Has The Defense Changed Your Mind About ICA's Guilt?

[BD1]

It was what I perceived that I saw, and what I write is honestly and completely what I felt. The fact that you or anyone can go back & rewatch it doesn't mean that I'll change what I know I perceived at the time. Also, GA did NOT at ALL seem credible to me. Tea leaves or not, think of me being on the jury. They don't have the benefit of someone like you laying it out for them; advising them on what a "load of crap" this is.

I'm not trying to sell you the accident scenario, in fact, you will see that I'm only just mentioning it for the first time as it relates to the abuse. As for him knowing he could "out" her at anytime, well there are things I can't explain. I'm not qualified to explain it, but I think maybe an abuser has a strange power over the victim. Maybe he felt assurred that his dirty little secret would be safe. Maybe he degraded her to the point that he knew she would be too ashamed to say it, though she did. I don't have all the answers.

I'm with ya. I think it's just as likely that one or the other of GA/LA abused her as not. Sounds like the FBI thought so too. But I don't believe any of the rest of it, and I don't think molestation should be considered in the guilt phase.

 

[katydid23]

It was what I perceived that I saw, and what I write is honestly and completely what I felt. The fact that you or anyone can go back & rewatch it doesn't mean that I'll change what I know I perceived at the time. Also, GA did NOT at ALL seem credible to me. Tea leaves or not, think of me being on the jury. They don't have the benefit of someone like you laying it out for them; advising them on what a "load of crap" this is.

I'm not trying to sell you the accident scenario, in fact, you will see that I'm only just mentioning it for the first time as it relates to the abuse. As for him knowing he could "out" her at anytime, well there are things I can't explain. I'm not qualified to explain it, but I think maybe an abuser has a strange power over the victim. Maybe he felt assurred that his dirty little secret would be safe. Maybe he degraded her to the point that he knew she would be too ashamed to say it, though she did. I don't have all the answers.

Why would she let her daughter be bathed and changed and tucked into bed by her molester every night? As an abuse victim that makes no sense to me at all.

Why would George go the doctor with her during her prenatals if he was afraid he might be the father?

Why would she sit in jail for 3 years if it was just an accident?

 

[momtective]

No, the defense has not changed my mind, they have however taken me from a mindset of being perfectly okay with ICA receiving LWOP to one of wanting absolutely nothing less than death for her. Today's spectacle did nothing more than confirm just exactly how evil ICA is and the lengths she will go to for her own gain.

 

[gawdess]

I respect your opinion, but to me trying to read someone's reactions is like reading tea leaves. I just re-watched his testimony and I see nothing to indicate that she 'broke' or her 'soul tore'. Casey shown hardly any emotion other than shaking her head so I really have no idea how anyone could arrive to that conclusion, no offense.

I have to agree with you. I read a lot of people's observations about how Casey appeared to react to various arguments being made in court today. I do not find these kind of observations very relevant.

 

[realdeal]

This is why a lot of females dont come forward with sexual abuse accusations, nobody believes them. Peverts love it when people ridicule the sexually abused, it helps them get away with it and keep on abusing more and more children.

The majority of the responses on this forum only confirm to someone like Casey that had she told the truth from the very beginning nobody would have believed her anyway.

Exactly why do you think she was abused? Seriously, why didn't she bring this up sometime in the past 3 years while she was safely behind bars??? So you are saying that an admitted, known liar can lie about 99 percent of all events, but are incabable of lying about abuse? :waitasec:
Please help me understand this.

 

[chckmate22]

Agree with everyone WOW..I have to say it raises so many more questions than it provided answers...JB states KC is a LIAR...so we are supposed to believe her now? The paternity test...um sorry didn't she try and trick JG into that also? RK hid the body...omg you have gone off the deep end with that...CA on June 17th telling co-workers about the ladder...um how about June 16th ICA bopping around blockbuster....The SA have tapes, recording etc....ugh the stupidity..If you are coaching your client on emotions you may want to work on she needs to really cry for CAYLEE..today she only seem to really cry when it was about her...puke..BIZARRE family ...your not kidding but the truth will come out ..your client takes the cake on BIZARRE..LIAR..SELFISH...ps I know some throw mud to see what will stick...you should have stuck with just a handful not a bus load...

