Hannah's Journey on 09/13

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4MYGUYS said:
And still they can become victims.
I try to instill this in my own, and they always listen. Recently I have bought some of the recommended books and read them and passed them along, as required reading. I try to gently insert ideas in my kids and grands, about ideas read here about insisting on keeping a personal space, self awareness, caution when drinking, etc etc, and it seems they always already know these ideas and tell me new things they have learned about personal safety. Some carry weapons.
AND still they can become victims. That is the sadness.
Click to expand...
So true
 
Ollie said:
Sometimes Hannah's journey that fateful night seems like movie; we've watched her all evening at parties,restaurants,walking, running ,and texting;looking at what she wore,who she talked to,all the way to the JM encounter ;we know what happened afterward,and where she was found. It's a compelling story,because it could have been anyone of us. Being at the wrong place,at the wrong time,with the wrong person. We all know many variables could have changed everything;but it didn't happen. If good can come out of any of this ;it must be our wake up call to our kids. Hannah is what we all want our kids to achieve;if evil is to be stopped ,we have to raise kids with the power of knowledge of their own vulnerability. They need to make decisions about the people they meet ;knowing it can affect their lives. Judging character takes being aware of our own instincts,body language , asking ourselves why someone comes on too strong initially; we must make the effort to instill our kids curiosity and not making decisions based on just what they see.Just my opinions of course.
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The thing is, I do think Hannah had good situational awareness. She was a smart girl. She texted about helping the drunk girl get on the bus. She ran through the sketchy underpass area on Preston. Even after crossing paths with JM on the mall, she went to a public place with employees and lots of patrons with him. I don't think she would have normally gotten in a car with JM. I really think she was drugged in Tempo. And therein lies the moral I guess.
 
Conductor71 said:
Interesting...but I still think McGrady's is a real source of confusion for her because it was at this point she is realizing she is lost. Earlier in the evening she ate with ski club friends at the Fig Bistro and Bar. This was located near the Corner on Main at 14th St. This is near the party area. I think this place served as point of reference for her and shows how she became lost prior to McGrady's. Recall that she texted her friends that she was lost at 14th and Wertland? That is just a block North of where she had been dining and dancing. Further, LE reports her as thinking Preston was Main St. It explains how she might have left a party, took 10th St, but headed North to Preston when she really wanted Main St. I am thinking the Fig was either a rendez-vous point or at least a landmark for finding her way that night. This could explain why she is so thrown off by the Pub and walks the area. She was expecting to see the Bistro to re-orient herself, so stumbling onto McGrady's was a WTH moment.

Here is an excerpt that supports this: Graham had dinner with friends at a Corner restaurant, then left on her own and headed to two separate house parties at off campus student residences, where police say, she drank alcohol that may have impaired her judgment.

Video confirms missing UVA student...

I think she did; however, either use her GPS or someone gave her step by step directions onto the DM. It is also reported in the same article that HG is seen at the Crossing low income housing building at Preston and 4th. Pretty sure this was discussed, but I think it shows she had to have guidance on where to cross what looks like a very pedestrian unfriendly crossing across that huge BUS250 belt. She knew to head South on 4th from Preston and cross through a parking area (she was also placed at Notch Computers) and emerge right onto Market St taking 2nd past Fellini's right onto the Mall. How could she have been so out of it to not be able to self correct near where she lived but follow these very specific directions onto the DM. She had to have had gotten her bearings enough to use her GPS, or someone texted her explicit directions, the question is who did? Sorry I can't provide a map; never can get Google too cooperate with me on marking them up
Click to expand...

Is there any way to verify that Hannah took the route you post here rather than simply continuing down Preston Ave. until she reached 2nd St.? I have done Google searches for this information but found nothing. I could find nothing that indicates she was see outside Notch Computers.

Thanks in advance.
 
RSC said:
I think these are all actors, men included. So not much of an experiment.

And, FWIW, I used to party much more than I should have, and never once did I get "targeted."
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It's a tale as old as time "Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker". Yes, the predators are out there for those who are drunk or otherwise out of it. That there are now drugs that can truly make a person prey makes it even scarier.

