Has the case fizzled a bit?

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It says the vaginal wall/hymen shows erosion.....

ero·sion noun \i-ˈrō-zhən\
: the gradual destruction of something by natural forces (such as water, wind, or ice) : the process by which something is eroded or worn away

erode verb \i-ˈrōd\
: to gradually destroy (something) or to be gradually destroyed by natural forces (such as water, wind, or ice)

It happened over time, gradually.......

Maybe.. Maybe..

But it could be that it was never fully intact.. There are many ways for girls to naturally do damage to the hymen..

"The tissues of the vulva are generally very thin and delicate prior to puberty, so many girls and teens tear or dilate their hymen while participating in sports like bicycling, horseback riding, gymnastics or while inserting tampons. A girl may not even know this has occurred, since there may be little or no blood or pain involved when this happens."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/12449-female-hymen/#ixzz2fk1ZS8yA
 
Maybe.. Maybe..

But it could be that it was never fully intact.. There are many ways for girls to naturally do damage to the hymen..

"The tissues of the vulva are generally very thin and delicate prior to puberty, so many girls and teens tear or dilate their hymen while participating in sports like bicycling, horseback riding, gymnastics or while inserting tampons. A girl may not even know this has occurred, since there may be little or no blood or pain involved when this happens."

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/12449-female-hymen/#ixzz2fk1ZS8yA

Respectfully, I don't think that JB's hymen eroded due to her using tampons, as far as sports, I haven't seen anything that she was active in sports. JMO
:moo:
 
From: http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682513/The%20Body#AutopsynbspMicroscopicnbspExaminationnbspofnbspVaginalnbspMucosa

Chronic Inflammation. "All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation."

Isn't chronic meaning from prior?

To me, chronic means ongoing. Like an infection you get cleared up and then it comes back, over and over again. It happens more than once and is an ongoing problem/concern.

Salem

From Wiki regarding the medical use of the term chronic: A chronic condition is a health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in natural history of disease.[1] The term chronic is usually applied when the course of the disease lasts for more than three months.[1] Common chronic diseases include arthritis, asthma, cancer, COPD, diabetes and HIV/AIDS.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_%28medicine%29"]Chronic (medicine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Not real scientific but provides a basic understanding, I think.
 
Respectfully, I don't think that JB's hymen eroded due to her using tampons, as far as sports, I haven't seen anything that she was active in sports. JMO
:moo:

No. But she was very active. She preformed she danced rode bikes..

I am not saying it is THE answer, just a possibility.

We don't know what she did and did not do.
 
From: http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w...picnbspExaminationnbspofnbspVaginalnbspMucosa

Chronic Inflammation. "All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation."

Isn't chronic meaning from prior?

I would think that chronic like Salem said would be prior and recurring..

I just don't know if that is what I see here.. Not from all the evidence yet.

And I have not forgotten.. I am still looking. I think I found it when having a conversation a while back on the subject here. It is taking a lot of searching but I will keep looking..
 
To me, chronic means ongoing. Like an infection you get cleared up and then it comes back, over and over again. It happens more than once and is an ongoing problem/concern.

Salem

From Wiki regarding the medical use of the term chronic: A chronic condition is a health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in natural history of disease.[1] The term chronic is usually applied when the course of the disease lasts for more than three months.[1] Common chronic diseases include arthritis, asthma, cancer, COPD, diabetes and HIV/AIDS.

Chronic (medicine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not real scientific but provides a basic understanding, I think.

Maybe we should visit JB' s chronic conditions. Is there anything anyone else has seen in the autopsy that suggests chronic vaginitis? Other chronic gynecological disorders? Because I don't remember it in the autopsy report but I don't have it in front of me right now.
 
acute: sudden, recent. chronic: ongoing, persistant

acute vs chronic inflammation
acute: seconds/minutes/hours/days
chronic: occurs over a longer period of time

acute vs chronic pain
acute: begins suddenly, may be mild or severe, lasting just a moment, or weeks or months
chronic: persists, whether it is mild or severe

hives (reaction to something ingested or touched): acute

contact dermatitis: chronic, if there's a history of inflammation to things ingested or touched
each new episode is acute, and is added to the chronic history
 
I've been thinking about her hymen being eroded due to her being active, dancing, and riding a bike. I don't think that is what caused it. She was 6 years old. I could see it in an older child or a tween due to being older and being active for a longer amount of time, but I just don't see it eroding in a 6 year old due to her being active. All just my opinion and speculation.
 