 

[Pattymarie]

I taped IS today. Heard everything that happened over the course of the day. Just now watching Linda's opening statement. Watching ICA. Watching her in light of everything we now know is about to come.
Seriously...watch this again. ICA= Consciousness of Guilt. No doubt about it. Despite JB's fantasy lies.

 

[Nikki 01]

It was what I perceived that I saw, and what I write is honestly and completely what I felt. The fact that you or anyone can go back & rewatch it doesn't mean that I'll change what I know I perceived at the time. Also, GA did NOT at ALL seem credible to me. Tea leaves or not, think of me being on the jury. They don't have the benefit of someone like you laying it out for them; advising them on what a "load of crap" this is.

I'm not trying to sell you the accident scenario, in fact, you will see that I'm only just mentioning it for the first time as it relates to the abuse. As for him knowing he could "out" her at anytime, well there are things I can't explain. I'm not qualified to explain it, but I think maybe an abuser has a strange power over the victim. Maybe he felt assurred that his dirty little secret would be safe. Maybe he degraded her to the point that he knew she would be too ashamed to say it, though she did. I don't have all the answers.

Like I said, I respect your opinion. I am not trying to sway your opinion otherwise. I'm just expressing my feelings. At the end of the day her reactions, whatever they may be, aren't proof of anything. In general I'm not a fan of reading into body language because to me it's junk science. I like dealing in facts. I certainly could never accuse someone of sexually abusing a child based on a person's facial reaction for a couple of seconds at most.

As for the jury, sure, it's possible someone like you will be on it, but who is to say there won't be someone like me on it either? That's why they hold deliberations. There could be all sorts of people with all sorts of point of view and they can painstakingly lay it out there in an attempt to answer all of the questions. To me the defense's scenario leads to more questions than answers the more someone thinks about it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[BD1]

Why would she let her daughter be bathed and changed and tucked into bed by her molester every night? As an abuse victim that makes no sense to me at all.

Why would George go the doctor with her during her prenatals if he was afraid he might be the father?

Why would she sit in jail for 3 years if it was just an accident?

Because for some victims, those boundaries are gone. Because some victims believe so heartily that is it their fault that their abuser has no fear of being outed. This scenario is how incest continues down through generations of folks.

I don't believe it was an accident, so can't address that.

 

[realdeal]

Ohhh, just wanted to add...


IF indeed ICA was abused by her brother and father, and then knowingly left them in charge of any of Caylee's personal care anyhow, she should at the very least be sentenced to LWOP for child endangerment.

 

[DaughterAlice]

Why would she let her daughter be bathed and changed and tucked into bed by her molester every night? As an abuse victim that makes no sense to me at all.

Why would George go the doctor with her during her prenatals if he was afraid he might be the father?

Why would she sit in jail for 3 years if it was just an accident?

1. I don't know. You should ask my mom.

2. Maybe he never actually had sex with her; there are other ways to be sexually abused other than the actual act of sex.

3. I never said it was an accident. In fact, I didn't say anything at all about that.

 

[Chanler]

It was what I perceived that I saw, and what I write is honestly and completely what I felt. The fact that you or anyone can go back & rewatch it doesn't mean that I'll change what I know I perceived at the time. Also, GA did NOT at ALL seem credible to me. Tea leaves or not, think of me being on the jury. They don't have the benefit of someone like you laying it out for them; advising them on what a "load of crap" this is.

I'm not trying to sell you the accident scenario, in fact, you will see that I'm only just mentioning it for the first time as it relates to the abuse. As for him knowing he could "out" her at anytime, well there are things I can't explain. I'm not qualified to explain it, but I think maybe an abuser has a strange power over the victim. Maybe he felt assurred that his dirty little secret would be safe. Maybe he degraded her to the point that he knew she would be too ashamed to say it, though she did. I don't have all the answers.

Hi, DaughterAlice, I appreciate your sincerity and I can somewhat imagine your courage sharing your doubts on a board where most people think that Casey is guilty.

I don't think that Casey's comments and assertive tone in recorded prison calls indicate that either of her parents held much power over her.