It's not just the strangers, traffickers out there that are the danger either. Friends, who may also be drunk and their own inhibitions diminished can be the predators.
 
Conductor71 said:
Interesting...but I still think McGrady's is a real source of confusion for her because it was at this point she is realizing she is lost. Earlier in the evening she ate with ski club friends at the Fig Bistro and Bar. This was located near the Corner on Main at 14th St. This is near the party area. I think this place served as point of reference for her and shows how she became lost prior to McGrady's. Recall that she texted her friends that she was lost at 14th and Wertland? That is just a block North of where she had been dining and dancing. Further, LE reports her as thinking Preston was Main St. It explains how she might have left a party, took 10th St, but headed North to Preston when she really wanted Main St. I am thinking the Fig was either a rendez-vous point or at least a landmark for finding her way that night. This could explain why she is so thrown off by the Pub and walks the area. She was expecting to see the Bistro to re-orient herself, so stumbling onto McGrady's was a WTH moment.

Here is an excerpt that supports this: Graham had dinner with friends at a Corner restaurant, then left on her own and headed to two separate house parties at off campus student residences, where police say, she drank alcohol that may have impaired her judgment.

Video confirms missing UVA student...

I think she did; however, either use her GPS or someone gave her step by step directions onto the DM. It is also reported in the same article that HG is seen at the Crossing low income housing building at Preston and 4th. Pretty sure this was discussed, but I think it shows she had to have guidance on where to cross what looks like a very pedestrian unfriendly crossing across that huge BUS250 belt. She knew to head South on 4th from Preston and cross through a parking area (she was also placed at Notch Computers) and emerge right onto Market St taking 2nd past Fellini's right onto the Mall. How could she have been so out of it to not be able to self correct near where she lived but follow these very specific directions onto the DM. She had to have had gotten her bearings enough to use her GPS, or someone texted her explicit directions, the question is who did? Sorry I can't provide a map; never can get Google too cooperate with me on marking them up
Click to expand...

I like this analysis. I am still confused as to why she approached McGrady's from the wrong direction. She came from east to west as if she were headed home and recognized McGrady's and then headed off in the opposite direction. If she had been there a second time where is the video of her first time? I don't buy that theory. I think she was drugged at one of the other partys and it started kicking in as she walked.

There is a longer video of McGrady's that shows the time she was around the corner and when she left there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy43pVr2Ixw
 
Han said:
Is there any way to verify that Hannah took the route you post here rather than simply continuing down Preston Ave. until she reached 2nd St.? I have done Google searches for this information but found nothing. I could find nothing that indicates she was see outside Notch Computers.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Of course. I ran across the info when replying to post #1303. I had wanted to add place markers to that map of potential "lost" routes, but I am Google Maps challenged. I got so mired in trying to make the map, I forgot to update with sources.

From article:

Charlottesville Police spokesperson Lt. Ronnie Roberts said an eyewitness in the area saw Graham near 14th Street around 12:15 a.m. Saturday.

From there, Longo said Graham headed north on 10th Street, and she has been identified on video surveillance at McGrady’s Irish Pub on Grady Avenue at 12:46 a.m. In the video, Graham appears confused, first walking west in front of the bar, then circling back east.

Source: http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/09/graham-investigation-day-five

As for the Notch computer lot...I think there was some sort of mix up on addresses. I had this source, but it shows as the Computer place on Google Maps. I assumed Google new more than I did as a non-native.

The last video that police have right now she Graham walking by Citizens Commonwealth Center on the corner of Preston Ave. and Ridge McIntire.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/NBC29/posts/10152396502868753
 
FeistyCat76 said:
Ok, so I'm behind here. What evidence has been uncovered to show that she knew JM? Has someone said that she knew him? Did the others in her crowd know him and hang with him?
Click to expand...

No evidence whatsoever.
 
Conductor71 said:
Hi,

Of course. I ran across the info when replying to post #1303. I had wanted to add place markers to that map of potential "lost" routes, but I am Google Maps challenged. I got so mired in trying to make the map, I forgot to update with sources.

From article:

Charlottesville Police spokesperson Lt. Ronnie Roberts said an eyewitness in the area saw Graham near 14th Street around 12:15 a.m. Saturday.

