Hannah's Journey on 09/13

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Evie Ivy Over said:
This is where it starts getting confusing. Since the first information about the texts was released on 09/17 and the following came out on 09/19, it seems that maybe another friend provided text messages that hadn't been seen yet by LE on the 17th.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html
09/19

From surveillance video police have found, it appears that Graham simply was walking in the wrong direction while trying to meet up with friends. Police detective James Mooney said that in her text messages to friends, Graham indicated that she was lost and disoriented, at one point saying she was on Main Street when she actually was on Preston Avenue.

Graham also indicated that she believed she was walking back toward her home when she was actually headed the opposite way, authorities said. She also texted friends asking for someone to come find her after she realized she was lost.

They're saying she thought she was on Main Street, but was actually on Preston Ave. How do they know that?
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Wanted to bring this forward bc it has good info about what HGs texts were indicating. I had forgotten about this...
 
That Washington Post link is great - I hadn't heard anything about Hannahs texts that night (aside from the last one). I'm now convinced she was just lost and disorientated, recognised she was heading to the mall and thought she'd get a bus/cab home.
 
ajc748 said:
That Washington Post link is great - I hadn't heard anything about Hannahs texts that night (aside form the last one). I'm now convinced she was just lost and disorientated, recognised she was heading to the mall and thought she'd get a bus/cab home.
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The article clarifies a lot, making it clear HG wasn't planning on being on the DM. I think she was heading to the buses at the end of the mall, JMO.
It is just so hard to comprehend and accept that this all happened by CHANCE. One small change in the evening -on either JM or HGs parts- would have meant HG would still be alive, gearing up for Thanksgiving Break, and midterms. [emoji20]
 
themom said:
Wanted to bring this forward bc it has good info about what HGs texts were indicating. I had forgotten about this...
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Personally, it seems this article (as well as others we have seen) is a conglomeration of various texts sent that night and we have no way of knowing the content of each text or where Hannah was when she sent them. For those who think she might have decided to head to the mall to catch a taxi home, I just can't figure out why she would walk that far instead of staying right where she was. I mean, WHO does that? I don't think Hannah did that either. IMO
 
Bonacker said:
I can't imagine she'd be denied entry a few minutes after having already patronized McGrady's, tho. Especially if she had just left and was only returning a few minutes later to retrieve a cell phone or something. (Only case I can imagine that happening would be if she was so drunk and disorderly that she was ejected from the pub and therefore barred from re-entry --- but that seems highly, highly unlikely, doesn't it?) Also, why would we have the evidence of the whole "Can I help you?"/"No, I'm just walking" exchange if she were returning to McGrady's only a few minutes after leaving. Right?
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We haven't heard that Hannah "patronized" McGrady's that night, have we? She may have "tried" to enter and was denied. Or, she may have simply asked to use the ladies room and was allowed to do so. During that visit she might have left something behind outside or inside (she didn't know which) so she returned, began looking around outside. That may have been when the bouncer noticed her and kept his eye on her knowing she was underage. As she approached the door he might have asked why she was back again and she replied that she was just walking. If she didn't ask to go inside (BACK inside IF this was her second time at McGrady's that night) then she might have found outside what she had lost earlier that night. MOO of what "might" have occurred.
 
Conductor71 said:
Please see my above post #1235 for what LE has to say about her texts and being lost. They were able to know where she actually was based on where she thought she was and her friends state that the area she was in was confusing.

We may find it hard to believe she could not find her way, but given the area was new to her; she was drunk; and it was night, so I can see that as the most likely scenario. Keep in mind she got turned around heading East when she wanted to head West, and during the day you have the sun to guide you at minimum. I also had my own little theory of Privet Drive; that is the more your surroundings look the same, the easier it is to become and remain lost. Especially if you are in some sort of brain fog. She was surrounded by houses and apts plus street intersections that look vaguely all the same. It is like losing your car in a parking lot, looking for your seat in a dark theater, etc. IMO this is why she looks really out of it at McGrady's. Recall how she walks around the pub and stumbles; I think she is stunned that she is there and nowhere near any residences. At this point, I think she continues on to the mall and has a sense of purpose. I think maybe friends directed her there to maybe say we'll meet you or that it was far easier to get a bus or ride back from there, IMO.

