Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[Granna6]

No, can't say I have been hunting game birds lately. On my bucket list now, I guess.

Does the game bird engage in hand to hand combat, too? Taking that off the bucket list if I have to deal with true angry birds.

I've always thought that those searches pertained to plans she had for mommy and daddy. After all, she had told friends that her parents would be vacating the house. I think Casey happened to be caught before she could accomplish those plans.

 

[SarahEcho]

devil's advocate here - the plant growth could have held the mandible. tape on one side of hair still could have just landed there. and heart sticker residue someone's imagination. no evidence to back up that one.

The tape could have also been put their post mortem to hold the jaw shut, as a decomposing body may have a protruding tongue and some other unpleasant stuff to think about going on. Also likely, an effort to stage a supposed kidnapping.

Heart sticker residue wasn't too convincing to me as concrete evidence but doesn't make much difference to me one way or the other, fairly minor in the broad scheme of things. I can't say that I would envision George whipping out a sticker book to place one on duct tape though.

 

[Nova24]

They did not prove to me that duct tape was across her face. And you are right, I'm not good with all the different terms, aggravated child abuse would be the charge for chloroform.

Aggravated Child Abuse is felony murder. She could have just wanted to make Caylee sleep and I think there is some truth to that but poisoning her would become ACB which is still felony murder. It's all very sad and saddest of all so avoidable. That's the part that kills me.

 

[pcrum12]

So you think she is going to risk LWOP or even the DP because of an accident??? And not demand to testify to prove her innocence......

I do. She's just not going to give an inch. And honestly, I don't even think she told her DT this theory. Too many holes.

 

[MEM2010]

I have always thought this was all a tragic "accident" that the inmate tried to cover up. And by "accident" I mean accidental overdose of xanax, benadryl, chloroform. This is why I feel like she felt the need to cover it up because she didn't want to get in trouble for committing these heinous acts against her child.

I've always felt like there have been a grain of truth in the inmates fantasies

"Zanny took her" (xanax overdose?)

"I don't know where she's at" (revisted dump site and couldn't find her again?)

Maybe the 31 days of partying was the inmates attempt of acting "normal" so no one would suspect anything? Or maybe she knew her days were numbered and she partied like there was no tomorrow. This case is so mind bending b/c there are so many different scenarios that could fit. I truly believe that if she were not confronted by Lee and Cindy the inmate would probably never report Caylee's absence.

Oh my I seem to have begun to ramble.

Is there reasonable doubt? I don't think so. I think the state (and the defense) tied it up pretty well at the end. Caylee Marie is dead and the inmate (no matter HOW it happened) is ultimately responsible since she was the mother and caregiver and she failed at keeping her child safe. And not only that, she led law enforcement and the nation to dead end after dead end. Down roads that all led AWAY from her.


this is all my own opinion, of course.

 

[Nova24]

She wants to be seen as a victim in all of this. The only real victim I see is Caylee. I don't think there was a drowning here but that sounded better then chloro. The drowning also allowed her to play victim she could bring her dad into it. I think she should have admitted to chloro and to panicking and putting her in trunk. It's believable. I don't think she meant to kill her but it's a huge risk to take.

 

[Nova24]

I don't think they will rush but I also don't think they will want to spend next weekend deliberating either. I think we get a verdict at the latest on Friday.

 

[SarahEcho]

Not one expert said plant growth could hold the mandible in place and heart stickers were found in Casey's room........
In 31 days why didnt she report her child missing or dead??? Does not make one oz of sense...

That's the problem with this case, Bon, nothing about it really makes any sense. I can see a woman killing her child and trying to get away with it but this case just sorta seems off the tracks somewhere. Always that uneasy feeling of pieces to the puzzle missing in the couch somewhere.

 

[Who_What_When]

You need to understand the term Corpus Delicti or body of crime. Its all the evidence in this case that shows guilt or innocence. Its not the actual body of the victim or how the victim died. You can have a guilty verdict in a murder case without a body at all. Without a cause of death because there's no body to examine. I have not seen any real evidence of an accident to consider. What does that leave? The prosecutions case.

I understand the term Corpus Delicti and that is why I'm saying that the SA hasn't proven BARD that a crime has occured. All we know is that Caylee died and her death was hidden. We know that her mother went on about life without any worries and didn't report her missing for 31 days (that is until her mother made her report it) and that she lied about her whereabouts. This screams Aggravated Manslaugher but without proving how or why she died or that an acutal crime of murder was committed it makes it difficult to say that BARD she was murdered.

 

[RANCH]

You might lie if you had a history of not being made to take responsibility for anything. You might spend three years in jail if you really thought you had the chance of avoiding a multi decade sentence by going to trial. You might lie if you were narcissistic enough to believe that you were smarter than everyone around you, and could fool them by throwing your dad under the bus. I'm not an expert, so I can't diagnose her, but to people with NPD or APD self preservation is the number one goal, no matter what the cost is to anyone else. MOO

Your right.And that's why we have our justice system.Look at the guy from yesterday who flipped JA the bird. He's caught red handed and still says he will appeal. Give me a break!

