Has the case fizzled a bit?

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I will take the Coroner's word for it over the story telling from ST book. That is an account that is biased.

The coroner speaking for himself is not. It is fact. The accounting from a book that wanted to point all the fingers at the Ramsey's to make himself feel better, Not so much.

Not into dragon's myself. So I guess that will just have to be left to what it is.

 

[BBB167893]

I will take the Coroner's word for it over the story telling from ST book. That is an account that is biased.

Whatever you say.

Bottom line? I may not be a legal expert, but I am a thinker. And I have a little advice myself:

Guilty or innocent, DO get a lawyer.

DON'T refuse to cooperate and say you did;

DON'T refuse a lie detector test then pay for some hack to give you one that you can wave around as if it meant something;

DON'T try to move out of the state;

DON'T let your lawyers pull myriad dirty tricks against potential witnesses;

and DON'T go on TV instead of to the cops.

Bottom line: the Constitution allows the right to a lawyer and to keep silent. It does NOT allow the right to LIE. If you refuse to talk to police, you shouldn't be judged. If you try to "game" the system, you SHOULD be judged.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Not what I say, What it is. It is fact.

If you want to discount it, your choice.

I have my own list. Get an atty and do what they say.

 

[BBB167893]

Not what I say, What it is. It is fact.

If you want to discount it, your choice.

I have my own list. Get an atty and do what they say.

And play dumb when they get up to mischief, apparently.

 

[otg]

:waitasec:

What is that odor I smell in the air here? :dunno:

Could it perhaps be dragon fire?

(It's been a while since I've smelled it that strong.)

:great:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

And play dumb when they get up to mischief, apparently.

They can act however they like.

Just get a lawyer and do what they tell you. That is why they are there. To make sure you are protected under the law.

 

[BOESP]

<snip>
The Police were trying to control the ramseys and strong arm them out of their right to be represented by counsel, and remain silent.

Whoaaaaaaaaaa. If you can't see the need to interview the parents you aren't interested in finding facts.

No one has ever said LE was cheating the Ramseys of their right to counsel and to remain silent (as in "on the grounds it might incriminate them" -- is that what you are saying?). The day of the great kidnapping John Ramsey stated he'd already been advised to retain counsel. The need was so strong he retained more than one lawyer, one for him, one for Patsy, so their wouldn't be a conflict of interest. This was before LE knew the Ramseys were going to refuse to cooperate. There is no excuse whatsoever for the Ramseys not cooperating with their counsel at their side. Four months later ... when the trail was so cold it was frozen is not what a prudent, impartial person would call cooperation.

 

[BOESP]

They can act however they like.

Just get a lawyer and do what they tell you. That is why they are there. To make sure you are protected under the law.

So your philosophy is to do whatever you have to do to save your bohiney and cast your daughter's homicide investigation to the wind.

Sounds like a coward's way out to me.

cow·ard
&#712;kou-&#601;rd/
noun
noun: coward;&#8195;plural noun: cowards
1.
a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.
synonyms:weakling, milksop, mouse;

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Whoaaaaaaaaaa. If you can't see the need to interview the parents you aren't interested in finding facts.

No one has ever said LE was cheating the Ramseys of their right to counsel and to remain silent (as in "on the grounds it might incriminate them" -- is that what you are saying?). The day of the great kidnapping John Ramsey stated he'd already been advised to retain counsel. The need was so strong he retained more than one lawyer, one for him, one for Patsy, so their wouldn't be a conflict of interest. This was before LE knew the Ramseys were going to refuse to cooperate. There is no excuse whatsoever for the Ramseys not cooperating with their counsel at their side. Four months later ... when the trail was so cold it was frozen is not what a prudent, impartial person would call cooperation.

Of course I can see the need. I just see that counsel said no so they did not do it until their lawyers were satisfied.

How was the trail frozen? Same evidence from that day. If you believe they are guilty, What is frozen?

I think that you talk when your lawyers tell you to. That is the point of hiring them..

 

[eileenhawkeye]

After their CNN interview on January 1st, the R's did not make any media appearances until May 1. Their lawyers did release statements during that time, though. The day before the May 1st PC was the first time the R's had talked to LE since JBR's body was found. You can just see the PR machine at work.

 

[BBB167893]

:waitasec:

What is that odor I smell in the air here? :dunno:

Could it perhaps be dragon fire?

(It's been a while since I've smelled it that strong.)

:great:

Anybody up for some barbecue?

 

[BOESP]

Of course I can see the need. I just see that counsel said no so they did not do it until their lawyers were satisfied.

How was the trail frozen? Same evidence from that day. If you believe they are guilty, What is frozen?

I think that you talk when your lawyers tell you to. That is the point of hiring them..

I'd talk to investigators if my daughter was dead and I was innocent, lawyers be damned. I have no doubt about what I'd do.