It took me a long time to grasp that maybe she was just lost. I don't think that we have any supporting info that she was meeting someone, but I can see how we might want to believe that too. Depends on our experiences. I have been utterly lost a block from my home in a blizzard, and I have seen other people lose their sense of place when drunk. That is what convinced me.
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Yes, thanks for the w.post link. It's a good article about the texts, but I tend to agree with ILOKAL that I'm still not sure we're seeing them all in context, etc. I just personally am not very convinced by the texts that she was lost the entire time- what is it- nearly an hour? I think she for sure was lost during some of that. Just not the entire time.

While I'm not an avid Harry Potter reader/watcher, I did read your Privet Drive theory earlier and you make some great points about that. I'm certainly "directionally challenged" myself even on a good day. But I just don't think she was lost the entire time. I think she had something else going on that was driving her. Too many inconsistencies for me to think she was lost for soooo long. Others have mentioned some of the things that don't make sense- she could have used her phone gps if she had her phone, she could have asked any myriad of people where she was and how to get to xyz, she could have stayed put while she told her friends she was lost, etc.

But I get that when you're drunk and it's dark people's mind go noodle sometimes. Still though. A variety of pieces of this case just don't make me think she spent that long just randomly wandering the streets of C-ville. But of course- yes, it's certainly possible.

eta: yep, I see where her friend says she herself finds that area confusing in the article- sorry, missed that the first time. Thanks. I guess I just don't think it's that confusing of an area- near her apartments and The Corner. HG living there 2 weeks, and having been an undergrad for a year prior and frequenting The Corner, it is interesting to me that she/her friend would find it confusing. JMO
 
ILOKAL said:
If Hannah got turned around in the area of McGrady's and called her friends for help, and if those friends called a taxi driver friend (Jesse?), then why would they suggest Hannah walk a mile further, all the way to the DTM to meet the taxi? Why not tell her to have a seat on the grass by the well-lit McGrady's and wait? That just doesn't make sense to me. Anything that suggests she went from McGrady's to the Mall to meet a ride when she was lost doesn't sound reasonable. IMO. IMO Hannah went to the Mall deliberately for a particular reason, but it wasn't to meet up with a taxi.
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No- I agree it doesn't make a ton of sense to me either, it's just one of the better options I can come up with in this whole case :) If JM had been someone she was purposefully looking for with regards to a ride, I would think the most likely scenario would be that she called him/they called him when she was closer to the DM than McGrady's (that she'd been going the direction away from her apt/party). So somehow it made sense for her to just continue that way and meet him near Tempo. But who knows- I realize that could sound far-fetched. But I still think it's possible. (And yes, makes much more sense that she'd just stay put near a light and other people, but that's baffled me from the beginning of the case as to why she didn't do that regardless.)

Agreed though, that even if not for a ride from JM, I think she quite possibly went to DM for a reason regardless.
 
I just had a thought, and although it sounds kinda crazy, it really doesn't sound crazier than lots of things we think we know in this case. Maybe after being lost for a while, she got close enough to the DM that she tried to get there (as I agree with many others, it does seem that she was intentionally going there with a purpose), because maybe she thought she knew how to get back home from the DM. I have lived in my city most of my life, and I don't get lost here. However, sometimes if someone asks me for directions to somewhere, I have said "you can't get there from here", because thinking of all the streets and turns they would need to take to get from point A to point B seemed overwhelming. I bet everyone here has said that or been told that before. Maybe she knew that once she made it the mall area, she was comfortable that she could find her way home, but in her incapacitated state, she just couldn't figure out her way back home from where she was previously. Crazy? Yeah, probably, but it may offer another scenario for her going to the DM that doesn't necessitate a planned meeting with JLM. As always, JMO

ETA...I know it has been reported that she sometimes went to McGrady's with members of the ski team, but maybe alcohol was usually already involved in those trips too, or she always rode in a car or walked with a group of others and didn't pay particular attention to how she got there, or had never yet gone there from her new apartment.
 
