I know that in the US Christmas isn't as big a holiday as it is in other countries. In Canada Christmas day is a holiday as is the 26th (Boxing Day). But as far as I know, in the US the 26th is a regular day, and in 1996 that would have been a Thursday, so I'm pretty sure the banks would have been open for business. However, it would have been almost impossible for them to get $118,000 in the specified denominations by 11:00 AM as banks generally don't open until 10:00.
Happenings of December 26
- Thread starter midwest mama
- Start date
andreww,
The logic would depend on which scenario you are willing to entertain. The R's might have returned from the White's with JonBenet and Burke snacking in the breakfast bar and Patsy elsewhere preparing for the flight the next day, and JR doing whatever?
Alternatively JonBenet is readied for bed by Patsy, doing her hair in ponytails and dressing her in the pink barbie nightgown, then leaves JonBenet to prepare for the flight. Now either from being in bed or simply ready for bed, JonBenet and Burke go down to the breakfast bar for a snack?
That might be a questionable assumption, since while JonBenet and Burke are in either her bedroom or down in the basement, both PR and JR could doing whatever parents do late at night before a vacation flight?
The presence of PR's fibers link her with the wine-cellar crime-scene but do not tell us anything about any other location, or even mandate any particular timeline.
This is consistent with the scenarios I have outlined.
Presumably you are assuming Patsy remained dressed as she was after returning from the White's?
The main assumption is that if PR and JR are ignorant regarding the Pineapple Snack then patently they were elsewhere in the house. Where or how they were dressed is immaterial since it does not impact on this assumption.
An alternative construction might be a PDI based on the large amount of forensic evidence linking PR to the crime-scene and the breakfast bar?
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Christmas IS a big Holiday here in the US, though we don't celebrate boxing day of course. If that ransom note had been real, for a situation like this, the police and FBI would certainly have been able to arrange for a bank to make those funds available. Even (real) kidnappers know people don't have that money lying around in cash. In 1996 Christmas was a Wednesday. So the 26th (when it was presumed the money would be "dropped"- would be a Thursday and banks would be open. The 26th is not a bank holiday here, only Christmas Day itself, the 25th.
All I'm saying is that patsy was likely still dressed from the party when the staging took place. So it is reasonable to assume that she was up and about when JB had her snack, and it is also a pretty safe bet that she was the one that put the ponytails in JBs hair. It is also a safe bet that she was still wearing those clothes when the garrote was fashioned in the basement.
I'm not saying anything more than I don't think this was some kind of premeditated luring by Burke. That doesn't mean Burke didn't at some point crack her over the head. I just don't buy the idea that he lured her out of bed with a snack, then lured her to the basement and sexually assaulted her.
The only thing I stand by 100% is that JB wasn't asleep when they returned from the Whites party.
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Well if you don't celebrate boxing day, it's just a one day holiday isn't it? In Canada, most people will have Christmas Eve off (half day minimum). The Christmas and boxing day. More often than not this falls adjacent to a weekend, meaning almost 5 full days off. In the US, Thanksgiving seems to be the bigger holiday.
Whatever, that year Christmas was on Wednesday and the banks would have reopened Thursday.
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Yes, it's just the one day. But many people here also celebrate Christmas Eve, although it is not a bank holiday. Employers have the choice whether to allow employees to leave work early or not.
As I mentioned, JR would have been able to get the money because the banks would be open that day. However- most banks wouldn't give a customer that amount of cash without 24-48 hours notice except in a circumstance like this would have been- an emergency. If this has been a real kidnapping and a real ransom money drop, police would have spoken with the bank.
celticthyme
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It's a Non issue. They wrote the 3 page missive about the "ransom note" themselves.
andreww,
BBM: well there is nothing to show it never happened this way? Kolar's theory is curious in one respect, that is, if Patsy is up and about, probably packing for the flight. Why would Burke take JonBenet down to the basement if he knew Patsy was likely to be checking up on JonBenet just before bedtime?
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celticthyme,
Bingo. Its fake forensic evidence, just like the size-12's Patsy never knew were not in JonBenet's underwear drawer, wonder why?
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Your question is only valid if you believe that Burke TOOK JBR to the basement with the intent to harm her or play in a way that he knew would be unacceptable.
