her do that two other times on the captured video tapes and that is when she's at McGrady's. She does it once before passing the camera at McGrady's where I assume she pulls out her ID and goes to the first door at the bar to tries to get in. She them comes back into focus of the camera and again, her hand is in her back pocket area. Either she is putting her phone/id back in her pocket or she's taking it out again to try again at McGrady's door number two. She fails again and starts the trek to the Downtown mall.

 

[monkey222]

Sixecho, Very good point re: no purse for the night. Smart girl. Which leads me to observe her other very smart choice for a Fri night, that is, sensible shoes, sneakers it appears to me, in her dorm/apt video. This tells me that she had prepared for an evening of walking.

Alot of young girls wear really unreasonable styles of shoe not fit for good balance after a night of partying.
But alas, they sure have the sexy look with heels, etc. Noted is the boot girl.at Tempo who removed them cuz feet sore
HG had light colored sneakers it appears, which JMO, most girls wouldnt choose for party night. This tells me that she was set for distance party hopping via foot.

 

[sixecho]

Monkey222, you are making really great points/observations as well. Shoe choice and attire is extremely important here. I'll have to think about this some more as this may be a very important part of HG's disappearance.

 

[monkey222]

I am old and try to be sensible but gee...I don't think I would ever pair a gold crop top with light sneakers for a night on the town. I see girls in clubs with their tall heels, also bringing possibly ballet type fold up slippery shoes or flip flops for walking back to car. But, as Sixecho observed, she appears to have no purse for "cuter shoes".. I wonder if this was status quo for her to not have purse? But maybe because she is atheletic, the party walking could be like a normal work-out habit.

 

[Fiddlehead]

Remember earlier in a post I said that perhaps Hannah was catfished because Hannah checks her phone right as WG puts his phone away and thats right when HG passes WG who would be be somewhat hidden to HG at that time.

LE has her phone records, all incoming and outgoing texts. Had WG been 'catfishing' her they'd know it. And they don't rule out a POI based on that POI's own testimony ("I was just trying to help her") - so I'm confident that if there's any reason at all he should be a POI still, then he is a POI still.

 

[Fiddlehead]

Question - soon after the search for Hannah began, LE were looking for an individual, a POI, who does not seem to have come up in subsequent communications from them. This individual is obviously not the white guy in the video, nor is it JLM. Any idea what happened to this?

- - - - -
Police Release Description of Person of Interest in Hannah Graham Case
Posted: Sep 17, 2014 9:11 PM CST Updated: Sep 18, 2014 3:33 PM CST
By WRIC Newsroom

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (WRIC) - UPDATE: The Charlottesville Police Department has released a description of a man a witness has identified as having contact with Hannah Elizabeth Graham the night she disappeared.

This person is described as a black male, 5'10"-5'11", 250-285 pounds, close shaved head, goatee, with a slight 'beer belly'. He is described as being in his late 20's-early 30's and wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt.

He was seen with Hannah in the area of East Main Street on the Downtown Mall in the city of Charlottesville around 1-1:15 a.m. on September 13 (Friday night/Saturday morning)
- - - - - - - http://www.wset.com/story/26559782/reward-police-hannah-graham-surveillance-video-released - - - - -

 

[sixecho]

LE has her phone records, all incoming and outgoing texts. Had WG been 'catfishing' her they'd know it. And they don't rule out a POI based on that POI's own testimony ("I was just trying to help her") - so I'm confident that if there's any reason at all he should be a POI still, then he is a POI still.

Very true. But they don't have her phone. Not sure if that changes anything but ya never know. Also, she posted a picture on twitter (Sep.10, I think) which shows that she used the Yik Yak app. It's an anonymous geo location based messaging app. Perhaps she communicated through that or a similar type anonymous messaging app. Yik Yak is very popular but maybe she liked talking with anonymous people and formed a relationship with someone.

Also, if LE have HG's phone data then I will assume that they do know her itinerary for the night. I'd assume they'd know why she broke off from the group to leave by herself (not a smart action for a smart girl like HG). I'd assume they'd know where she was headed. I'd assume they'd have proof that she was lost because lost people with iPhones use the maps app to get directions (as well as text friends/reply to text from friends).I feel they should know a lot of things by now but for some reason I don't get that feeling from LE.

 

[Fiddlehead]

Very true. But they don't have her phone. Not sure if that changes anything but ya never know. Also, she posted a picture on twitter (Sep.10, I think) which shows that she used the Yik Yak app. It's an anonymous geo location based messaging app. Perhaps she communicated through that or a similar type anonymous messaging app. Yik Yak is very popular but maybe she liked talking with anonymous people and formed a relationship with someone.

