Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[MEM2010]

No the defense has not created reasonable doubt and for me it's simple.


Neither JB nor CM addressed why the chloroform, neck breaking, household weapon making searches were DELETED right after a visit by Det. Melich

And not only being deleted, being the only thing deleted on the computer. To me that just screams premeditation and is more damning than the searches alone.

 

[jeepgirlva]

If George knew where the body was then why not sent casey and hoover to the right spot? does not add up...

 

[jeepgirlva]

JB is doing a good job but I still know ICA is guilty ...just hope the jury does ..

 

[Who_What_When]

I think Jose did quite well this afternoon, I was very surprised honestly. I am hoping Linda does great tomorrow. Jeff was brilliant this morning imo. I was very disappointed with the laughing and will not be suprised if HHJBP smacks both Ashton and Baez. JMO

ITA and am surprised by some of the comments that say the DF didn't do well. I am no fan of the DT but I thought Jose's presentation was really good and I especially liked that he had pictures and charts. Some people are visual and seeing it in front of you helps to process the information. I definetly think he raised reasonable doubt on the chloroform.

I love the SA team and really hope they do a great job tomorrow. I thought Jeff was great as well and was really glad that he gave the jury a motive as it helped tell the story, but I felt like he didn't address the actual crime as much as he should have so I'm hoping that Linda does that tomorrow.

 

[Trident]

If George knew where the body was then why not sent casey and hoover to the right spot? does not add up...

I'm not saying GA knew where the body was, but the flooding might have moved it.

 

[Peepers]

JB had a good opening and a good closing, everything in between was hooey.....I think the verdict will depend on if the jurors were honest in the fact that they were not really following this all along and are able to look at it in the legal sense. If so, there is reasonable doubt for the jurors. (according to the legal description). I cant see the jury convicting her of first degree murder at this point. I think it will be aggravated manslaughter, BUT you never can tell with a jury.

 

[ohiogirl]

As an observation only *my disclaimer*

I do believe that without all the media involvement from the start? Without all the technology that allows us to be involved in a court room. Without all that same technology we would not allow ourselves to become too overly and emotionally charged with the information we do have.

I did read just the court transcripts from the depositions. All of them. I did look at ALL the pictures in evidence. ALL of them. I read ALL the statements given by family, neighbors, friends and ICA herself. I left all the media and technology elements out of it and came to my own conclusions.

What I had decided is the same today as it always has been. Except enhanced and changed somewhat based upon what I know. And it scares me to think that after defense's last statements in closing? That the thought of aggravated manslaughter came to mind instead of premeditated murder. Simply because the State didn't make a real big deal about it until the end and that I think was to simply point out ICA's where abouts on certain days. A pattern of behavior and lies in other words. To enhance the dominate behavior of ICA and that is to lie. Continually.

I can associate the chloroform to the boyfriend. I would go looking as well.

I do not believe GA was in any way involved.

I do believe CA was very controlling and probably genuine in her concern since she has provided a lot of support. As well as spent so much time with Caley. I have grandchildren too. And after them being with me for an extended amount of time *more than a month*? And they leave? I get depressed. As a parent? I am always in my kids' business. Adult or otherwise. AND always concerned about the well being of grandchildren. My kids do not fight me on that issue! It's an accepted fact.

I do not believe it was an accident.

ICA was/is Caley's mom. It is ULTIMATELY her responsibility to ensure the safety and well being of her child. Legally and morally. No not calling for 31 days is not a crime. But it certainly is suspicious considering everyone else's statements to her whereabouts.

Caley was found in a swamp. Dead. For a very long time. Undiscovered and disposed of like common household garbage.

The hits on the car the backyard the hairband everything else? Smaller details which led into much bigger details.

Premeditated? No.

Deliberate? Yes. *misleading leo as to the child's whereabouts*

Murder? I'm on the fence now.

Homicide? Yes.

At the hands of her mom either willfully or by accident? YES!

LWOP instead of death.