I've been thinking about her hymen being eroded due to her being active, dancing, and riding a bike. I don't think that is what caused it. She was 6 years old. I could see it in an older child or a tween due to being older and being active for a longer amount of time, but I just don't see it eroding in a 6 year old due to her being active. All just my opinion and speculation.

I read several studies years ago and did post them here somewhere in the Ramsey Forum. The studies concluded its possible for young children to have erosion in one area of the hymen mimicking sexual abuse. The studies also indicated children can indeed be penetrated by a penis and the hymen can remain entirely intact. Some children have incredibly elastic hymens.


I'll do a search here and see if I can find those studies I linked previously, it was years ago.

That said, I will trust the experts in this case as they are experts and have seen the slides and tissue for themselves.

Here's the link. It was discussed for several pages

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=931421"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - What do the profilers say?[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=931630"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - What do the profilers say?[/ame]

These studies are commonly used by defense attorneys.
 
Sorry to quote myself, I tried to copy and paste my original post here but it ended up bumping up the post "what do the profilers

S ay?" You can read in its entirety there.
 
I've been thinking about her hymen being eroded due to her being active, dancing, and riding a bike. I don't think that is what caused it. She was 6 years old. I could see it in an older child or a tween due to being older and being active for a longer amount of time, but I just don't see it eroding in a 6 year old due to her being active. All just my opinion and speculation.

People--and defense lawyers--can argue to death that there could have been other causes for vaginitis and chronic vaginal injuries in a six year old.

My point of view is this: what are the odds that a six year old found sexually assaulted, bludgeoned, and strangled also just happened to have a documented history of chronic vaginitis, vaginal injuries, and bed-wetting which are all unrelated to sexual and violent injuries inflicted on her at death?

I'm sorry, but I find that so unlikely as to be irrational thinking.

Especially when we consider the other circumstances of her death, including the family's legendary efforts to thwart the investigation from Day One.

JMO
 
People--and defense lawyers--can argue to death that there could have been other causes for vaginitis and chronic vaginal injuries in a six year old.

My point of view is this: what are the odds that a six year old found sexually assaulted, bludgeoned, and strangled also just happened to have a documented history of chronic vaginitis, vaginal injuries, and bed-wetting which are all unrelated to sexual and violent injuries inflicted on her at death?

I'm sorry, but I find that so unlikely as to be irrational thinking.

Especially when we consider the other circumstances of her death, including the family's legendary efforts to thwart the investigation from Day One.

JMO

I agree with you. I believe she was chronically sexually abused based on the totality of evidence and the expert panel that decided she was.

But ...I have to be perfect honest, the medical literature raises serious doubts.

I'll have to simply have to defer to the experts that evaluated this case.
 
I've been thinking about her hymen being eroded due to her being active, dancing, and riding a bike. I don't think that is what caused it. She was 6 years old. I could see it in an older child or a tween due to being older and being active for a longer amount of time, but I just don't see it eroding in a 6 year old due to her being active. All just my opinion and speculation.

I thought I read somewhere that exercise, bike riding, etc was rarely the cause of a broken hymen. That it was a very overhyped possibility. The two most common non sexual intercourse ways to break the hymen is masturbation and tampons. Masturbation is a possibility but not tampons.
 
I've been thinking about her hymen being eroded due to her being active, dancing, and riding a bike. I don't think that is what caused it. She was 6 years old. I could see it in an older child or a tween due to being older and being active for a longer amount of time, but I just don't see it eroding in a 6 year old due to her being active. All just my opinion and speculation.

A hymen doesn't "erode" from any of these activities. That does not meant that EVERY virgin has an intact hymen- there are some circumstances that may cause it to break, but not erode. JB did not menstruate at 6 years old, so there was no tampon use. I accept what the coroner said- it looked like the result of digital penetration.
 
A hymen doesn't "erode" from any of these activities. That does not meant that EVERY virgin has an intact hymen- there are some circumstances that may cause it to break, but not erode. JB did not menstruate at 6 years old, so there was no tampon use. I accept what the coroner said- it looked like the result of digital penetration.

Oh, I accept what the experts say. Someone had posted that those could cause a hymen to erode, I was just thinking that I couldn't see any of those in this case.
 
IMO it's been years since I researched that to death. It's a shame the photographs linked no longer work. One showed an actual hymen described very similarly to JonBenet's as described.

I've since learned that the experts didn't only rely on photographs but had tissue samples and microscopically examined the suspected areas.
 
The autopsy report also revealed chronic erosion of epithelial cells in one portion of the vaginal wall. The posterior vaginal wall, and the position was given specifically.