Also, if LE have HG's phone data then I will assume that they do know her itinerary for the night. I'd assume they'd know why she broke off from the group to leave by herself (not a smart action for a smart girl like HG). I'd assume they'd know where she was headed. I'd assume they'd have proof that she was lost because lost people with iPhones use the maps app to get directions (as well as text friends/reply to text from friends).I feel they should know a lot of things by now but for some reason I don't get that feeling from LE.

Obviously they have her texts. I don't know how having the rest of her phone data would yield an itinerary for a weekend night out partying for a college student, though. Most people don't have detailed itineraries for party hopping on their phones.

If you noticed on a twitter pic that she was using Yik Yak and you have personal knowledge that this is geo-location anonymous messaging app, perhaps you should call that tip into LE. If you thought it worth posting here, it must be significant enough to be a tip.

Since the FBI is on this case and on it hard, and they have insanely smart cyber sleuths, I'm guessing they've already pursued that. But you never know.

 

[thinksalot]

I totally agree. No way she was lost with an iPhone. Chances are her friends all have smart phones as well. She didn't really even seem lost in the videos and did not appear to have her phone in hand as a lost college kid would have. My theory is that that text was suppose to be sent earlier when she left her place, Camden apts, to go to the second party which is kind of off 14th and Wertland st. Also, I just realized, maybe the time stamps are a little off because HG's cellphone is on military/'international' time. I noticed this on her twitter. I doubt it but it could be a possibility. Most likely, the text didn't send the first time. I have an iPhone. This can happen from time to time.

I tried to send a photo LAST SUNDAY and it wouldn't go through. Finally, it went through yesterday, which was six days later .... I have no idea why that happened, but it says to me that timestamps aren't always right.

 

[thinksalot]

Question - soon after the search for Hannah began, LE were looking for an individual, a POI, who does not seem to have come up in subsequent communications from them. This individual is obviously not the white guy in the video, nor is it JLM. Any idea what happened to this?

- - - - -
Police Release Description of Person of Interest in Hannah Graham Case
Posted: Sep 17, 2014 9:11 PM CST Updated: Sep 18, 2014 3:33 PM CST
By WRIC Newsroom

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (WRIC) - UPDATE: The Charlottesville Police Department has released a description of a man a witness has identified as having contact with Hannah Elizabeth Graham the night she disappeared.

This person is described as a black male, 5'10"-5'11", 250-285 pounds, close shaved head, goatee, with a slight 'beer belly'. He is described as being in his late 20's-early 30's and wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt.

He was seen with Hannah in the area of East Main Street on the Downtown Mall in the city of Charlottesville around 1-1:15 a.m. on September 13 (Friday night/Saturday morning)
- - - - - - - http://www.wset.com/story/26559782/reward-police-hannah-graham-surveillance-video-released - - - - -

We discussed this several days ago, and many of us thought that the police might have intentionally released wrong info so the real POI wouldn't run away.

 

[Steleheart]

LE has her phone records, all incoming and outgoing texts. Had WG been 'catfishing' her they'd know it. And they don't rule out a POI based on that POI's own testimony ("I was just trying to help her") - so I'm confident that if there's any reason at all he should be a POI still, then he is a POI still.

BBM;

~ I truly doubt that they do. According to what I can dig up, text message content is not retained by most providers. Verizon retains content 3-5 days only, and out of 6 major providers only Virgin Mobile (Sprint) retains content for the time period that LE would have requested it - "with a warrant".

Text message detail, that is, to/from, time, location, duration, etc. is retained far longer by all carriers but none of the detail would give LE enough evidence for a charge IMO

“Retention Periods of Major Cellular Providers,”:

https://www.aclu.org/cell-phone-loc...ponse-cell-phone-company-data-retention-chart

 

[jamicat]

Question - soon after the search for Hannah began, LE were looking for an individual, a POI, who does not seem to have come up in subsequent communications from them. This individual is obviously not the white guy in the video, nor is it JLM. Any idea what happened to this?

- - - - -
Police Release Description of Person of Interest in Hannah Graham Case
Posted: Sep 17, 2014 9:11 PM CST Updated: Sep 18, 2014 3:33 PM CST
By WRIC Newsroom

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (WRIC) - UPDATE: The Charlottesville Police Department has released a description of a man a witness has identified as having contact with Hannah Elizabeth Graham the night she disappeared.

This person is described as a black male, 5'10"-5'11", 250-285 pounds, close shaved head, goatee, with a slight 'beer belly'. He is described as being in his late 20's-early 30's and wearing black jeans and a white t-shirt.