SteveP said:
I just had a thought, and although it sounds kinda crazy, it really doesn't sound crazier than lots of things we think we know in this case. Maybe after being lost for a while, she got close enough to the DM that she tried to get there (as I agree with many others, it does seem that she was intentionally going there with a purpose), because maybe she thought she knew how to get back home from the DM. I have lived in my city most of my life, and I don't get lost here. However, sometimes if someone asks me for directions to somewhere, I have said "you can't get there from here", because thinking of all the streets and turns they would need to take to get from point A to point B seemed overwhelming. I bet everyone here has said that or been told that before. Maybe she knew that once she made it the mall area, she was comfortable that she could find her way home, but in her incapacitated state, she just couldn't figure out her way back home from where she was previously. Crazy? Yeah, probably, but it may offer another scenario for her going to the DM that doesn't necessitate a planned meeting with JLM. As always, JMO

ETA...I know it has been reported that she sometimes went to McGrady's with members of the ski team, but maybe alcohol was usually already involved in those trips too, or she always rode in a car or walked with a group of others and didn't pay particular attention to how she got there, or had never yet gone there from her new apartment.
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I don't think that's crazy at all. I was thinking something similar. When she was going by the Shell Station, she was sort of thinking, "what the...where the heck...?" Then as she got closer she may have started recognizing landmarks and thinking, OK, DM, I've been here... I know where where the Corner is from here.
 
SteveP said:
I just had a thought, and although it sounds kinda crazy, it really doesn't sound crazier than lots of things we think we know in this case. Maybe after being lost for a while, she got close enough to the DM that she tried to get there (as I agree with many others, it does seem that she was intentionally going there with a purpose), because maybe she thought she knew how to get back home from the DM. I have lived in my city most of my life, and I don't get lost here. However, sometimes if someone asks me for directions to somewhere, I have said "you can't get there from here", because thinking of all the streets and turns they would need to take to get from point A to point B seemed overwhelming. I bet everyone here has said that or been told that before. Maybe she knew that once she made it the mall area, she was comfortable that she could find her way home, but in her incapacitated state, she just couldn't figure out her way back home from where she was previously. Crazy? Yeah, probably, but it may offer another scenario for her going to the DM that doesn't necessitate a planned meeting with JLM. As always, JMO

ETA...I know it has been reported that she sometimes went to McGrady's with members of the ski team, but maybe alcohol was usually already involved in those trips too, or she always rode in a car or walked with a group of others and didn't pay particular attention to how she got there, or had never yet gone there from her new apartment.
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I think this makes a lot of sense.

I so wish JM had decided to stay home that night. Or got deflated by the rejections at BLight earlier and just went home. :(
 
Forgive me if this has been discussed already, but is it possible that HG was throwing up (or thought she might) when she first approached the corner of McGrady's outdoor seating area? She stopped at the corner, doubled forward, then when she continued on, she seemed exhausted (hence hand on hip from the back) and seemed to be doubling up a bit till she rounded the next corner. I would imagine that a combination of drinking and running would make her sick. Perhaps when she approached the entrance of McGrady's--after having just thrown up--would provide a reason for them to turn away what seemed to be a "drunk" person.

MOO, but I think she was stumbling more from being exhausted and out of sorts than from being drunk at that point. I think she would have sobered up over time, especially by being out in the fresh air and moving around a lot.

I agree with others here that if I were lost and feeling a bit panicked, I'd have my phone in my hand the whole time. I have two college-aged daughters, and like me, their phones are not out of their hands for long even when they carry a purse. When my phone is in my back pocket, I "feel for it" a lot to make sure it doesn't come out as I walk. I did not notice HG doing this.
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
So, say she was lost--which could be a legitimate explanation. What doesn't make any sense, however, is why she didn't use the GPS to find her way, why she didn't reach out to multiple people to help her find her way, why she didn't ask someone at McGrady's to help her. Was she planning to wander around town all night long? If she knew she was lost, she had tools to resolve that.

As for McGrady's some have the theory that she was there before being seen on the video--there is a large block of missing time concerning her whereabouts prior to 12:45. And McGrady's seems to be on a gag order, so we don't know what she did or didn't say at the door. So perplexing! I'm starting to lean towards her phone going missing somewhere near McGrady's.
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I don't get why she would not seek help either. However, one thing I have learned from sleuthing is that something that is totally illogical to us, is perfectly normal or tolerable to another. I think we forget how young she was. In her mind, she had at least one friend who knew she was lost, and she probably thought she had her back so that was enough. I can see how she just wandered; I think we see her just as it is dawning on her that she doesn't know where the heck she is at McGrady's. She doesn't seem familiar with that place at all IMO.