From there, Longo said Graham headed north on 10th Street, and she has been identified on video surveillance at McGrady’s Irish Pub on Grady Avenue at 12:46 a.m. In the video, Graham appears confused, first walking west in front of the bar, then circling back east.

Source: http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/09/graham-investigation-day-five

As for the Notch computer lot...I think there was some sort of mix up on addresses. I had this source, but it shows as the Computer place on Google Maps. I assumed Google new more than I did as a non-native.

The last video that police have right now she Graham walking by Citizens Commonwealth Center on the corner of Preston Ave. and Ridge McIntire.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/NBC29/posts/10152396502868753
Click to expand...

I'm thinking after she left the party she walked down 14th St. to W. Main St. and walked down W. Main St. heading towards the DTM likely stopping at bars on W. Main looking for her friends. She then takes a left off W. Main St. onto 10th St. While on 10th St. she had to have made some turns she didn't take 10th St. right to Grady Ave. because she arrived at McGrady's by walking up Preston heading in the opposite direction of the DTM which means she got on Preston from either 9th St., 8th St., 7th St, 4th St. or Ridge McIntire Rd. She ends up on Preston and she walks to McGrady's. I think she walked passed McGrady's at first to see if her friends car was parked there. She doesn't see them at McGrady's so she decides they may be at the DTM which has multiple bars so she walks down Preston to the DTM.

I think HG was on W. Main St. because police are saying she thought she was on Main when really she was on Preston. I'm guessing this is based on text messages meaning she must have sent a text saying she was on Main. I think she had been on Main earlier and knew where she was and I think police may have made a mistake somewhere. It doesn't make sense to me that HG would think she was on Main when she was really on Preston. I think HG was aware of her surroundings and plus there are street signs all around her.

Between leaving the party and arriving at McGrady's here is the route she may have taken (it is a 24 minute walk and she may have been stopping at bars looking for her friends which would add more time):
Untitled5.jpg
 
As for the Notch computer lot...I think there was some sort of mix up on addresses. I had this source, but it shows as the Computer place on Google Maps. I assumed Google new more than I did as a non-native.

The last video that police have right now she Graham walking by Citizens Commonwealth Center on the corner of Preston Ave. and Ridge McIntire.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/NBC29/posts/10152396502868753
Click to expand...

Thanks for your speedy reply. I can see if you Googlemapped Citizens Commonwealth Center you could wonder if she went through parking lots rather than try to navigate that busy intersection.

Thanks again.
 
Here is a small bit of information about the night she went missing:

The night she went missing, she partied with ski team members Jenna Van Dyck, 20, and Hallie Pence, 21. At the Fig Bistro and Bar near campus, Graham performed in a raucous conga line with friends.

Later that night, Graham left her apartment and headed out on the town. In a maze of streets, she became disoriented and sent text messages indicating she was lost and looking for help. She was last seen on the Downtown Mall, about a mile and a half from campus.

The next day, Van Dyck and Pence were among the first to call police to report her missing.

John Graham said the first indication he had that something was wrong was when his daughter didn’t responded to an e-mail. Fear seeped in and took over.

“I thought, ‘Why hasn’t she responded to that e-mail I sent last night?’ ” Graham said. “After she first went missing, we thought ‘I wonder what’s happened?’ ‘Has she gone off with some boy or something?’ But of course she hadn’t. Then she was missing for Saturday and Sunday, and we hoped she would turn up at class on Monday. Then she didn’t. Then we hoped she had an accident or maybe got lost and we hoped we’d find her somewhere. I suppose as time went on those hopes progressively diminished.”

Graham said that while in Charlottesville, joining the massive search for Hannah, he walked the route she took the night she went missing. He was searching for a clue, for answers, something even now he knows might never come.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...g-uncertainty-and-loss/ar-BBdN8I6?ocid=ASUDHP
 
Jmm124567 said:
Here is a small bit of information about the night she went missing:

The night she went missing, she partied with ski team members Jenna Van Dyck, 20, and Hallie Pence, 21. At the Fig Bistro and Bar near campus, Graham performed in a raucous conga line with friends.

