Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[SteveP]

Ok, so I'm behind here. What evidence has been uncovered to show that she knew JM? Has someone said that she knew him? Did the others in her crowd know him and hang with him?

None, no, and not that we are aware of. Several posters have speculated that they may have known each other and were planning to meet that night around the DM or maybe McGrady's, but it is purely speculation. JMO

 

[hambirg]

They said he was a regular there, and usually came in alone. No mention, though, of any known behaviors while there alone....

That stop at the Lazy Parrot intrigues me too. He only stayed for one drink. It may be as simple as they have good, cheap drinks. But then why didn't he stay? It has occured to me that maybe he went there to pick up and buy something. . .maybe just weed, but what about something more nefarious like something he could put in Hannah's drink?

What if HG was planning to meet JM, and she said "let's meet at McGradys" since , from the post above by Evie shared a statement that she and her ski team had been there several times. Perhaps, because JM was having WAY too much fun on the DM (looking at feet, bumming cigarettes, putting men in wresting holds etc.) that he was not able to get to McGradys at the appointed time, or maybe he went there once and HG was not there, so he left. Stay with me..... Ok, so then he texts her to meet him at the DM at Tempo. Perhaps he then got the idea to abduct her on her walk from McGrady's to Tempo but for some reason, he was unable to find her (maybe the route she has taken,or maybe she walked a lot faster than he had anticipated, thus, her being "ahead" of him on the DM). So he returns to the DM and sees her pass on the opposite side of the DM. He crosses over, makes contact with her and they head on to Tempo. Is this completely crazy? If she did go to McGrady's twice, she could have been looking for him AND it explains why McGradys may be on gag order....perhaps JM was there to meet HG and perhaps he told someone who worked there that he was waiting for someong named Hannah...who knows. Anyone think that this is a viable scenario?

BBM1- I find it more likely that Hannah was going to McGrady's to find her ski team friends. She reportedly hung out with them there before, and I assume knew they go there when they want to get away from the Corner.

BBM2-I think JM's behavior on the mall points to him not intentionally meeting up with Hannah. If it was intended for them to meet, why didn't he cross directly to Hannah once he spotted her? Instead JM crosses and nonchalantly tries to drop into the back of the group between him and Hannah. To me, that behavior implies stalking, kwim?

Ok, so I'm behind here. What evidence has been uncovered to show that she knew JM? Has someone said that she knew him? Did the others in her crowd know him and hang with him?

I agree. SKs prey on strangers. While it is possible that this could have been a first time meet-up between JM and Hannah, who met online, I'm going to have to see some kind of evidence of that. I just don't find it likely.

MOO

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Ok, so I'm behind here. What evidence has been uncovered to show that she knew JM? Has someone said that she knew him? Did the others in her crowd know him and hang with him?

No evidence. With the amount of information being withheld, we're left to theories. And, one of the questions surrounds HG's change in demeanor upon meeting JM at the DTM. The witness said they seemed to know each other...not that that in itself is a big clue, but the various reports of her seeming to be on some sort of mission kind of opens up a lot of possibilities.

 

[MJPeony]

Yes, the reaction she apparently had when she did end up encountering JM is very interesting IMO. It could speak to her having had a purpose to being down there and she was in fact expecting to encounter him in some way, or it could be that she was just happy to have someone presumably offering her a way home. We can only speculate. I personally think there was some level of expecting him- not that she'd have met him before- but perhaps the theory that she or a friend had called for a ride home. It does seem weird he is on opposite side of mall and then crosses over behind HG (as opposed to walking up to her), but I think that could still be reasonable if he was looking for someone who looked like her and he was hanging back to confirm. But of course, IDK. There are so many holes!

 

[ILOKAL]

I truly think it could be something very close to that. When HG was on her way to the DTM, JM was at Rapture with friends that ended up ditching him. Maybe the plans were that HG would meet him at Rapture. In the meantime, he made an unexpected trip to Tempo to follow the friend. Remember that he had left Tempo for a bit, and then showed back up with her? Possibly the reason he spotted her right away on that video was because he was looking for her. She has a little bit of time unaccounted for between when she got to the Mall and when she showed up on the first video. I have a feeling she went to Rapture, he wasn't there, and she became somewhat distraught about getting all the way to the Mall only to find her plans didn't come to fruition at Rapture. He found her, and she was relieved (according to what's been said about her interaction with him.)