As for GPS, I never seem to get consistent results and that is when I am lucid on a good day. Those apps are highly idiosyncratic and tricky to master IMO. I think she was probably too inebriated to even attempt it. What I don't get is why she would not ask directions using SIRI? Far easier. Given all that we don't know that she did not try a navigational tool; simply because LE has not told us doesn't mean it was not attempted.

What I find really troubling is it would seem no one did have HG's back. Someone should have helped her before she reached the DM. It was super easy once she was at McGrady's to tell her to walk on Grady Ave. If it turned into Preston she was going the wrong way. That whole trek to the mall (the running) makes little sense to me. Maybe her friends were just as directionally challenged? One said she "still" got lost and maze of streets was confusing; though to me they are actually in a grid and fairly easy. The numbering is janky but hardly a maze to me at least. All I can say is I hope that ski club was slalom and not cross country. :p

I agree something pivotal may have happened at McGrady's. I think she may have lost her phone prior to arriving there, and this is why she stays on the wrong course to DM. Remember, it was also reported that someone did offer to help her at the Pub. The biggest implausability for me in all this is that she would go through all that trouble of being lost; not accept help or ask for directions, then readily slip back into party mode when she meets JM and then drive off with him? He must have had some serious game; quite a different persona than the aggressive oaf with a toe fetish that was painted by Coy Barefoot.
 
Conductor71 said:
I don't get why she would not seek help either. However, one thing I have learned from sleuthing is that something that is totally illogical to us, is perfectly normal or tolerable to another. I think we forget how young she was. In her mind, she had at least one friend who knew she was lost, and she probably thought she had her back so that was enough. I can see how she just wandered; I think we see her just as it is dawning on her that she doesn't know where the heck she is at McGrady's. She doesn't seem familiar with that place at all IMO.

As for GPS, I never seem to get consistent results and that is when I am lucid on a good day. Those apps are highly idiosyncratic and tricky to master IMO. I think she was probably too inebriated to even attempt it. What I don't get is why she would not ask directions using SIRI? Far easier. Given all that we don't know that she did not try a navigational tool; simply because LE has not told us doesn't mean it was not attempted.

What I find really troubling is it would seem no one did have HG's back. Someone should have helped her before she reached the DM. It was super easy once she was at McGrady's to tell her to walk on Grady Ave. If it turned into Preston she was going the wrong way. That whole trek to the mall (the running) makes little sense to me. Maybe her friends were just as directionally challenged? One said she "still" got lost and maze of streets was confusing; though to me they are actually in a grid and fairly easy. The numbering is janky but hardly a maze to me at least. All I can say is I hope that ski club was slalom and not cross country. :p

I agree something pivotal may have happened at McGrady's. I think she may have lost her phone prior to arriving there, and this is why she stays on the wrong course to DM. Remember, it was also reported that someone did offer to help her at the Pub. The biggest implausability for me in all this is that she would go through all that trouble of being lost; not accept help or ask for directions, then readily slip back into party mode when she meets JM and then drive off with him? He must have had some serious game; quite a different persona than the aggressive oaf with a toe fetish that was painted by Coy Barefoot.
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BBM.

Indeed. Implausible to me too. ...Which is one of several things that make me believe she was not completely lost at that point, and not lost going to the DM.

(and re: McGrady's- I can't find a link right now but it's been said the ski team frequented McGrady's, so she would have in fact been familiar with it.)
 
Lilgal said:
Forgive me if this has been discussed already, but is it possible that HG was throwing up (or thought she might) when she first approached the corner of McGrady's outdoor seating area? She stopped at the corner, doubled forward, then when she continued on, she seemed exhausted (hence hand on hip from the back) and seemed to be doubling up a bit till she rounded the next corner. I would imagine that a combination of drinking and running would make her sick. Perhaps when she approached the entrance of McGrady's--after having just thrown up--would provide a reason for them to turn away what seemed to be a "drunk" person.

MOO, but I think she was stumbling more from being exhausted and out of sorts than from being drunk at that point. I think she would have sobered up over time, especially by being out in the fresh air and moving around a lot.

