Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[JBounds]

Still hasn't created a reasonable doubt with me. She killed Caylee.

 

[PaulaF513]

We may not know exactly when and where and how it happened because KC refuses to speak. The big however is that Caylee is found dead, wrapped in her own blanket, in a swamp...with duct tape across her little mouth and nose.

I also, have never embraced the chloroform theory, mainly because I don't think it's as simple to concoct as we are being led to believe. I highly doubt KC would have attempted it. And frankly, JB's version of the computer searches are totally plausible as it's something I would do, upon seeing something that I was unfamliar with and wanting to know more.

The real problem with my accepting my own theory is that it makes me sicker than ever at what the baby suffered at the hands of her mother.

That said, I have some trepidation that JB today rose to the occasion and delivered the best oratory that I have heard from him in 3 years. Not to say that his voice hasn't irritated the bile out of me, but I do fear he has raised questions that may cause a hung jury.

 

[GeekyGirl]

We may not know exactly when and where and how it happened because KC refuses to speak. The big however is that Caylee is found dead, wrapped in her own blanket, in a swamp...with duct tape across her little mouth and nose.

I also, have never embraced the chloroform theory, mainly because I don't think it's as simple to concoct as we are being led to believe. I highly doubt KC would have attempted it. And frankly, JB's version of the computer searches are totally plausible as it's something I would do, upon seeing something that I was unfamliar with and wanting to know more.

The real problem with my accepting my own theory is that it makes me sicker than ever at what the baby suffered at the hands of her mother.

That said, I have some trepidation that JB today rose to the occasion and delivered the best oratory that I have heard from him in 3 years. Not to say that his voice hasn't irritated the bile out of me, but I do fear he has raised questions that may cause a hung jury.

I think the state made a good choice by not emphasising the chloroform in the first part of their closing. IMO the best chance for a first degree verdict is going with the duct tape.

 

[Trident]

So you think it was an accidental drowning,but ICA shouldn't be walking the street? Interesting.

I didn't say I thought accidental drowing, I said "I don't know". All I DO know is Caylee is dead and believe there is enough disfunction going on with the whole family to makes us all nuts.

My opinion only

 

[Trident]

In your opinion, is there enough for a verdict of aggravated manslaughter?

From where I stand right now, there isn't enough actual PROOF to hold her for anything.

Edited to add: I see some neglect, in the 31 days, but manslaughter, no.

 

[GeekyGirl]

From where I stand right now, there isn't enough actual PROOF to hold her for anything.

Edited to add: I see some neglect, in the 31 days, but manslaughter, no.

I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to change your mind, just interested in other viewpoints. In your opinion, do you believe GA's testimony that Caylee was alive when he went to work on the 16th?

 

[RANCH]

I didn't say I thought accidental drowing, I said "I don't know". All I DO know is Caylee is dead and believe there is enough disfunction going on with the whole family to makes us all nuts.

My opinion only

So when you say "I don't know" your saying you don't know if she is innocent or guilty? Fair enough.

 

[Trident]

I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not trying to change your mind, just interested in other viewpoints. In your opinion, do you believe GA's testimony that Caylee was alive when he went to work on the 16th?

That one is easy - NO

 

[cuppy199]

IMO there is more then enough proof. And it all points to ICA. Guilty of 1st degree murder. I dont care if she gets DP or LWOP either way she isnt gonna hurt another child or anyone else again. :seeya: ICA

 

[PaulaF513]

Paraphrasing here..."..it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car..."

The car....was the hearse. The car was in KC;s possession as she galivanted across Florida on her imaginary road trip to a seminar. The car reeked, as several witnesses who were familiar with the stench of human decomp testified.

I don't understand why the SA didn't nail CA with cleaning the trunk, because she very obviously did just that. GA spoke of maggots swarming in the trunk....where did they go. CA vacuumed them up.

I suppose I know why they didn't ask...she would have lied again.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

OK - I have been a "SHE'S GUILTY FRY HER" kind of gal from day 31. No ifs, ands, or buts. But JB's closing today actually made me think that IF there had been a drowning and IF she disposed of the body...I could see that.

So THEREFORE I pray, pray, pray the state hammers home both the choloroform searches and the duct tape. That shows premeditated murder. With out that as solid, solid proof, I could buy accidental.

I absolutely hate ICA and feel almost the same towards JB......and if he had thrown out that crazy molestation charge in the beginning....just the accidental drowning, I think he would have it. Because it all boils down to did she drown, or did ICA plan on killing her.

But then again....why sit in jail without telling anybody it was an accident until the eve of trial, literally.

NEVERMIND...........

 

[GeekyGirl]

That one is easy - NO

Okay then. Not based on the trial, do you have a personal opinion as to when you think Caylee died?

 

[Trident]

Paraphrasing here..."..it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car..."

The car....was the hearse. The car was in KC;s possession as she galivanted across Florida on her imaginary road trip to a seminar. The car reeked, as several witnesses who were familiar with the stench of human decomp testified.

I don't understand why the SA didn't nail CA with cleaning the trunk, because she very obviously did just that. GA spoke of maggots swarming in the trunk....where did they go. CA vacuumed them up.