Frozen ... means the trail was not just cold it was frozen. The Ramseys may have had information that could have led to finding the Intruder if they'd put that information in the hands of investigators.

Imo, the Ramseys actions spoke to having something to hide and placing more importance on that than furnishing information to investigators. If you can't see that two adults at the scene of the crime might have valuable information then I'm wasting my breath.

 

[BBB167893]

They can act however they like.

They're not supposed to conspire with their high-placed friends to railroad potential witnesses into prison on phony charges so they can't testify! Or didn't you know about that?

Just get a lawyer and do what they tell you. That is why they are there. To make sure you are protected under the law.

They went WAY beyond protection in this case, Scarlett. "Reasonable doubt for a reasonable price."

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

First, I'd talk to investigators if my daughter was dead and I was innocent. I have no doubt about what I'd do.

Frozen ... means the trail was not just cold it was frozen. The Ramseys may have had information that could have led to finding the Intruder.

The Ramseys actions spoke to having something to hide and placing more importance on that than furnishing information to investigators. If you can't see that two adults at the scene of the crime might have valuable information then I'm wasting my breath.

I am sure that is what people say they would do. I would think I would do the same thing too. But I don't know. I just don't. Maybe the lawyers got in the way on this one. Maybe but they already had them and were most likely in no frame of mind to think. I know what frozen means I just don't see how that is possible if you are an RDI.

I don't think that the way they handled it was the best way, But I also don't see it meaning anything else. Just that they took their Lawyers advice and waited til they gave them the okay to talk.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

They're not supposed to conspire with their high-placed friends to railroad potential witnesses into prison on phony charges so they can't testify! Or didn't you know about that?



They went WAY beyond protection in this case, Scarlett. "Reasonable doubt for a reasonable price."

Lawyers are paid to protect their clients. they have one goal. I won't fault them for that.

 

[BOESP]

I am sure that is what people say they would do. I would think I would do the same thing too. But I don't know. I just don't. Maybe the lawyers got in the way on this one. Maybe but they already had them and were most likely in no frame of mind to think. I know what frozen means I just don't see how that is possible if you are an RDI.

I don't think that the way they handled it was the best way, But I also don't see it meaning anything else. Just that they took their Lawyers advice and waited til they gave them the okay to talk.

BBM: It's called looking for facts with an unbiased eye.

 

[redheadedgal]

I will take the Coroner's word for it over the story telling from ST book. That is an account that is biased.

The coroner speaking for himself is not. It is fact.

what about the DA's word? would it not be "fact"?

from the article you provided:

District Attorney Alex Hunter said Thursday there may have been other considerations that led police to ask the body be withheld for additional time.

"For example, was there everything that the CBI (Colorado Bureau of Investigation) needed? Had a pediatrician been involved? A child abuse expert involved?" Hunter said.

and as for your claims of certain accounts/"stories" being biased, seems the writer of that daily camera article you provided was biased too -- in favor of the R's. he was hand-picked by the family to attend an private interview with them in early 1997. and in getting that "scoop", he became a pawn imo. and he didn't let them down...

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

what about the DA's word? would it not be "fact"?

from the article you provided:




and as for your claims of certain accounts/"stories" being biased, seems the writer of that daily camera article you provided was biased too -- in favor of the R's. he was hand-picked by the family to attend an private interview with them in early 1997. and in getting this "scoop", he became a pawn imo. and he didn't let them down...

They can spin that all they want. The coroner has a different story and was ready to release the body and they wanted him to hold it so they could use it to get the R's to talk.

It is a MSM article from the archives. The coroner is the one who is quoted and did the interview. IT is not a second hand account.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It is jarring to read anything Ramsey related when you've just been on Madeleine McCanns's threads.

The Ramseys wrote the script, the McCanns followed it faithfully.

The similarities in these cases are -

• beautiful little blonde daughters
• opportunity
• wealthy white folks, members of the upper rung of society
• lawyered up day one, hour one almost
• never physically looked for their child
• suspected or suggested sexual abuse of the child
• summoned attention to themselves immediately - on the phone with friends, family, talking rather than searching
• unexplained delay between the child disappearing and calling LE
• apparent staging
• elements of "care" taken, blanket for JB, cradling for MM
• an alleged (yet totally untraceable) intruder
• allegations and legal actions against the investigating officers
• litigation - and more litigation against everyone who questions them
• expenditure of extreme amounts of money on lawyers and PR
• participating in "documentaries" and tv, months and years later
• engendering unrelated publicity and support (JR, running for office, KM, rep for missing child charity)
• showing zero emotion
• showing inappropriate emotion
• publishing books to tell "their side" month and years later
• money making endeavours in their children's name, little accountability
• political interference engendered
• attempts to steer investigation
• Refusal to cooperate with, and criticism of LE from day one.

and that's just the bits my poor old brain remembers. :banghead:

:moo:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Incredible considering neither the Mccanns or Ramseys have even been charged with anything..