Heart-Shaped Sticker On Tape Over Caylee's Mouth

[Jolynna]

I dont understand either....?...it doesnt prove either way.....KC is sick! who knows why she did what she did....the blanket could have been with Caylee as she was killed...and KC got rid of it with Caylee just wraped her up and threw her in a laundrey bag....that she most likely had in her car...and then put her in a garbage bag and tossed her to the curb.....the whole sticker thing...is just sick....plus the duct tape....really sick!

why the duct tape?...oh...lets see....KC's Pissed ...full of rage....decides Im going to kill you Caylee....wraps duct tape around her mouth and head either to silents her while killing her....or to sufficate her....pre-meditated...

sorry...Im just very upset at all of this...we all have a right to our own ideas

She wrapped the duct tape around Caylee's mouth so no one would hear her screaming while Casey killed her.

That is what gags are for.

A heart was maybe an attempt to calm Caylee down so Casey could get a better grip despite Caylee wriggling.

 

[seagull65]

So, what you are saying is there is abbsolutely no evidence linking the death to anybody other than KC, so you'll guess somebody other than KC?

How can I guess KC when there isn't any proof yet that points to her exclusively? I'm still waiting to hear what's going to be presented at trial that shows it could only be her, exclusively. Regarding there being no evidence linking the death to anybody else--how would there be, who else was investigated? (Beyond an interview or asking for a couple people's phone records or computers? And a walk through of TL's apartment and investigation of his car, but without cadaver dog.) Speaking of which, I need to find the thread about the leaves on the hat, there must be one.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

The report says that the tape was wrapped far enough around the head to be firmly stuck to the hair on both sides and the hair had to be cut to remove it. Hair was still around the skull and the hair held the tape and, likely, vice-versa.

Plus with the hair being so attached that it had to be cut off - now forensic artists can remake the head and with the length of hair - they can positively show exactly how it was in place and if it covered both mouth and nose. Kinda like that 3d hologram thingy you see on bones - but in real life they use clay I think.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I also wonder how duct tape would remain on the skull in position over the mouth after all the soft tissue had sloughed away to the point that the skull is skeletonized. Maybe just stuck enough on the hair to still be draped loosely over the mouth, I guess. Though in the reports released so far, it doesn't actually say the tape went all the way around the head, did it, it just said a piece over the mouth area, but some hair caught in it, right?

My impression after reading the description of the tape, was that it did not wrap entirely around the head.

 

[MOMto5]

Why do we assume the tape wasn't over her nose as well?

Exactly. My granddaughter is two and half and, looking at her little mouth and nose, a piece of duct tape would most definately be wide enough to easily cover both.

 

[Angelfire]

I thought that too when DNA samples were being taken. I laughed today when I read the reports about hair being "pulled" from the scalp and laughed. You nailed my thoughts! Thanks, and sorry if O/T.

LOL I guess it's really true...great minds think alike. Just reading the torture that little child went through and what she could have saw right before she died made me sooo mad that when I read that part of the document, I was like, please God if they need any more, just let me know. I would be so glad to help and they certainly would have enough to test.

 

[s1rebecca]

about 3 inches wide. it could have easily covered her nose and mouth.

 

[whiteangora]

I don't have duct tape handy. How wide is it?
It may cover more of the nose in a tot than it would an adult.

We always have some, just measured and it's 2 inches wide.

 

[LvsAMystry]

My thoughts exactly. The sticker was over DUCT TAPE which was so secure that it had to be cut to free it from Caylee's hair.

That sticker wasn't a symbolic "kiss" placed on her daughter's mouth as a tragic goodbye. This wasn't a panic-stricken body dump in a moment of "OMG what just happened?". This was a conscious decision on KC's part. A deliberate act. A statement.

The more we hear, the more my heart hurts.

I agree and to me the sticker means poor Caylee was prob conscious and aware as she was being ductaped, but poss quiet bc "mommy" was playing a game... lets put stickers on Caylee... isnt this fun...


sick.

 

[CourtsInSession]

what a k$&&%%*(hjhk#(&flkhfA(O&Ufh..

I couldn't have said it better!

This is so beyond nauseating, I just don't want to find out it gets any worse than this.

 

[Rumpole]

How can I guess KC when there isn't any proof yet that points to her exclusively? I'm still waiting to hear what's going to be presented at trial that shows it could only be her, exclusively. Regarding there being no evidence linking the death to anybody else--how would there be, who else was investigated? (Beyond an interview or asking for a couple people's phone records or computers? And a walk through of TL's apartment and investigation of his car, but without cadaver dog.) Speaking of which, I need to find the thread about the leaves on the hat, there must be one.

I see an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating KC?

A lot circumstantial, but that is not unusual. You need to view the gestalt. The body of evidence as a whole.

Do you want LE to pick a few alternatives at random and examine the heck out of them just for the sake of some sort of twisted balance?

I take it you are a defence attorney or at least that way inclined?

