Heart-Shaped Sticker On Tape Over Caylee's Mouth

[Wudge]

Not EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE either hard or circumstancial will show PREMEDITATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- you keep harping on every single piece of evidence showing premeditation

SNIP

This is true.

And I do focus on missing evidence, for in any trial, required evidence is the key.

 

[Devon]

I don't know if this is the truth and maybe being held for trial - a pull up was found - could Caylee have been wearing it when she died? Then they would be able to extract urine/feces from the pull up to see if she was drugged or not

I posted this before and it was glossed over

There is no mention as yet in any of the documents of a pull-up or diaper being found at the disposal site.

 

[natsound]

Two different thoughts have occurred to me. Don't know if anyone else has said this (too many pages) but here they:
1. That she put it on so that Caylee would let her put the tape on. (Please, don't let this be the case. I hate to think Caylee was aware or scared.) Tricking her daughter into thinking it wasn't scary, but OK because it had something pretty on there.

snipped

I don't think a simple heart sticker would calm any child's fears if they were getting taped around the mouth. How could Caylee see the sticker anyway?

 

[ThoughtElf]

Ok, who is this responsible party Gracie mentions? I've seen quite a few posts the last couple of days stating that too many of us are jumping to conclusions way too fast. So please humor me. If not Casey then who? I mean really, instead of making digs, state WHO the responsible party is. By god, someone killed that baby. Are you all waiting for that one magical piece of evidence to pop up this close to trial to show Casey didn't do this? The only place I've seen last minute courtroom bombshells have been on Perry Mason.

Also a Hall of Fame contender.

 

[trac]

There is no mention as yet in any of the documents of a pull-up or diaper being found at the disposal site.

Yes there was - there was a flower pull up in the bag - with the clothes and blanket

 

[Wudge]

I'm still waiting for an answer about exactly how "the evidence here works against premeditation." I can see how it might not make a case for premeditation or it might be considered not relevant to premeditation, but I don't see how it could make a case against premeditation. (And not making a case for premeditation is not the same at all as making a case against premeditation, since there's no reason it has to be one or the other.)


SNIP

As regards the heart and Winnie the Pooh working against malice aforethought (and in turn premeditation). I responded in post #210.

 

[natsound]

I have to say, I agree with Wudge. The very first word that popped into my mind when I heard of the heart-shaped sticker was regret. The 22-year old who wrote variations of hers and AL's name on notebook paper stuck a heart sticker on Caylee's duct tape as her way of saying she loved her. I am going to get smacked around for saying that, I know, but it was my gut reaction.

Yes, I thought it bizarre, but KC is bizarre.

I agree with you. It was her act of kindness after killing her daughter. It was a motherly thing to do. It was a way of writing it off, making it OK... just like that Tupac quote she typed on myspace. Can't recall the exact wording.

 

[Talison]

I have to say, I agree with Wudge. The very first word that popped into my mind when I heard of the heart-shaped sticker was regret. The 22-year old who wrote variations of hers and AL's name on notebook paper stuck a heart sticker on Caylee's duct tape as her way of saying she loved her. I am going to get smacked around for saying that, I know, but it was my gut reaction.

Yes, I thought it bizarre, but KC is bizarre.

No smacking from me. I appreciate your explanation. I don't know whether you are right or not, but the idea of the heart sticker as Casey's way of saying that she loved Caylee seems consistent with the behavior of other mothers who have killed their children.

I do have one question, though. If the heart sticker symbolizes love and regret, do you think that possibly indicates a lack of premeditation? I don't think it necessarily does, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.

 

[natsound]

There are also this one, created/modified 6/26/2008 9:08 am and 9:26 am.

So this particular picture, KC put in her photobucket after Caylee was killed? If so, that speaks deafening volumes.

Oops! The pic didn't appear with my post. It's in post #374.

 

[Wudge]

No smacking from me. I appreciate your explanation. I don't know whether you are right or not, but the idea of the heart sticker as Casey's way of saying that she loved Caylee seems consistent with the behavior of other mothers who have killed their children.

I do have one question, though. If the heart sticker symbolizes love and regret, do you think that possibly indicates a lack of premeditation? I don't think it necessarily does, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.

Is it reasonable to think that the heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket would be consistent with an unintended death?

 

[CelticDawn]

IIRC, in a jail visit with someone Casey says something along the line of "that little girl is my heart."

Does anyone else remember this??

I remember that.

I also think that the heart with the duct tape was very symbolic.


First of all, You are my heart,....but you have to be silenced. Caylee was of the very talkative age. They repeat everything....much to the dismay of "parents" like casey...

