Harley in the Hangar: Chop Shop?

[musicaljoke]

Will there be charges laid for the motorcycle theft? I wonder if someone who was cleared by police for the murder might have been involved in this theft.

 

[flipflop]

I came across this article. A band just played at a nightclub in Ancaster, they went back to Cambridge to unload their equipment. Someone came along and stole their Escalade filled with $30k of band equipment. This happened the night before TB
Could be totally unrelated, as vehicle theft seems to be quite popular.
It reminded me of the FB pic of the jam session in the hanger from 2009.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2555400-truck-loaded-with-gear-stolen-from-band/

After checking the bands FB page, they stated the vehicle was located by the OPP in North Caledonia(Brantford area)

 

[broken_angel]

I agree... it may not be relevant (just some young guys screwing around), or it might be (as Matou said, could be indicative of a general attitude/propensity to take things).

Also just to clarify, this wasn't just a photo-op. There are photos of the cart in the back of DM's truck both while driving on the street and on his driveway at home. Of course we don't know if DM returned the cart to the store at a later time... somehow I don't think the neighbours would appreciate seeing it laying on the grass somewhere.

Here, grocery carts tend to wander away from the grocery stores even though No Frills has the 25 cent to use and get your quarter back when return. I can see something like a grocery cart full of groceries in a truck as a stunt, or a dare, or younger folk fooling around. While the cart technically is stolen as in removed from the rightful owner being the grocery store, there is no proof the groceries in the bags are stolen. Is there a link to these photos?

 

[broken_angel]

DM's ambition was boxed in. That's the message.

He had ambition "at" his hands and then later it was boxed in. Possibly.

I noticed the tattoo is not boxed in on the pictures in the files which makes me wonder about the significance of the box. Could it mean he felt boxed in by his ambition? Or perhaps he was boxing in his ambition to never let it go?

 

[jash]

Here, grocery carts tend to wander away from the grocery stores even though No Frills has the 25 cent to use and get your quarter back when return. I can see something like a grocery cart full of groceries in a truck as a stunt, or a dare, or younger folk fooling around. While the cart technically is stolen as in removed from the rightful owner being the grocery store, there is no proof the groceries in the bags are stolen. Is there a link to these photos?

I don't think anyone has suggested the groceries themselves were stolen? As matou has stated, the groceries were bagged so almost certainly they went through the check-out process and paid for them. To see the photos, you need to look at DM's facebook friends' accounts.

And to reiterate what I said earlier, I agree it could just be the guys messing around for a laugh. But I can't say for sure it isn't indicative of DM's general attitude (does or takes things simply for kicks/thrills).

 

[Alethea Dice]

I don't think anyone has suggested the groceries themselves were stolen? As matou has stated, the groceries were bagged so almost certainly they went through the check-out process and paid for them. To see the photos, you need to look at DM's facebook friends' accounts.

And to reiterate what I said earlier, I agree it could just be the guys messing around for a laugh. But I can't say for sure it isn't indicative of DM's general attitude (does or takes things simply for kicks/thrills).

Can we get a hint at which friend?

 

[Dion]

Ambition tattoo. I think his grandfather and his father kept telling him over the years, to have ambition. Son, you can't just sit around playing video games and drinking, you need to find some ambition. I think he got the ambition tattoo to mock his father. " look dad, I do have ambition... it is right fuc***ing here.

This has been my theory too - that's it's a mocking thing (similar to the "eye" picture). It would be interesting to find out if he added the box after the father died.

It makes no sense that his ambition was to steal other people's property (and worse) rather than make something of himself, with all the resources that had been handed him. I'm sure his "ambition" was not to spend most of his life in a prison cell, which is where his his ambition has led him.

 

[Dion]

His lawyer has questioned why the harley was released to the owner, rather than kept as evidence in the case - is this usual?

Also, I wondered if it would now be the property of the insurance company - assuming that it was insured - rather than be returned to the owner, who surely would not be able to keep the insurance money as well as the bike.