BBM Thats what most people assume she would be doing. But during her police interview I never heard her mention that "those are the bags that I packed the previous night". John did mention that at least he had a wardrobe at the lake, so he didn't need to pack. I would have to assume that the same was true for the rest of the family. The xmas gifts were supposedly loaded on the plane the previous day, so I really don't have a clue what she would have been doing when she returned home from the Whites. She says he went to bed, but as she was still wearing the same clothes the next morning, most assume that is a lie as well. So what did she do that night?
andreww,
From memory Patsy was packing in the spare bedroom, she had bags already packed in there. I guess she was packing, why not? That is, until, someone came to tell her JonBenet fell down the stairs and hurt her head.
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Some quotes regarding packing.
Dec. 25
PR: Well, we opened our presents and uh, try to have them do it slowly so it doesn’t it’s not over with in five minutes, you know, and we all opened our things and then we had breakfast and uh, I was packing, as well as wrapping gifts that day. We were, we were going to go to the lake on the 26th so I was putting a few things together for that trip and um, and trying to get the presents together to take up there and then I was packing our suitcases to go, we were going to go on a Walt Disney cruise on. . .
TT: Okay. During the time that John was gone, was that when you were wrapping the gifts and trying to get all the suitcases packed . . .
PR: Stuff ready, right, uh huh.
TT: . . .and stuff ready to go. Okay. And you wrapped the gifts downstairs?
PR: yeah.
PR: Um, the suitcases for the cruise I think I was packing in John Andrew’s room which is that room up on the same area as JonBenet’s room.
PR: Those were two separate trips. The lake I think I was just packing a plastic bag.
PR: Because we have clothes up at the lake and uh, just taking a few. . .
The evening of the 25th
PR: I was trying to finish putting together things for in the morning and. . .
TT: Okay. Finish kind of packing, again the suitcases on the bed. Were they all finished, packed up?
PR: Um, probably pretty close to it.
PR: Well just, you know, presents. I mean, I put some presents by the back door and I don’t remember exactly, just things to go to the lake or, and so we’re doing a couple of, you know, getting things ready cause we were leaving so early in the morning. . .
PR: . . .getting things kind of laid out ready to go and that kind of thing.
TT: Okay. Do you have clothes laid out for JonBenet to wear in the morning? Did you lay her clothes out?
PR: Uh, I don’t remember laying them out, no.
TT: Okay. What about Burke? Same thing with him. Did you lay his clothes out or anything for the morning?
PR: I don’t remember dong that.
She just said she was laying stuff out! She wore what she was wearing, soon.... did she lay John's stuff out?
TT: About what time did you head up to bed that night?
PR: Um, probably around 9:30, 10:00 something like that.
Didn't the say they got home at 9:30? She hasn't stated one thing that she did that can be backed up with evidence. Such a weak interview!
Were you going to finish the Charlevoix packing the morning of the 26th when you got up?
PR: Uh, yeah, I mean, throw in toothbrushes and last minute kind of stuff, you know. Uh . . .
ST: And were the . . .
PR: . . .stuff in the car, you know, packages.
PR: Those were two separate trips. The lake I think I was just packing a plastic bag.
TT: Okay.
PR: Because we have clothes up at the lake and uh, just taking a few. . .
TT: Okay, where, was, where were you packing the plastic bag at?
PR: Um, if I remember right, I think it was uh, in the laundry room area, right outside JonBenet’s room.
Dec. 25
PR: Well, we opened our presents and uh, try to have them do it slowly so it doesn’t it’s not over with in five minutes, you know, and we all opened our things and then we had breakfast and uh, I was packing, as well as wrapping gifts that day. We were, we were going to go to the lake on the 26th so I was putting a few things together for that trip and um, and trying to get the presents together to take up there and then I was packing our suitcases to go, we were going to go on a Walt Disney cruise on. . .
TT: Okay. During the time that John was gone, was that when you were wrapping the gifts and trying to get all the suitcases packed . . .
PR: Stuff ready, right, uh huh.
TT: . . .and stuff ready to go. Okay. And you wrapped the gifts downstairs?
PR: yeah.
PR: Um, the suitcases for the cruise I think I was packing in John Andrew’s room which is that room up on the same area as JonBenet’s room.
PR: Those were two separate trips. The lake I think I was just packing a plastic bag.
PR: Because we have clothes up at the lake and uh, just taking a few. . .
The evening of the 25th
PR: I was trying to finish putting together things for in the morning and. . .