 

[Caligram]

JB chose the wrong profession. He should have studied to be a bullfighter. What follow-up by LE was neglected, according to JB? Once ICA was arrested, she refused to answer any questions regarding the disappearance of Caylee Marie. ICA was prepared for her session with LE, quoting her rights as if she had already memorized them. Why has it taken almost three years for the DT to come up with "accidental death" with some prior sexual abuse of ICA thrown in to throw off the timing? JB stalled on this case, waiting for all the releases from SA, so they would have a starting point. He never had any believable answers when he took on this case, and he has had a free ride with the media ever since. He started out with some money from selling off little Caylee Marie's photos. He made money from the media, always promising that he had the answer everyone was asking. He created delay after delay, hoping that the SA's and the "bloggers" would give him some new ideas for defending ICA. The picture that he finally came up with today was a disgusting last-ditch effort to explain ICA's behavior. He finds another "M" word. "Molestation" to replace "Murder". I hope that his entire soap opera theory collapses and bursts like a bubble around him, and that this trial ends quickly before he can present some new options to float for the jurors.
I am really really angry that he tried to float this sexual abuse/accidental drowning tale after all this time. Please, I speak from my heart. I do not mean to hurt anyone who has suffered sexual abuse. I know what a terrible burden it is to carry that around and the shame that helps keep it a secret from those that can make it stop.

 

[BD1]

Exactly why do you think she was abused? Seriously, why didn't she bring this up sometime in the past 3 years while she was safely behind bars??? So you are saying that an admitted, known liar can lie about 99 percent of all events, but are incabable of lying about abuse? :waitasec:
Please help me understand this.

I think she brought it up well before any of this even happened with Caylee. She hadn't yet worked it into a 'defense', tho, is why she didn't bring it up sometime in the last 3 years (that we are aware of, anyway.)

 

[PAXIMUS]

Gosh no. Their theory makes no sense:

1. Why stay in jail for almost three years for something you didn't do?
2. Why keep an accident a secret for 3 years when facing the death penalty?
3. Why would GA not naturally do CPR or call 911? If they are trying to insinuate that he didn't call 911 because he wouldn't want doctors examining the child and finding evidence of molestation, which I sort of got the sense they were implying, that doesn't explain why CPR was not used and besides, Caylee did see a pediatrician so that is a nonsensical implication.
4. Why would GA's first reaction be to scream loudly at casey but then suddenly and immediately switch to a cover up to protect her?
5. Isn't it convenient that the first inklings that casey may be alleging sex abuse occurred right after death penalty mitigation experts spent HOURS consulting with her at the jail?
6. And why was the first hint of such allegations not that GA put his penis in her mouth repeatedly, but that LA molested her nightly and she thinks, possibly, that maybe her dad did too? Trying out the theory the defense was cultivating in you casey?
7. What motivation would GA have to hide an accident? Why would he rather risk his daughter being sentenced to death?
8. If GA was this sickening molester, why did she leave Caylee with her parents all the time?
9. If GA was this sickening molester, why did casey tell him during a jail visit that none of this was his fault - he was the best dad and granddad ever?
10. Why were triple layers of duct tape placed on caylee after she accidentally drowned?
11. Why was someone conducting multiple searches for chloroform, inhalation, how to make chloroform, the ingredients used to make chloroform, death, how to make household weapons, shovels, etc., at times when GA and CA were at work?
12. Why were high levels of chloroform found in casey's trunk, the levels being so high that they prompted an computer forensics search for chloroform on casey's computers?
13. Why didn't casey expose this after she found out that her father's grand jury testimony helped indict her? Why wait almost three years?
14. Why did GA seem so scared that a body may be in casey's trunk when he picked it up at the amscot if he knew Caylee was already dead and her body discarded?
15. Why, if casey is so scared of her family that she never told the truth about what happened, despite the state asking for the death penalty, did she express rage and jealousy over their concern for Caylee and their family celebrations while she sat in jail?
16. Why was Tony Lazzaro, the first boyfriend she had who refused to have Caylee in his bed, at his house at night and the first to express that he did not want kids but if he did, he would only want a boy, the only person casey really wanted to speak to when she was arrested?
17. Why would ever diligent CA suddenly forget to do something she always remembered to do to keep Caylee safe, and leave the pool ladder down?
18. Why would casey insist repeatedly that Caylee did not have an accident, when pressed by investigators who stated the only other alternative was that she was coldhearted monster?
19. Why did GA try to angrily confront casey about Caylee's whereabouts when she was released on bail if he knew she died in an accident?
20. Why would GA try to cover up an accident only to make statements to LE and in the grand jury that ultimately implicated her in the murder of her child and that led to GJ indictment?
21. Why the heck would Kronk keep and hide an unrelated, dead child's body for several months, especially when he had nothing to do with her death? Remember, if he was found in possession of that body, he would be the one on trial for murder right now.
22. Why has casey really never shed a tear until today, for her dead baby, who she loved ever so much and who she doted on? Why, if she loved her child so much, did she exhibit such callous indifference about the death of her baby?