The McGrady's scenario you laid out makes a lot of sense. It looks a lot like she was doing something with her phone when she first got there and stopped at the corner of the patio. Then she walked down the street, rather than head straight for the door. Maybe she was hanging around there for a while waiting for him...or someone else.

I'm not sure if we "know" that Hannah had her phone on the McGrady's video. I think, perhaps, Hannah did go to McGrady's twice that night. The first time she might have asked to use the bathroom and was allowed to come in for that. She might have left something behind and noticed it missing so she turned around and went back to McGrady's. She wasn't sure if she dropped this something outside or left it in the ladies room. She might have been looking for whatever she left behind when she goes off screen for two minutes which might have been why those three guys and the bouncer were staring at her. She might have found it and stopped to let the bouncer know. Just some thoughts!

 

[themom]

What time is Zapped going to Tempo tonight?!?! Sadly, his trip to Tempo is also my night. LOL

 

[ILOKAL]

What time is Zapped going to Tempo tonight?!?! Sadly, his trip to Tempo is also my night. LOL

He just posted an update on the Tempo thread.

 

[themom]

He just posted an update on the Tempo thread.

I saw it! Thanks! I hope his car gets fixed easily...:/

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

This is so good, I brought it over from the Tempo Restaurant thread:

Quote Originally Posted by hambirg View Post
Well, that's a good question. I personally think they meant at Tempo, but the way in which it was released via the media made it appear as if they meant McGrady.

I went back over the first few days of the search. I have a motto, after following so many cases. We can't just go by what we are told, but we have to carefully watch LE behavior and read between the lines. Sooooo . . .

Sunday Sept 14th:
-Hannah is reported missing at 4:34pm
-LE is searching with bloodhounds around UVA Corner, and nothing of significance is found

Monday Sept. 15th
-Hannah's phone records and computer are being searched
-LE is searching the 14th and Wertland area
-Hannah is reportedly last seen at 12:15 at a party
-the hallway pics of Hannah are released

Tuesday Sept 16th
-LE puts search on hold because of new leads via tips
-LE reports they have video
-Search is moved to Grady and eastward
-LE gets tip of Hannah being at the DM
-LE is also searching near UVA hospital (Wha?!!!! Yep, that's right.)
-The report of the Fairfax/MH suspect sighting is released along with the sketch. (To me, this is clearly a sign that LE had already identified JM. There was no sighting. They just wanted to get the sketch out there because they already knew who and what they were dealing with.)

Wednesday Sept 17th
-At 7 am it's reported that there is a witness and video of Hannah with an unidentified woman on the DM.
-By 9:30am it is reported that search and rescue are all over the DM area.
-It is reported that the last text message from Hannah came from the wrong area.
-Reports of SAR with bloodhounds on Water Street near the parking garage.
-Anchorage farm is searched (Did you hear THAT? They are not trying to ID JM, they are already searching Anchorage Farm!)
-Parker Slaybough reports "breaking news" that LE has video of Hannah walking into a pub at 1 am.
-Presser. . .parents fear "foul play" and LE releases McGrady video.

later on the 17th

-LE has reportedly located WG. Says Hannah was walking with black man
-LE releases Sal's video
-LE releases Tuel's video
-LE says there is no woman and it is Hannah's reflection in the Tuel's video (which WS posters were madly posting at the time that that clearly wasn't true. Sleuthers were all over the man with dreads. )

Thursday Sept 18th

-Reported that police will release more video
-Reported that police won't release more video
-Reported that police are pulling more video, but we will have to wait. . .
-And wait
-several reports that the POI is NOT on any of the videos
-reports that the man with dreads is not a POI and has been cleared
-LE says they want to talk to second male, but give no description
-At 4 pm LE gives description of POI black male, who is not on any videos. . .shaved head. . .etc
-$50,000 reward is announced
-reports that a sketch of POI is coming soon
-Vigil held for Hannah


Friday Sept 19th

-reportedly sometime after midnight a search warrant is executed on Jesse Leroy Matthew Jr's car.
-search warrant for apartment and phone executed shortly after search of car.