 

[tangerinemoon]

We always have some, just measured and it's 2 inches wide.

That's enough to cover both nose and mouth of a child Caylee's age.

eta: sorry, I read that wrong. 3 inches would be more plausible.

Unless she used the 2 in tape and wrapped it a few times around her head.

 

[mydailyopinions]

How can I guess KC when there isn't any proof yet that points to her exclusively? I'm still waiting to hear what's going to be presented at trial that shows it could only be her, exclusively. Regarding there being no evidence linking the death to anybody else--how would there be, who else was investigated? (Beyond an interview or asking for a couple people's phone records or computers? And a walk through of TL's apartment and investigation of his car, but without cadaver dog.) Speaking of which, I need to find the thread about the leaves on the hat, there must be one.

For one, we do know that she is the last one to see her daughter by her own statements, she was also the one who failed to report her daughter missing because she was "going through other resources to try to find her"
Casey's own statements lead detectives in the right direction.

 

[Hot Dogs]

about 3 inches wide. it could have easily covered her nose and mouth.

Duct tape comes in different widths. I just measured my roll and it is 2".

 

[whiteangora]

about 3 inches wide. it could have easily covered her nose and mouth.

It seems to come in a 3" wide also, black duct tape.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MLT9004-1.html

 

[s1rebecca]

it could also be more than one piece over another.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Standard size - what's in most stores is the silver type and is 2 inches wide. You can get it smaller or bigger and in different colors but you have to go to specialty hardware type stores to find it.

 

[scandi]

I think the sticker was on there to convince Caylee not to be afraid of the tape that mommy was going to put on her. One thing is clear: Casey never intended for Caylee to live for very long after she put that tape on her because of the way she wrapped it, she stuck it to her hair. She had no intention of ever removing that tape from around Caylee, there would be no way to do that without scissors. That's the nail in her defense coffin for me.

Hi Mary, I so agree with your last couple of statements. Like Dr Perper said on NG, Caylee died with that tape on her mouth.

Wudge, knowing she died with duct tape on her mouth and around to her hair on each side, would you say that would change your mind about malice of forethought?

Like it has been pointed out here, it only takes one second for and action to become premeditated. If she put the tape on, wrapped it around her head on each side, put the sticker on and then consciously decided she was going to lea*e it in place, knowing Caylee would suffocate, to me that is most possible and would be premeditated. Pro*ing that would be the trick, which is why what Mary said made such sense.


I also heard a comment on Greta about the heart sticker. What they saw was a spot on the duct tape where there had been a heart sticker placed. And they also found a heart sticker at the crime scene, and I interpreted that to mean where her body was dumped.

Dr Baden also said there was a wealth of e*idence on the duct tape.

xox

 

[STEADFAST]

Your post #210 is just the same thing you've repeated several times, about how prosecutors have to prove four things, etc. and then your statement about how the heart and Winne the Pooh are exculpatory, not inculpatory. I don't see anything there about why you believe them to be exculpatory.

I think most of us understand what the prosecution's job is in the courtroom, even if we didn't attend a T14 law school. That's not what we're asking, and yet it's what you keep answering.

Talison, I'm going to give up on finding out why the heart sticker makes it (almost) impossible to prove malice aforthought. As I told students in Writing and Critical Thinking, "If your argument can't be articulated, you don't have one."

 

[seagull65]

How do you explain the decomp and chloroform in the trunk....plus the computer searches?

Let alone her careless attitude after.

To respond to your question: Chloroform can form in different ways, and one of the experts already showed that some car trunks do test positive for chloroform.
It hasn't been proved yet that Casey is the only one who had access to the Pontiac trunk (basically anyone who could take her keys from her purse at any time, for example, while she's working at Fusian, while she's sleeping, while she's partying, while she's on the computer, anytime, could access her trunk, or maybe she left the car unlocked anyway for all I know). Nor has it been shown yet that she was the only one with access to the computer. One of her friends had a joke about using chloroform on women on his Facebook before KC did her computer search on chloroform, so it's very possible she searched on chloroform because of seeing that. Also, another of her friends got on websleuths here and talked about chloroform being used on military detainees when he was serving overseas. She hung around with this person a lot and could have heard those stories. Regarding decomp, the chemical air test did not say it was definitely of human origin. The cadaver dog hits would be more conclusive if the dogs had picked KC's car out blindly from among a group of cars, for example, a blind test with KC's car and also other players' cars...of course the dog hits would mean a lot more if they had found the body when Suburban was searched with the dogs (though it may mean that the body wasn't actually there yet.) So, so far, it's not conclusive, but of course they may present a lot more conclusive stuff at trial. The fact that she either couldn't or wouldn't provide logical information to the police, and never seemed to understand the seriousness and urgency of Caylee being missing, that's the most bizarre thing to me. It's possible she thought Caylee was with someone safe at that time and wouldn't be hurt, or else she just didn't understand the situation. But it's very incriminating of course. In my opinion