 

[Nova24]

Is Agg Man 13-30 years in Florida?

 

[pcrum12]

well goodnight fellow WSers. See you all Sunday bright and early.

 

[GeekyGirl]

You need to understand the term Corpus Delicti or body of crime. Its all the evidence in this case that shows guilt or innocence. Its not the actual body of the victim or how the victim died. You can have a guilty verdict in a murder case without a body at all. Without a cause of death because there's no body to examine. I have not seen any real evidence of an accident to consider. What does that leave? The prosecutions case.

Again, I think that's a false dilemma. If the defense's theory is disproven, the state doesn't get to win by default. I know what you're saying about the body of the crime, but every case is unique and in this one there is very little evidence of what actually happened the day the crime was committed. In cases where people have been convicted of 1st degree murder there is often times extremely strong evidence that they were planning or plotting prior to the disappearance, evidence consistent with a planned murder and cover up. Here you have some possible evidence of premeditation three months prior, but nothing that ties Casey to chloroform any nearer to the crime. You have duct tape which may or may not have been placed prior to Caylee's and a very bizarre and disjointed disposal and cover up. It's too much and too little at the same time. I don't think it will be hard to get a manslaughter conviction, at minimum, but I think they might have a hard time with 1st degree murder. I don't know, maybe they would have an easier time convicting her if the body had never been found. ( No disrespect to Caylee meant, I'm glad she was found and laid to rest properly)

 

[RANCH]

Again, I think that's a false dilemma. If the defense's theory is disproven, the state doesn't get to win by default. I know what you're saying about the body of the crime, but every case is unique and in this one there is very little evidence of what actually happened the day the crime was committed. In cases where people have been convicted of 1st degree murder there is often times extremely strong evidence that they were planning or plotting prior to the disappearance, evidence consistent with a planned murder and cover up. Here you have some possible evidence of premeditation three months prior, but nothing that ties Casey to chloroform any nearer to the crime. You have duct tape which may or may not have been placed prior to Caylee's and a very bizarre and disjointed disposal and cover up. It's too much and too little at the same time. I don't think it will be hard to get a manslaughter conviction, at minimum, but I think they might have a hard time with 1st degree murder. I don't know, maybe they would have an easier time convicting her if the body had never been found. ( No disrespect to Caylee meant, I'm glad she was found and laid to rest properly)

Premeditation can be as little as a few seconds. Like the amount of time to place three strips of tape over someones airways.

 

[Bon]

I understand the term Corpus Delicti and that is why I'm saying that the SA hasn't proven BARD that a crime has occured. All we know is that Caylee died and her death was hidden. We know that her mother went on about life without any worries and didn't report her missing for 31 days (that is until her mother made her report it) and that she lied about her whereabouts. This screams Aggravated Manslaugher but without proving how or why she died or that an acutal crime of murder was committed it makes it difficult to say that BARD she was murdered.

How did Laci and Conner Peterson die??? No cause of death! They washed ashore months later. And Scott P is sitting on death row right now......

 

[Who_What_When]

Again, what proves it to me is that she never testified and gave us no answer. If I accidentally killed my child, and let's face it, a lot of us are parents on here and probably have a few heart stopping moments in our lives where an "accident" could have turned fatal. But if that actually happened and people were accusing you of premeditated murder wouldn't you tell everyone what "really happened."

She's guilty of murder, don't know about first degree but she's definitely guilty.

That's what I've been saying. I agree that she guilty I just don't know if they proved BARD that she's guilty of first degree murder.

 

[amickeyfan]

I've always thought that those searches pertained to plans she had for mommy and daddy. After all, she had told friends that her parents would be vacating the house. I think Casey happened to be caught before she could accomplish those plans.

your thoughts may not be that far fetched.. she may have started with her daughter since she was the smallest and would be easier to do. The next would be her Dad. She would have had to do him second because he would have caught on if Mom went second. Mom's too much in denial and covering up for her to have her go second. The neck breaking may have been for mom, and the self defense may have been for Dad, since he would have put up the best fight of all for his life.. your thoughts really are not that far out.. God only knows what goes thru her mind..

 

[GeekyGirl]

Premeditation can be as little as a few seconds. Like the amount of time to place three strips of tape over someones airways.

I'm not disputing that, but what proving someone's state of mind in the space of a few seconds is difficult. Although, I could probably say that I was confident it was premeditated if I believed beyond a reasonable doubt that duct tape was the COD, because of the time it would take a person to actually suffocate, but again, I'd have to confident about the COD.

 

[larryphx]

The only thing the defense did was ruined more people's lives...

 

[GeekyGirl]

How did Laci and Conner Peterson die??? No cause of death! They washed ashore months later. And Scott P is sitting on death row right now......

No, but they had the girlfriend who said that he told his wife was already dead weeks before the murder, and what appeared to be a cold and well calculated plan to dispose of the bodies in a manner that suggested he was trying to ensure they'd never be found, and if they were, that the bodies couldn't be connected to him and evidence of antemortem trauma to Laci's body suggesting violence.