Anywhoo. . .that's where I kind of stopped. I think in hindsight it's quite clear how far along LE was in their investigation, what their media strategy was and the motivation behind what they released when.

Sooo. . .MOO. . .LE didn't need the public's help IDing JM. They were already way beyond that when the released the DM videos and all the silly "POI is NOT on any videos. . .It's a woman. No wait, it's Hannah's reflection" nonsense. So why release those videos at all? There were much better pictures of Hannah, so it didn't have anything to do with recognizing her. I think the only explanation was because JM was already under surveillance and they wanted to stress him. They wanted to lead JM to believe that they weren't on to him YET, but they were getting there. LE was hoping if they rattled him, he would lead them to Hannah.

By Tuesday the 16th they put the Fairfax sketch back into circulation and they went sniffing around his place of employment.

On Wednesday the 17th LE searched Anchorage Farm and released the videos that clearly show JM close up, circling around to drop in behind Hannah, and then walking right along side of her.

On Thursday the 18th, LE put the public in a holding pattern. . .and waited and watched for JM to make a move.

MOO!!!!!

Re: Searching the UVA Hospital on Tuesday, which was before the DTM videos........hmmm. Was there something in those texts that ID'ed him from the get-go?

Also, Hambirg...do you have any links about the DTM coming in focus on Tuesday? Everything I've seen was Wednesday. Thanks.

 

[hambirg]

This is so good, I brought it over from the Tempo Restaurant thread:



Re: Searching the UVA Hospital on Tuesday, which was before the DTM videos........hmmm. Was there something in those texts that ID'ed him from the get-go?

Also, Hambirg...do you have any links about the DTM coming in focus on Tuesday? Everything I've seen was Wednesday. Thanks.

I don't have any MSM links, but it was widely reported here on Tuesday that posters on the HFHG facebook page were posting that they saw Hannah on the DT mall and had called that into the tip line. It was no secret. . .that was happening early on Tuesday.

ETA- I don't think there were texts. On Monday LE was already going through Hannah's phone and computer. . .they were searching around 14th and Wertland. So Hannah's phone didn't reveal anything other than she was possibly lost and around 14th and Wertland. There was also no reason, at that time, to believe that Hannah didn't send that text. LE was led to McGrady's and later to the DM by tips that were called in.

 

[MJPeony]

I don't have any MSM links, but it was widely reported here on Tuesday that posters on the HFHG facebook page were posting that they saw Hannah on the DT mall and had called that into the tip line. It was no secret. . .that was happening early on Tuesday.

Random, but I just happened to be browsing the very first HG thread here a minute ago, before I checked this one and saw Hambirg's post. Here is a link to the comment about a witness calling in about seeing HG on the DM- 9/16 was that Tuesday. post #75 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Graham-18-Charlottesville-13-Sept-2014/page3

Not MSM, but it was so coincidental I'd just read it, that I had to post the link!

 

[hambirg]

Random, but I just happened to be browsing the very first HG thread here a minute ago, before I checked this one and saw Hambirg's post. Here is a link to the comment about a witness calling in about seeing HG on the DM- 9/16 was that Tuesday. post #75 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Graham-18-Charlottesville-13-Sept-2014/page3

Not MSM, but it was so coincidental I'd just read it, that I had to post the link!

Thanks! Going back and reading those beginning threads in hindsight is really eye opening. I really encourage everyone to do it.

 

[jbowman55]

I don't have any MSM links, but it was widely reported here on Tuesday that posters on the HFHG facebook page were posting that they saw Hannah on the DT mall and had called that into the tip line. It was no secret. . .that was happening early on Tuesday.