I suppose I know why they didn't ask...she would have lied again.

She would lie, he would lie - why?

My opinion only

 

[Trident]

Okay then. Not based on the trial, do you have a personal opinion as to when you think Caylee died?

I believe she may/probably died on the night of the 15th. I would have guessed prior to that except for the pics of Caylee on the gr grandfather's lap. If that is true, there are one helluvalot of possible scenerios for this childs demise, and they don't all center around Casey killing her.

My opinion only

 

[GeekyGirl]

From where I stand right now, there isn't enough actual PROOF to hold her for anything.

Edited to add: I see some neglect, in the 31 days, but manslaughter, no.

By neglect, do you mean negligence that led to Caylee's death? Or negligence after she died?

 

[RANCH]

I didn't say I thought accidental drowing, I said "I don't know". All I DO know is Caylee is dead and believe there is enough disfunction going on with the whole family to makes us all nuts.

My opinion only

Ok, but I see you didn't say why ICA shouldn't be walking the streets.Do you think she could harm herself or others?

 

[GeekyGirl]

I believe she may/probably died on the night of the 15th. I would have guessed prior to that except for the pics of Caylee on the gr grandfather's lap. If that is true, there are one helluvalot of possible scenerios for this childs demise, and they don't all center around Casey killing her.

My opinion only

As Ranch said, fair enough.

 

[Boytwnmom]

that JA referenced. A world where you suspend your disbelief and ignore your common sense and all you know about people and how they act and all the evidence and lies and see ICA as an innocent victim of a massive conspiracy.

The doubts they try to raise are not "reasonable" and that is the real linchpin of this case. What is reasonable? We are supposed to find everyone else's actions, behavior, reactions suspicious and evil but not ICA's, Hers are understandable and excusable in the rabbit hole world.

I trust that the jurors have common sense and life experience and can see through the lies told by the defendant and her attorneys. ICA was with Caylee, there was a dead body in the trunk, ICA lied about everything and couldn't have cared less that her daughter was gone. Her body is found around the corner from her house with duct tape over her face and a heart sticker on it. If it was an accident she wouldn't nor would her attorney have allowed her to sit in jail for 3 days never mind 3 years. Common sense people-works every time.

 

[Darkprincess65]

As an observation only *my disclaimer*

I do believe that without all the media involvement from the start? Without all the technology that allows us to be involved in a court room. Without all that same technology we would not allow ourselves to become too overly and emotionally charged with the information we do have.

I did read just the court transcripts from the depositions. All of them. I did look at ALL the pictures in evidence. ALL of them. I read ALL the statements given by family, neighbors, friends and ICA herself. I left all the media and technology elements out of it and came to my own conclusions.

What I had decided is the same today as it always has been. Except enhanced and changed somewhat based upon what I know. And it scares me to think that after defense's last statements in closing? That the thought of aggravated manslaughter came to mind instead of premeditated murder. Simply because the State didn't make a real big deal about it until the end and that I think was to simply point out ICA's where abouts on certain days. A pattern of behavior and lies in other words. To enhance the dominate behavior of ICA and that is to lie. Continually.

I can associate the chloroform to the boyfriend. I would go looking as well.

I do not believe GA was in any way involved.

I do believe CA was very controlling and probably genuine in her concern since she has provided a lot of support. As well as spent so much time with Caley. I have grandchildren too. And after them being with me for an extended amount of time *more than a month*? And they leave? I get depressed. As a parent? I am always in my kids' business. Adult or otherwise. AND always concerned about the well being of grandchildren. My kids do not fight me on that issue! It's an accepted fact.

I do not believe it was an accident.

ICA was/is Caley's mom. It is ULTIMATELY her responsibility to ensure the safety and well being of her child. Legally and morally. No not calling for 31 days is not a crime. But it certainly is suspicious considering everyone else's statements to her whereabouts.

Caley was found in a swamp. Dead. For a very long time. Undiscovered and disposed of like common household garbage.

The hits on the car the backyard the hairband everything else? Smaller details which led into much bigger details.

Premeditated? No.

Deliberate? Yes. *misleading leo as to the child's whereabouts*

Murder? I'm on the fence now.

Homicide? Yes.

At the hands of her mom either willfully or by accident? YES!

LWOP instead of death.

*and I still have the State's rebuttal argument to survive!*

There is always a possibility that after trial and verdict? Sentencing etc? There COULD be a retrial but instead using the insanity plea because of the circumstances involved and the family dynamics. Insanity plea is not always easy to argue either. But I'm sure defense is probably wishing now that they had used it during this trial. So in retrial? I can see another Susan Smith and she's committed to a mental ward. *I might eat my words later but I really don't want to watch or read about the appeals for this case! LOL*

 

[Flossie JMO]

I think Jose did quite well this afternoon, I was very surprised honestly. I am hoping Linda does great tomorrow. Jeff was brilliant this morning imo. I was very disappointed with the laughing and will not be suprised if HHJBP smacks both Ashton and Baez. JMO