I agree with others here that if I were lost and feeling a bit panicked, I'd have my phone in my hand the whole time. I have two college-aged daughters, and like me, their phones are not out of their hands for long even when they carry a purse. When my phone is in my back pocket, I "feel for it" a lot to make sure it doesn't come out as I walk. I did not notice HG doing this.
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Hmmm...if I recall correctly HG runs after McGrady's at 12:55. I think it was to help herself sober up. If you look at her Twitter account, more than one reference is made to running off/sweating out a hangover. She was absolutely no stranger to drinking, and even made references to her tolerance level. I felt sad in looking over her tweets; she makes way too many references to drinking IMO. She had everything going for her; I just wished that she would have had a boyfriend. There would have been no wandering on her own, and no one afraid to tell her parents until 4:30 pm Sunday that she was missing. Not to say that defines us, but there is a loneliness or isolation that is conveyed on her Twitter profile, IMO.

I don't think she felt panicked. Pretty sure Longo stated that she was not at all fearful.

Kinda OT- One thing that really bothers me is that clearly HG looks out of place at both McGrady's and on the DM. I think some people just thought "look at the drunk freshman". I don't think WG was following her out of concern at all, but was eyeing her for entertainment value. He recognized she was drunk and found it humorous to watch. Same thing going on at the Pub patio, IMO. There is a schaudenfreude in watching drunk or high people. I live in a college town and see it each fall. Townies find it entertaining to watch someone stumble, have imaginary convos, etc. The police get called round the clock. I had to call 911 on a week day afternoon to report a car blocking an intersection. One student was passed out in the passenger side and the driver was out of the car "looking" for his backpack. It was right in front of him on the ground. He looked like a mime strung up as a marionette just repeating the same weird tai chi looking motions in the air over and over; kept missing his backpack by a mile. Totally tripped out on hallucinogenics. While waiting for police, people started to gather to watch and laugh, while others filmed it on their phones. Human nature I guess, but in looking back at the videos, I can see this.
 
Evie Ivy Over said:
Yes! I never thought of that possibility until you brought it up. I really think something happened at McGrady's--maybe losing her phone was part of that.
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She did appear to lean over into that shrub or whatever when she first crosses the street and arrives at the outdoor patio. Interesting!

I agree with your other post responding to me....it's very perplexing. I hope we one day find out what went on.
 
ILOKAL said:
Well, it certainly would explain a few things like her approaching McGrady's from the other direction, which she would do if she was "returning" there for the second time, as well as her seeming angst and what appears like her stopping to look around in a couple of places. I also noticed from looking at a photo of McGrady's that the area where Hannah went off screen (which we can't see) is just a grassy area. If she was looking for something in that area, I can understand that may be why the three gentlemen and the bouncer were observing her. Also, if she DID lose something at McGrady's and upon returning she found it, that alone would probably put a pep in her step for the rest of her journey.
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Jumping off your post. If Hannah went off screen in a grassy area, and she was intoxicated, might she have vomited in that location? That would make anyone look.
 
Ghostwheel said:
Jumping off your post. If Hannah went off screen in a grassy area, and she was intoxicated, might she have vomited in that location? That would make anyone look.
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Several others have suggested that might be what happened. That too would make sense but I hope that didn't happen :(
 
Regarding the recent conversations/theories about McGrady's, it seems so logical that she had been there prior to the surveillance video. She didn't stay at any of the earlier parties for very long and ventured out alone from each of them--maybe she repeated that pattern with a stop at McGrady's--she met up with some friends there then left alone to walk home.

I'm thinking now that it is at this very point that she got lost (rather than earlier when leaving the Corner party). Did she leave McGrady's for home, get disoriented/turned around, went back to McGrady's thinking her friends would still be there but they weren't? Was she looking for her friends' car when she went off camera in the surveillance video? She saw it wasn't there, swung by the door to check with the bouncer? When she realized they had left, she headed back down the road--again, the wrong way. It makes a lot more sense that she was lost for that short period of time--because she turned the wrong way at McGrady's--I just think it's too unreasonable to believe she was lost after leaving the party at the Corner, wandering for so long without getting help. It also may explain why she was visibly distressed at the DTM--because she had just realized how lost she was and didn't know how she would get back at that hour of the night.
 
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