ETA- I don't think there were texts. On Monday LE was already going through Hannah's phone and computer. . .they were searching around 14th and Wertland. So Hannah's phone didn't reveal anything other than she was possibly lost and around 14th and Wertland. There was also no reason, at that time, to believe that Hannah didn't send that text. LE was led to McGrady's and later to the DM by tips that were called in.

I think I must be missing something? How could LE be going through Hannah's phone on Monday? I understand they would have gotten her computer from her apartment, but her phone? Reportedly it takes a while to get phone records from the service provider, so they wouldn't have had those yet, and they apparently didn't have the phone itself, since it was one of the things they asked the public to be on the lookout for.

The friends would have led LE to 14th and Wertland because of the text they'd received at either 1:06 or 1:20, depending on which reported time is correct. Right?

ETA: Btw, that timeline that is included in post #1230 is really eye-opening. Great work! Imo the searching around UVA Medical Center at such an early point in the process points right to JM. LE put out all that bogus information about the POI to keep JM from running before they'd had a chance to get search warrants.

ETA2: I think I've answered my own question. I think the records that were so slow coming from the cell service provider were the "pings" from JM's phone. But still I wonder if Hannah's phone records from the service provider would have contained the content of every text she sent, and it would have been something the friends would have talked about right away with LE, the content of the last text they received from her. If nothing else, one of the first questions LE would ask would be, "When did you hear from her last?" Sorry, I'm rambling.

So I guess my question now is, when LE was looking at Hannah's phone records, would the content of every one of her texts be in those records?

 

[Conductor71]

I don't have any MSM links, but it was widely reported here on Tuesday that posters on the HFHG facebook page were posting that they saw Hannah on the DT mall and had called that into the tip line. It was no secret. . .that was happening early on Tuesday.

ETA- I don't think there were texts. On Monday LE was already going through Hannah's phone and computer. . .they were searching around 14th and Wertland. So Hannah's phone didn't reveal anything other than she was possibly lost and around 14th and Wertland. There was also no reason, at that time, to believe that Hannah didn't send that text. LE was led to McGrady's and later to the DM by tips that were called in.

BBM

Hmmm, there is record of her texting repeatedly to friends and more is mentioned than 14th and Wertland according to the Washington Post on September 19th.

Police detective James Mooney said that in her text messages to friends, Graham indicated that she was lost and disoriented, at one point saying she was on Main Street when she actually was on Preston Avenue.

Graham also indicated that she believed she was walking back toward her home when she was actually headed the opposite way, authorities said. She also texted friends asking for someone to come find her after she realized she was lost. She last texted friends at 1:06 a.m., about the time that the man in dreadlocks encountered her.

source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

LE published her route to McGrady's and onto the mall at one point saying she had taken 10th street. I have previously posted a MSM source with this info. Just because witnesses place her at the pub and the DM does not mean that there were no text records backing this IMO. Or maybe I am missing something that negates the above report?

 

[Ollie]

Just my opinion but her friends phones would have received her texts and I'm sure they let LE look at them,to confirm what was said back and forth.

 

[Conductor71]

I think I must be missing something? How could LE be going through Hannah's phone on Monday? I understand they would have gotten her computer from her apartment, but her phone? Reportedly it takes a while to get phone records from the service provider, so they wouldn't have had those yet, and they apparently didn't have the phone itself, since it was one of the things they asked the public to be on the lookout for.

The friends would have led LE to 14th and Wertland because of the text they'd received at either 1:06 or 1:20, depending on which reported time is correct. Right?

I don' think that would have been a game changer in the search as that is the general area HG started her evening.

ETA: Btw, that timeline that is included in post #1230 is really eye-opening. Great work! Imo the searching around UVA Medical Center at such an early point in the process points right to JM. LE put out all that bogus information about the POI to keep JM from running before they'd had a chance to get search warrants.

This may be the case, but I think it most likely reflects that HG had dinner with friends that night at the Fig Bistro which is on Main St. at 14th directly across from UVA. Even if JM had not been on LE's radar, they would have thoroughly searched the area.

source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

So I guess my question now is, when LE was looking at Hannah's phone records, would the content of every one of her texts be in those records?