 

[flipflop]

His lawyer has questioned why the harley was released to the owner, rather than kept as evidence in the case - is this usual?

Also, I wondered if it would now be the property of the insurance company - assuming that it was insured - rather than be returned to the owner, who surely would not be able to keep the insurance money as well as the bike.

There was some talk about the insurance on another thread. There was a problem with insurance and it was not covered. Therefore, he would have gotten his bike back....or what pieces were left of it.

As for evidence, would they just need pics of it?

 

[Dion]

There was some talk about the insurance on another thread. There was a problem with insurance and it was not covered. Therefore, he would have gotten his bike back....or what pieces were left of it.

As for evidence, would they just need pics of it?

Thanks for the info - I must have missed that discussion. In that case, he must be really pleased to get (most of) his bike back, so he can at least recoup some of the cost.

 

[Alethea Dice]

His lawyer has questioned why the harley was released to the owner, rather than kept as evidence in the case - is this usual?

I wondered that too. I always thought the evidence wasn't returned until after the trial (if there will be one for the theft).

 

[musicaljoke]

I wondered that too. I always thought the evidence wasn't returned until after the trial (if there will be one for the theft).

Maybe the LE will keep just a piece of it. Was the seat with the identifying numbers returned? Wouldn't it be a bummer to get all the pieces returned except the seat?

 

[Solo712]

I think this is incorrectly conflating different criminals and their motives. Bernardo and Russell Williams did have their motives (sexual, power, etc.), but what is the motive for a wealthy individual to get involved in a risky chop shop venture? Sure, it could be greed, but it seems the risks outweigh the rewards, especially for someone already living the good life.

My theory is that perhaps DM did not have too many friends until he met this group of suburban gangsters (lol), and they were attracted to him as he offered them toys and trips, etc, but perhaps he felt he had to earn their friendship, beyond simply buying it for them, so he begins to act in a way he believes will appeal to them. He suggests a plan to steal a Harley, then some cars, etc. Perhaps this works, and he actually earns some respect from them and he therefore continues to steal vehicles and maybe moves some drugs, etc. Perhaps someone suggests turning up the gangsta dial a notch and taking a test drive and kicking the driver out and just driving away, and DM agrees, but something goes terribly wrong, and here we are.

Just a thought...

On the other hand maybe he's got a bloodlust and killed all the people that have died around him because he is a total sociopath...there is always that potential, I suppose.

I find there are two distinct groups of theories here: (1) those which see in the mounting evidence of illegal, nefarious activities in which it is not disputed DM was involved, as something consistent with, and corroborating, the charge of first degree murder of TB against him, and (2) those which hold, essentially without any evidence, simply on the suggestion of his lawyer, that there is 'a story behind [the story]' which will come out at the trial which has some 'framing aspects' in it that will exculpate DM.

Sean123 in the post above, eg. thinks there is a realistic scenario in which the planning of a theft of a $25,000 truck has his owner expulsed from the vehicle unharmed. I suppose it would be to assure that he can identify the thieves to the police. Just what every criminal would be careful to plan for. But then 'something goes terribly wrong'. Likely, TB refused to promise to talk to the cops and a gun accidentally discharged [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec-8mD_BhrU"]a la Marvin in Pulp Fiction[/ame].
No, the problem with this idea is that DM had an incinerator hauled in from Georgia to his farm thlast summer to dispose of dead bodies and it would not be animal bodies because he had no farm animals. So obviously he would be well prepared for things 'going terribly wrong'. So the incinerator, more or less puts to rest any wishful theory of an accident and non-lethal nature of DM's criminal dabbling. Incidentally, it does matter whether TB's body was burned in the contraption. The fact that the body was burned on DM's property is a sufficient explanation for its presence on the grounds.

Best,
J.