Later that night, Graham left her apartment and headed out on the town. In a maze of streets, she became disoriented and sent text messages indicating she was lost and looking for help. She was last seen on the Downtown Mall, about a mile and a half from campus.

The next day, Van Dyck and Pence were among the first to call police to report her missing.

John Graham said the first indication he had that something was wrong was when his daughter didn’t responded to an e-mail. Fear seeped in and took over.

“I thought, ‘Why hasn’t she responded to that e-mail I sent last night?’ ” Graham said. “After she first went missing, we thought ‘I wonder what’s happened?’ ‘Has she gone off with some boy or something?’ But of course she hadn’t. Then she was missing for Saturday and Sunday, and we hoped she would turn up at class on Monday. Then she didn’t. Then we hoped she had an accident or maybe got lost and we hoped we’d find her somewhere. I suppose as time went on those hopes progressively diminished.”

Graham said that while in Charlottesville, joining the massive search for Hannah, he walked the route she took the night she went missing. He was searching for a clue, for answers, something even now he knows might never come.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...g-uncertainty-and-loss/ar-BBdN8I6?ocid=ASUDHP
Click to expand...

BBM

This says the next day police were called. I thought it wasn't reported for two days. I wonder now if it was reported on Saturday and police waited another day before considering her missing? IMO it wouldn't have made a difference in HG's case but in different circumstances it might have. If some of her friends did report her missing the next days it would make more sense to me. I've wondered why no one reported her missing for two days, when she had been texting them that she was lost and come find her as Chief Longo said.
 
AnnaGrace said:
BBM

This says the next day police were called. I thought it wasn't reported for two days. I wonder now if it was reported on Saturday and police waited another day before considering her missing? IMO it wouldn't have made a difference in HG's case but in different circumstances it might have. If some of her friends did report her missing the next days it would make more sense to me. I've wondered why no one reported her missing for two days, when she had been texting them that she was lost and come find her as Chief Longo said.
Click to expand...

I caught that too. It could just be an error or maybe they did go to the police on Saturday and the police said wait another day because most people missing come back and if she isn't seen then we will report her missing.
 
Jmm124567 said:
I caught that too. It could just be an error or maybe they did go to the police on Saturday and the police said wait another day because most people missing come back and if she isn't seen then we will report her missing.
Click to expand...

I just read an article quoting Mr. Graham that Hannah was reported missing on Sunday afternoon around 4:30. So it actually was the next day after she had disappeared.
 
ILOKAL said:
I just read an article quoting Mr. Graham that Hannah was reported missing on Sunday afternoon around 4:30. So it actually was the next day after she had disappeared.
Click to expand...

Can you post a link to that article?
 
Jmm124567 said:
Here is a small bit of information about the night she went missing:

The night she went missing, she partied with ski team members Jenna Van Dyck, 20, and Hallie Pence, 21. At the Fig Bistro and Bar near campus, Graham performed in a raucous conga line with friends.

Later that night, Graham left her apartment and headed out on the town. In a maze of streets, she became disoriented and sent text messages indicating she was lost and looking for help. She was last seen on the Downtown Mall, about a mile and a half from campus.

The next day, Van Dyck and Pence were among the first to call police to report her missing.

John Graham said the first indication he had that something was wrong was when his daughter didn’t responded to an e-mail. Fear seeped in and took over.

“I thought, ‘Why hasn’t she responded to that e-mail I sent last night?’ ” Graham said. “After she first went missing, we thought ‘I wonder what’s happened?’ ‘Has she gone off with some boy or something?’ But of course she hadn’t. Then she was missing for Saturday and Sunday, and we hoped she would turn up at class on Monday. Then she didn’t. Then we hoped she had an accident or maybe got lost and we hoped we’d find her somewhere. I suppose as time went on those hopes progressively diminished.”

Graham said that while in Charlottesville, joining the massive search for Hannah, he walked the route she took the night she went missing. He was searching for a clue, for answers, something even now he knows might never come.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fo...g-uncertainty-and-loss/ar-BBdN8I6?ocid=ASUDHP
Click to expand...

Her Dad's version sounds much better than what was reported, which honestly, made her sound a lot like an afterthought:

"On Sunday, her friends and family realized that none of them had seen or had contact with her since Friday night."
 
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