My guess is early on they would not have had a full record gleaned from her phone; however, they could have traced locations and had text records by pouring over her friends' chat history directly from their phones.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Random, but I just happened to be browsing the very first HG thread here a minute ago, before I checked this one and saw Hambirg's post. Here is a link to the comment about a witness calling in about seeing HG on the DM- 9/16 was that Tuesday. post #75 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Graham-18-Charlottesville-13-Sept-2014/page3

Not MSM, but it was so coincidental I'd just read it, that I had to post the link!

Thank you!

 

[jbowman55]

Still, the 1:06 text thing does not make sense.

If the text said (paraphrasing) "lost at 14th and Wertland" it doesn't make sense because we know that Hannah was on the DTM at 1:06. She lived just a couple of blocks from 14th and Wertland; she'd know the DTM isn't that location.

If the text was the product of an error that was auto-corrected and it said "almost at 14th and Wertland" it doesn't make sense either.

I don't believe the last text was sent at 1:06 unless Hannah was still in control of her own phone at that point and she was deliberately trying to mislead her friends. Moo. I mean, do we think she'd already lost her phone at that point? I thought that someone here at WS had seen on the DTM video where it looked like she was putting her phone in her back pants pocket. I can't see the video that well to go and check it myself. Does anyone else remember that? Why would she try to mislead her friends? Who would be judgemental about where she was?

ETA: I do apologize for beating this to death, but it seems important to me for some reason, I guess just because it doesn't make sense for there to be this kind of discrepancy. LE should know for sure what time the last text was sent, should really have known from the get-go once they started talking to her friends on Sunday afternoon.

 

[Conductor71]

Random, but I just happened to be browsing the very first HG thread here a minute ago, before I checked this one and saw Hambirg's post. Here is a link to the comment about a witness calling in about seeing HG on the DM- 9/16 was that Tuesday. post #75 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Graham-18-Charlottesville-13-Sept-2014/page3

Not MSM, but it was so coincidental I'd just read it, that I had to post the link!

This seems a reference to what Evie Ivy Over shared before? The woman who saw HG enter the mall while she was at Fellini's? She saw HG enter the mall from Market St at 2nd, if I recall correctly.


I would think that LE used HG's text messages and witness accounts to trace her route and place her at given times. I would think they would support or back the other, and witness accounts would surely fill in gaps.

 

[Conductor71]

Still, the 1:06 text thing does not make sense.

If the text said (paraphrasing) "lost at 14th and Wertland" it doesn't make sense because we know that Hannah was on the DTM at 1:06. She lived just a couple of blocks from 14th and Wertland; she'd know the DTM isn't that location.

If the text was the product of an error that was auto-corrected and it said "almost at 14th and Wertland" it doesn't make sense either.

I don't believe the last text was sent at 1:06 unless Hannah was still in control of her own phone at that point and she was deliberately trying to mislead her friends. Moo. I mean, do we think she'd already lost her phone at that point? I thought that someone here at WS had seen on the DTM video where it looked like she was putting her phone in her back pants pocket. I can't see the video that well to go and check it myself. Does anyone else remember that? Why would she try to mislead her friends? Who would be judgemental about where she was?

ETA: I do apologize for beating this to death, but it seems important to me for some reason, I guess just because it doesn't make sense for there to be this kind of discrepancy. LE should know for sure what time the last text was sent, should really have known from the get-go once they started talking to her friends on Sunday afternoon.

She was utterly lost. Her friends reported that she did not know the location well at all and had only lived there a week or so. She thought she was heading West toward her friends when she was actually on a clear path for the mall. I don't believe she necessarily knew that in walking but once she arrived there it would have been obvious.

The curious thing to me is that she asked her friends to rescue her (doubtful then IMO she would have sent friends a message to mislead them), so why did that never happen? I wonder if the mall was determined to be a meeting or rescue point? Makes sense as it would be considered a well lit, populated "safe" place to wait. Or not as it now would seem...