 

[Snoofo]

I find there are two distinct groups of theories here: (1) those which see in the mounting evidence of illegal, nefarious activities in which it is not disputed DM was involved, as something consistent with, and corroborating, the charge of first degree murder of TB against him, and (2) those which hold, essentially without any evidence, simply on the suggestion of his lawyer, that there is 'a story behind [the story]' which will come out at the trial which has some 'framing aspects' in it that will exculpate DM.

Sean123 in the post above, eg. thinks there is a realistic scenario in which the planning of a theft of a $25,000 truck has his owner expulsed from the vehicle unharmed. I suppose it would be to assure that he can identify the thieves to the police. Just what every criminal would be careful to plan for. But then 'something goes terribly wrong'. Likely, TB refused to promise to talk to the cops and a gun accidentally discharged
No, the problem with this idea is that DM had an incinerator hauled in from Georgia to his farm thlast summer to dispose of dead bodies and it would not be animal bodies because he had no farm animals. So obviously he would be well prepared for things 'going terribly wrong'. So the incinerator, more or less puts to rest any wishful theory of an accident and non-lethal nature of DM's criminal dabbling. Incidentally, it does matter whether TB's body was burned in the contraption. The fact that the body was burned on DM's property is a sufficient explanation for its presence on the grounds.

Best,
J.

What is maybe just another coincidence is that the incinerator was actually ordered from Manitoba (maybe ultimately shipped from TX) during a time when it appears his good and trusted buddy was living and working there. Shipped to a farm that DM may have seldom visited. The friend returned in November, just before DM started showing doubts about the hangar costs, just before WM's death, etc. Now that the car theft investigation is under way, he has fled for vacation with a couple of other buddies from the group. Sometimes things don't sit well

 

[Solo712]

I wondered that too. I always thought the evidence wasn't returned until after the trial (if there will be one for the theft).

This is highly unusual and hard to explain. The bike parts and the trailer should have been held as evidence in new charges of theft against Millard. This would take care of the motive in the Bosma case.

Best,
J.

 

[Mscree]

I haven't seen a picture yet where the words are legible. I have not seen a picture (other than the wanted poster) that shows the words "framed". Do they both say "ambition"? Do we know this for sure?

If they didn't have aframe around them why would Le point that out? I wouldn't call his name in if there was no frame. Man the first test drive guy only noticed the tat on one hand when he test drove because he drove with his hand in the twelve o'clock position if the man was in the passenger seat. We don't also know ifDM is right or left handed maybe he was wearing a watch on the other hand covering the second tattoo up

 

[lanman]

This is highly unusual and hard to explain. The bike parts and the trailer should have been held as evidence in new charges of theft against Millard. This would take care of the motive in the Bosma case.

Best,
J.

The officer in charge of the case must have thought it was ok.

Property - Evidence

Claims to property, which have been seized by the police or held as evidence, cannot be released to the public by Property Branch staff without prior written consent from the officer in charge of the case.

http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/Services/Property/Evidence.htm

 

[Mscree]

As of recently if they (LE) have been catching people breaking into cars and stealing things. they have been returning the items to their owners days after catching them before going to court. They are most Likely photographing everything. Who wants to see each and every auto part brought into court as evidence. Too Time consuming and a big waste of time. It also punishes the victim further by holding on to all the items

 

[Kamille]

As of recently if they (LE) have been breaking into cars and stealing items. They have been releasing the items to the owners before they go to court. Days after they catch the guys

Yes I do believe that photographic evidence is good enough in theft cases. I would find it hard to believe that a prosecutor would have to haul a Harley in pieces into a courtroom to prove that the Harley was stolen and found in the Millard hangar.

MOO

 

[Deucebag]

Heres a question. Lets say for example that Someone is involved in the dismantling of stolen cars at the hangar. That would make him an accesory to crime. Now, if a man died during a theft of a vehicle to be dismantled in said chop shop, would he not still be charged since he is involved in the chop shop?