*and I still have the State's rebuttal argument to survive!*

There is always a possibility that after trial and verdict? Sentencing etc? There COULD be a retrial but instead using the insanity plea because of the circumstances involved and the family dynamics. Insanity plea is not always easy to argue either. But I'm sure defense is probably wishing now that they had used it during this trial. So in retrial? I can see another Susan Smith and she's committed to a mental ward. *I might eat my words later but I really don't want to watch or read about the appeals for this case! LOL*

ITA you said it better than me.

 

[Schu7]

It was so sad for me to watch the search for truth go completely down the drain today.

 

[Trident]

Ok, but I see you didn't say why ICA shouldn't be walking the streets.Do you think she could harm herself or others?

From what I've seen of her, since I don't know her personally, I believe there is something wrong with her, but I don't know what. So, no, I would not like her walking the streets unless she got some sort of help. Now, to answer the question, yes, I believe she could possibly be harmful in some way, that's why she needs some kind of phychiatric intervention.

My opinion only

 

[ohiogirl]

I am sickened by the MSM attention to this case, the NG bombshells, the Tony Pipitone supposed "investigative journalist" insights, the DT pandering to the media for $$, this is about a baby who died at the hands of her "Mother of the year", the family dysfunction, the DT refusal to acknowledge any forensic science evidence. JB was totally deficient to defend this case and he should have given it up from the get go.
Is any one watching the Anthony Sowell trial? He murdered 11 or more women. No one is giving that trial the exposure that it is due. LE ignored evidence because the victims were not newsworthy. Caylee Anthony is deserved of much more than her family and the DT is giving her. This "mother of the year" instigated her death and should be held accountable.
I don't give a **** what her attorneys bring up in their closing arguments. Her "mother of the year" was charged and took responsibility for her well being. She died on HER WATCH. She is the culpable party and no one else. Thank you for listening.

 

[PaulaF513]

She would lie, he would lie - why?

My opinion only

Personally, I think both GA and CA knew the smell in the car was decomp...they both had familiarity with it. But I don't think they believed the body had been Caylee's. These 2 live in lala land and probably thought that KC had gotten herself mixed up with drug dealers or something equally nefarious. Their questions about whether the "family" was in danger kind of points in that direction

I think GA got wise first. I think he has had it up to the gills with KC for a very long time. He confronted her and blatantly accused her of knowing what happened to the baby when LP bailed her out and his assistant had to live with the Anthonys for 10 days. GA was made to leave the house by CA and KC for daring to challenge the princess. But, that was most likely when KC realized her dad couldn't be counted on to drink the KoolAid. That episode probably was the impetus for her ultimate story of molestation, which would completely immobilize GA and make him toe the line. It did the exact opposite.

People lie for different reasons, including psychopathy, habit and sundry personality disorders. In addition, they lie to save their own skin, family and pride. I think GA would have continued lying for KC had she not laid the blame on him. Right or wrong, parents lie for their kids and there is no greater reason than to save their child from death. And think about having to admit that your own child is a murderer, particularly of her child. In terms of grief, guilt and despair, I don't think I've heard of a worse case for parents to experience. The 2 most horrific things I can imagine are the death of your child and/or the knowledge that your child killed someone. The Anthonys have both. If that happened to me , I believe I would kill myself.

 

[pinup]

Picking apart each piece of circumstantial evidence proved to me, once again, that there is no actual evidence. The only reason I believe ICA is guilty is the 31 days, and even then I wonder what really happened to Caylee. Did she drown her? Choke her? What? I can honestly say I don't know, but I do know I've seen no proof that Casey murdered her, let alone with premeditation. So, Yes, I believe the DT did create reasonable doubt.

That's exactly why JB picked apart the evidence, to try and sway jurors in this manner. But it was Vincent Bugliosi, one of the most brilliant prosecutors in American history (who was also later a private defense attorney in his career), who explained circumstantial evidence the best. He compared each piece of evidence as a thread in a rope. Taken apart, the rope has no strength at all. But as you keep adding strand upon strand, the rope becomes unbreakable. That is the way circumstantial evidence works. Putting it all together, you see that each piece of evidence is too much of a coincidence when you take into consideration all of the other "coincidences."