He was seen with Hannah in the area of East Main Street on the Downtown Mall in the city of Charlottesville around 1-1:15 a.m. on September 13 (Friday night/Saturday morning)
- - - - - - - http://www.wset.com/story/26559782/reward-police-hannah-graham-surveillance-video-released - - - - -

Wasn't that the erroneous descrip that WG gave? From what I understand, he came in and gave his story of what he remembered without the benefit of the video. When LE figured out who he was via video, the person he described turned out to be JM which did not match the scrip. It's not like WG saw a big earthshattering event where he would remember the people there, though, yes, his description and JM are WAY off. But then I can't describe some folks that I saw that barely caught my attention. I saw the cutest little girl on the bus who was with her dad and grandmother, watched her and can describe her accurately. Her grandmom and dad that i noticed on the periphery, I doubt if I coudl ID. Can't tell you hair length, nothing, not even what they were wearing, and I was sitting across from them for a good 15 minutes and even had a few words with them, as I noted how cute their little one was. And I rate pretty high on recall of detail and description when tested even with my guard down.

WG would not be likely have been focused on the guy who approached Hannah. That she is as tall as she is, nearly 6 ft tall would make it seem like JM is not as big as he is. I learned that when I could not find my 6'1+ son when he was in plain view because he was standing next to a guy who was 6'7". It's rare that anyone is that much taller than he is , so I was looking for him among the taller guys. The bald part was a total miss, on the part of WG, but I can't tell you if the little girl's father was bald or had short hair or anything about his hair. Just wasn't looking at it--it went right by me. WG would have been focused on Hannah, and lost interest the instant JM swoopen on her with a hug as though he knew her. No adverse reaction from her andt hey walk off, and that's it. That it was on camera is a good example on how faulty eye witness testimony can be. Apparently his description of events fits what happened on film except for the scrip of the guy.

 

[jamicat]

BBM;

~ I truly doubt that they do. According to what I can dig up, text message content is not retained by most providers. Verizon retains content 3-5 days only, and out of 6 major providers only Virgin Mobile (Sprint) retains content for the time period that LE would have requested it - "with a warrant".

Text message detail, that is, to/from, time, location, duration, etc. is retained far longer by all carriers but none of the detail would give LE enough evidence for a charge IMO

“Retention Periods of Major Cellular Providers,”:

https://www.aclu.org/cell-phone-loc...ponse-cell-phone-company-data-retention-chart

Most of the time, parents pay for student cell phone and it's in their names. That's the case for me. So I can request my kids' records--they aren't even listed with the phone company. We have a family plan and it's just a lot less expensive that way. So Hannah's parents likely would have given immediate consent and request within 3 days to get those phone records. That would or should have been the first thing to come to mine as she had an iPhone with GPS built into it. Again, I ask if the phone ran out of battery charge, would it no longer give any info, like locale? My kids are always running out of battery power. They live with that phone on and it goes through a charge very quickly unlike for me-I can keep mine for a very long time.

 

[Steleheart]

Most of the time, parents pay for student cell phone and it's in their names. That's the case for me. So I can request my kids' records--they aren't even listed with the phone company. We have a family plan and it's just a lot less expensive that way. So Hannah's parents likely would have given immediate consent and request within 3 days to get those phone records. That would or should have been the first thing to come to mine as she had an iPhone with GPS built into it. Again, I ask if the phone ran out of battery charge, would it no longer give any info, like locale? My kids are always running out of battery power. They live with that phone on and it goes through a charge very quickly unlike for me-I can keep mine for a very long time.

You can even request your OWN records but if they don't retain CONTENT they won't be able to help you.
:cow:

 

[jamicat]

You can even request your OWN records but if they don't retain CONTENT they won't be able to help you.
:cow:

No content, but how about some tracking. I have no idea how that works, and if it works at all if battery loses charge. Also phone could have been turned off to save on battery if it's running low. My kids have to do that a lot when they need phone use and they've run the battery down using it for other things.

 

[sixecho]

Obviously they have her texts. I don't know how having the rest of her phone data would yield an itinerary for a weekend night out partying for a college student, though. Most people don't have detailed itineraries for party hopping on their phones.

If you noticed on a twitter pic that she was using Yik Yak and you have personal knowledge that this is geo-location anonymous messaging app, perhaps you should call that tip into LE. If you thought it worth posting here, it must be significant enough to be a tip.

Since the FBI is on this case and on it hard, and they have insanely smart cyber sleuths, I'm guessing they've already pursued that. But you never know.

Thanks. I let them know this morning. I guess I meant more of an implied intinerary derived from her texts with her girlfriends. From my experience, girls going out in college is a big thing and they usually text back in forth to decide where to go and to say which guy invited them to what party. Girls have to figure out where to pre game before going out and which party they will go to. I'm sure that's all in HG's texts.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Can we go back to the LE statements that HG had texted friends that she was lost/disoriented, and asked if someone would come find her. I understand that her friends were probably partying and in a highly inebriated state, which would/could explain why no one went out to get her. But, what about the next day when they sobered up, and the next day? Don't you think someone would have figured out before Sunday afternoon that she had never gotten home? It sounded like at least one person knew she was in some kind of trouble, but never got back to her. I wonder why?