TT: Okay. Finish kind of packing, again the suitcases on the bed. Were they all finished, packed up?
PR: Um, probably pretty close to it.
PR: Well just, you know, presents. I mean, I put some presents by the back door and I don’t remember exactly, just things to go to the lake or, and so we’re doing a couple of, you know, getting things ready cause we were leaving so early in the morning. . .
PR: . . .getting things kind of laid out ready to go and that kind of thing.
TT: Okay. Do you have clothes laid out for JonBenet to wear in the morning? Did you lay her clothes out?
PR: Uh, I don’t remember laying them out, no.
TT: Okay. What about Burke? Same thing with him. Did you lay his clothes out or anything for the morning?
PR: I don’t remember dong that.
She just said she was laying stuff out! She wore what she was wearing, soon.... did she lay John's stuff out?
TT: About what time did you head up to bed that night?
PR: Um, probably around 9:30, 10:00 something like that.
Didn't the say they got home at 9:30? She hasn't stated one thing that she did that can be backed up with evidence. Such a weak interview!
Were you going to finish the Charlevoix packing the morning of the 26th when you got up?
PR: Uh, yeah, I mean, throw in toothbrushes and last minute kind of stuff, you know. Uh . . .
ST: And were the . . .
PR: . . .stuff in the car, you know, packages.
PR: Those were two separate trips. The lake I think I was just packing a plastic bag.
TT: Okay.
PR: Because we have clothes up at the lake and uh, just taking a few. . .
TT: Okay, where, was, where were you packing the plastic bag at?
PR: Um, if I remember right, I think it was uh, in the laundry room area, right outside JonBenet’s room.
Here's something else....
JR: We needed to leave by 6:30 a.m., because we were going to take off about 7:00 a.m., because we were meeting John and Melinda in Minneapolis.
TT: You guys were going to taxi to fly out by 7:00 a.m.
JR: Uh-huh.
TT: What time were you planning on getting up; what time did guys get up?
Were you going to finish the Charlevoix packing the morning of the 26th when you got up?
PR: Uh, yeah, I mean, throw in toothbrushes and last minute kind of stuff, you know. Uh . . .
ST: And were the . . .
PR: . . .stuff in the car, you know, packages.
So were they driving or taking a taxi?
JR: We needed to leave by 6:30 a.m., because we were going to take off about 7:00 a.m., because we were meeting John and Melinda in Minneapolis.
TT: You guys were going to taxi to fly out by 7:00 a.m.
JR: Uh-huh.
TT: What time were you planning on getting up; what time did guys get up?
Were you going to finish the Charlevoix packing the morning of the 26th when you got up?
PR: Uh, yeah, I mean, throw in toothbrushes and last minute kind of stuff, you know. Uh . . .
ST: And were the . . .
PR: . . .stuff in the car, you know, packages.
So were they driving or taking a taxi?
andreww,
Nope its a question not a reply. Anyway any realistic analysis reveals the case is RDI. So lots of speculation is moot. It has to be one of the only cases where everyone, suspects included, know its an inside job, no questions asked.
As part of my RDI theory I have JR revising PR's staging. Others represent this as JR rounding off his prior staging etc. Yet both JR and PR collude in a timeline together. Something neither would attempt assuming either JDI or PRDI.
Sometimes in the Ramsey case you have to factor out the invented lies which simply suit the Ramsey case. Another aspect to the case lost on many is the speed at which the R's covered up for whomever assaulted JonBenet. No medical treatment requested, Just a bizarre staging in the wine-cellar complete with a barbie doll and barbie nightgown, that JR later suggests should not be there.
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UKGuy, I really like your theory. But I have to ask, if John awoke to find Patsy covering up and JB dead, do you honestly think that he would have involved himself? I get the feeling that he would have turned his back there and then. Just too much to lose on his part.
MzOpinion8d
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I've always felt that JR would have covered for Patsy. He loved her quite a lot, more than he loved JBR I siluspect. His thinking would have been "this is already done, I can't save JBR, but I can still keep my family together so let's fix this." He seems to be very much a "problem solver" in many aspects.
You think he loved her? I think he did once, but while this all happened I felt the two of them were quit distant. I guess Johns problem was that everything he was in the business world was due to funding from Patsy's family. He couldn't exactly walk away could he?
ETA: if in fact Patsy did do it while John slept, I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when she explained that to him.