Good questions but if you understood the mentality of one who has been sexually abused and how they react in certain situations, how they have been raised to live a lie and put on a happy face to the everyone outside their home/family life and compartmentalize/dissociate everything bad that happens to them then I think you would be able to answer most of these questions yourself.

What shocks me the most is that so many people here on websleuths who spend so much time following true crime are unable to see that Casey Anthony has all the classic signs of a girl who has been sexually abused, in fact she is a textbook case.

 

[Chanler]

I'm with ya. I think it's just as likely that one or the other of GA/LA abused her as not. Sounds like the FBI thought so too. But I don't believe any of the rest of it, and I don't think molestation should be considered in the guilt phase.

Hi, BD1, here as elsewhere, the FBI is just as likely to conduct tests to exclude possibilities as to verify them.

 

[hinman]

I think I could partially believe that an accident happened in the swimming pool, except she didn't mourn at all. Wouldn't there be a little bit of mourning going on with an accidental drowning

 

[LinasK]

This is why a lot of females dont come forward with sexual abuse accusations, nobody believes them. Preverts love it when people ridicule the sexually abused, it helps them get away with it and keep on abusing more and more children.

The majority of the responses on this forum only confirm to someone like Casey that had she told the truth from the very beginning nobody would have believed her anyway.

You know, I've said the very same thing myself in the past, as I am a victim, I've even entertained the possibility in the past that Casey was sexually abused. :hand:But what I heard today totally changed my mind. It was the salacious way Jose Baez brought it up in open court with George right there for pure shock value! Casey showed no fear when he did, and... if it had happened, how did continuing to live with George protect Caylee from this "abuser"??? I think Casey is crying wolf, and it's just another lie to try to beat a murder rap!!!

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I have seen Swiss cheese with less holes.

Lets see: Child neglect resulting in a 'drowning' (a felony) resulting in the death of a child of tender years. <---------- Oh, a 1st degree murder.

All it did for me is additional charges:
Obstruction of body
Abuse of a corpse
Get GA AND CA arrested too -- won't bother me one bit.

ETC, etc.

Bumping this post of mine to share I asked in another thread if this would still be 1st degree as the more I thought about it the more I doubted it was - and the kind RHornsby answered:
"Child neglect that results in death is Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child as charged in count three and is punishable by up to 30 years in prison. "
Link: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6546130&postcount=173"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - BIG HOLES in the defense theory[/ame]

 

[uklaw]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, and I could hardly pay attention to JB, but did his "George was there when Caylee died" story match up to what we know of KC's cell phone pings? If GA left the house at 12:50 p.m., did JB's story match up with potential pings from GA's cell?
I could not unerstand what time he was saying this all went down and how that correlated to cell pings. For sure the state has GA's cell records, hopefully his pings.

OK this doesn't make sense.

Casey's cell map (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...8592,-81.309128&spn=0.265966,0.43396&t=h&z=11) shows no ping anywhere near the anthony's house on the 16th.

Further, Ping 15 is 9 minutes by car away from the Anthony household and is for the time period 8:46 am - 11:47 am.

So (a) how did she make a phone call lasting that long and (b) why was her phone so far away from the pool where Caylee allegedly died.,