Vince Bugliosi also pointed out that nearly every murder case relies solely on circumstantial evidence. Even DNA is circumstantial. Direct evidence would mean that you had a witness present (extremely rare) or that the suspect confessed that he/she committed the crime, in which case there wouldn't be a need for a trial at all. So every piece of circumstantial evidence is in fact very important.

 

[Curious Me]

No, I don't have any reasonable doubts. I just know some things weren't brought in by the State. Loose ends I hope will be addressed by the State:

Ricardo did say that ICA did get upset with Caylee when she wanted Caylee to go to sleep.

The times that ICA took Caylee to parties (Amy?) it was reported Caylee could sleep through the party. That did not get in, did it?

The duct tape needs to be used at the house and left there, IMO.

 

[mfcmom]

The defense closing argument was contradictory. How could a *advertiser censored* and liar be a good mother. Doesn't make sense. She either was or was not in the car, which way does he want it. Why would he let this woman sit in jail for three years over an accident, unless it was to further himself? How could CA and GA know the body was down the street in November, and still be looking for a living Caylee? They would have screamed from the highest hilltops to the press to "find the killer". NONE of Baez' arguments make any sense. How did the perpetrator manage to get the duct tape on and the hair still be there and the mandible? I am so afraid she will walk. She did this there is NO DOUBT.

 

[marlap]

I really think the duct tape will erase all reasonable doubt that it was premeditated murder.

Then to back that up, they have the 31 days, lying to LE, decomp and cholorform in trunk, hair with deathband in trunk...

I really feel those three pieces of duct tape erase any chance it was an accident and she panicked...

 

[MEM2010]

The defense closing argument was contradictory. How could a *advertiser censored* and liar be a good mother. Doesn't make sense. She either was or was not in the car, which way does he want it. Why would he let this woman sit in jail for three years over an accident, unless it was to further himself? How could CA and GA know the body was down the street in November, and still be looking for a living Caylee? They would have screamed from the highest hilltops to the press to "find the killer". NONE of Baez' arguments make any sense. How did the perpetrator manage to get the duct tape on and the hair still be there and the mandible? I am so afraid she will walk. She did this there is NO DOUBT.

I believe LDB willl hammer it in that beyond a reasonable doubt is not beyond a shadow of a doubt. I believe a reasonable person could see that Caylee died and ultimately ICA is responsible.

 

[ohiogirl]

There is no "If is doesn't fit, you must acquit," as much as JB wants there to be. He was overmatched with the evidence here and he is grasping at straws. The jury was there for all the evidence. They will vote the truth and we all know what the truth is in this case. Her "mother" killed her and no amount of junk science will be able to deter the jury from that fact. jmo and all that jazz

 

[Flossie JMO]

JB is doing a good job but I still know ICA is guilty ...just hope the jury does ..

me too, and for jurors who have not followed the case... I worry

 

[Flossie JMO]

The defense closing argument was contradictory. How could a *advertiser censored* and liar be a good mother. Doesn't make sense. She either was or was not in the car, which way does he want it. Why would he let this woman sit in jail for three years over an accident, unless it was to further himself? How could CA and GA know the body was down the street in November, and still be looking for a living Caylee? They would have screamed from the highest hilltops to the press to "find the killer". NONE of Baez' arguments make any sense. How did the perpetrator manage to get the duct tape on and the hair still be there and the mandible? I am so afraid she will walk. She did this there is NO DOUBT.

I am afraid she will walk as well. I don't have doubt, but worry the jury will

 

[ohiogirl]

I know so many of you love JP, but, imo, he let this trial get away from him the same as J Ito. There is not way around a high profile trial getting HUGE amounts of press. But, he let the DT get away with way too much. All of his ultimatums fell on deaf ears because the DT knew he was too sensitive to the high profile nature of this case.
I am not blaming JP, it is the nature of the beast. He did his best. Of course there will be appeals, he did the best he could to limit that. There is nothing he could have done other than a gag order. Why he didn't when he first got the case, I don't know. That would have best served both sides, imo. No matter what JS did.
HHJP tried to keep a lid on it as best he could, but this case had a life of it's own.