A doctor who used to post on the original WS and then on another well-thought of forum which no longer exists explained what the internal vaginal tissue erosion meant.
JonBenet was held or positioned in a certain way over a period of time ( I do not mean for hours each time but on MULTIPLE occasions) and she was penetrated vaginally in the same trajectory each time by a foreign object. We do not know if the object was an adult finger ( most likely, grooming for sexual abuse), or another object which the adult had absolute control over.
I believe this to be absolutely correct as the physician who explained it was extremely diligent and knowledgeable and consulted with several pediatricians who had examined sexually abused young girls under general anesthesia. Also, there were some post- mortem studies of known sexually abused young females in JBR's age group included in her presentation.

Her impeachable knowledge and the way the explanation is SO simple once you have it is what totally convinced me of the beginnings of sexual abuse before JonBenet was murdered. It also helped me formulate my theory, which has never wavered, and has never overlooked case evidence.

Thanks for reading. I miss my friend, the doctor. Many of us used to discuss the case in conference calls way back when. I would have given 20 years of my life to help put her killer behind bars then. No chance of legal justice, IMO, now, so it's a moot point, but we really really cared and spent many hours a week on the case.
Yeah, it's changed. We who have been with this case since Dec. 26 when her little body was carried out of the house in a tiny black bag on a gurney with all the snow and candy canes in the driveway of the picture- perfect house would all be insane if the pressures and drive to see justice served hadn't lessened due to natural events surrounding the key figures in the case.

BTW, has anyone stopped to think lately- This case never would have hit national media IF the Ramseys had chosen Dec. 26th ( any time after midnight) as her date of death. JonBenet, Little Miss Christmas, became famous in death because her mother wanted Dec. 25th on her headstone. The story was memorable because it was a beautiful child killed on Christmas night in the beginning.

( Reminded me- the date 12/25 was also inscribed on the ID bracelet which was a gift she got to open days early-- another reason I have agreed with the theory that they planned to dump her body but were unable to do so unexpectedly. The ID bracelet would have identified her remains in the mountains when found).
 
The autopsy report also revealed chronic erosion of epithelial cells in one portion of the vaginal wall. The posterior vaginal wall, and the position was given specifically.

A doctor who used to post on the original WS and then on another well-thought of forum which no longer exists explained what the internal vaginal tissue erosion meant.
JonBenet was held or positioned in a certain way over a period of time ( I do not mean for hours each time but on MULTIPLE occasions) and she was penetrated vaginally in the same trajectory each time by a foreign object. We do not know if the object was an adult finger ( most likely, grooming for sexual abuse), or another object which the adult had absolute control over.
I believe this to be absolutely correct as the physician who explained it was extremely diligent and knowledgeable and consulted with several pediatricians who had examined sexually abused young girls under general anesthesia. Also, there were some post- mortem studies of known sexually abused young females in JBR's age group included in her presentation.

Her impeachable knowledge and the way the explanation is SO simple once you have it is what totally convinced me of the beginnings of sexual abuse before JonBenet was murdered. It also helped me formulate my theory, which has never wavered, and has never overlooked case evidence.

Thanks for reading. I miss my friend, the doctor. Many of us used to discuss the case in conference calls way back when. I would have given 20 years of my life to help put her killer behind bars then. No chance of legal justice, IMO, now, so it's a moot point, but we really really cared and spent many hours a week on the case.
Yeah, it's changed. We who have been with this case since Dec. 26 when her little body was carried out of the house in a tiny black bag on a gurney with all the snow and candy canes in the driveway of the picture- perfect house would all be insane if the pressures and drive to see justice served hadn't lessened due to natural events surrounding the key figures in the case.

BTW, has anyone stopped to think lately- This case never would have hit national media IF the Ramseys had chosen Dec. 26th ( any time after midnight) as her date of death. JonBenet, Little Miss Christmas, became famous in death because her mother wanted Dec. 25th on her headstone. The story was memorable because it was a beautiful child killed on Christmas night in the beginning.

( Reminded me- the date 12/25 was also inscribed on the ID bracelet which was a gift she got to open days early-- another reason I have agreed with the theory that they planned to dump her body but were unable to do so unexpectedly. The ID bracelet would have identified her remains in the mountains when found).

I have to disagree, strongly. There's been high-profile cases involving missing/murdered children that have happened at all different times of the year. In this case, we have a "child beauty queen" from a wealthy family; of course it would still be a huge story if she was killed on December 26 or January 26. Also, in PMPT, a CNN reporter said when all they knew about the case was that a child was killed on Christmas, the story didn't have a "national feel" to it until they found out about the pageants. Lastly, didn't it take months before JBR got a headstone?
 

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