The other symbolism was "here's your Heart, MOM......"

pure spite.

 

[bessie]

You provided the correct answer when you stated that the heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket do not even indicate premeditation (much less prove), which requires prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt four specific elements: intent (wilful), planning, deliberation and malice aforethought.

The evidence here works against premeditation, not for it. Hence, the heart and Winnie the Pooh represents exculpatory evidence that greatly favors the defense, not inculpatory evidence.

HTH

After I asked the question, I walked away from the computer for awhile. I was so sickened by the revelation of the heart sticker that I couldn't fathom how it could be used to disprove guilt. I took a short walk in the cold and put on my lawyer hat. (No, I'm not a lawyer, but I think like one.)

It could be argued that attaching the sticker shows lack of planning and deliberation. Rather, it's a rash and reckless act. As for malice aforethought, the general public has a hard time accepting that a mother could kill her child. Just look at the number of doubters on this board. Fillicide and infanticide are such unnatural acts, we can't wrap our heads around it. To convince a jury, the prosecutors will attempt to portray a vile selfish woman with deep resentment and hatred for her child. But the sticker shows love, not to mention all the happy photos. The prosecution will have to show that she both loved and hated Caylee, which will confuse the jury. So, I agree. It is a potential obstacle. I don't like it, but I agree.

 

[Devon]

Yes there was - there was a flower pull up in the bag - with the clothes and blanket

Could you tell me which evidence page this is on please?

 

[MarleneM]

I have to say, I agree with Wudge. The very first word that popped into my mind when I heard of the heart-shaped sticker was regret. The 22-year old who wrote variations of hers and AL's name on notebook paper stuck a heart sticker on Caylee's duct tape as her way of saying she loved her. I am going to get smacked around for saying that, I know, but it was my gut reaction.

Yes, I thought it bizarre, but KC is bizarre.

Hm, maybe KC shoulda just stuck a gold star on Caylee's forehead for takin' it like a champ!

Sorry JWG, mad respect, but any reference to KC showing 'compassion' by having the presence of mind to adhere a symbol of love ON TOP of the duct tape sealing her 2 year baby's mouth shut just strikes me as...implausible.

 

[Talison]

As regards the heart and Winnie the Pooh working against malice aforethought (and in turn premeditation). I responded in post #210.

Your post #210 is just the same thing you've repeated several times, about how prosecutors have to prove four things, etc. and then your statement about how the heart and Winne the Pooh are exculpatory, not inculpatory. I don't see anything there about why you believe them to be exculpatory.

I think most of us understand what the prosecution's job is in the courtroom, even if we didn't attend a T14 law school. That's not what we're asking, and yet it's what you keep answering.

 

[Angelfire]

It also states in one of the documents that with all the other evidence taken, hair had been pulled from Casey for testing...right now, I sure wish I had been the one helping to pull the hair out!!!!

 

[panthera]

I remember that.

I also think that the heart with the duct tape was very symbolic.


First of all, You are my heart,....but you have to be silenced. Caylee was of the very talkative age. They repeat everything....much to the dismay of "parents" like casey...

The other symbolism was "here's your Heart, MOM......"

pure spite.

Very insightful and I agree, this could be the symbolism. What I believe the heart on the duct tape does show, though is that Casey definitely does NOT have a heart. MOO :furious:

 

[Wudge]

After I asked the question, I walked away from the computer for awhile. I was so sickened by the revelation of the heart sticker that I couldn't fathom how it could be used to disprove guilt. I took a short walk in the cold and put on my lawyer hat. (No, I'm not a lawyer, but I think like one.)

It could be argued that attaching the sticker shows lack of planning and deliberation. Rather, it's a rash and reckless act. As for malice aforethought, the general public has a hard time accepting that a mother could kill her child. Just look at the number of doubters on this board. Fillicide and infanticide are such unnatural acts, we can't wrap our heads around it. To convince a jury, the prosecutors will attempt to portray a vile selfish woman with deep resentment and hatred for her child. But the sticker shows love, not to mention all the happy photos. The prosecution will have to show that she both loved and hated Caylee, which will confuse the jury. So, I agree. It is a potential obstacle. I don't like it, but I agree.

(salute)

 

[charo]

The duct tape had a heart sticker on it but also a heart sticker was found at the crime scene on the ground- RIGHT? Did I hear this correctly on NG? If thats the case, that would tell me she killed her at the crime scene and had the stickers with her and dropped one- If she killed her at home and placed the sticker on the tape, she'd have no reason to carry any stickers with her-

 

[Devon]

The duct tape had a heart sticker on it but also a heart sticker was found at the crime scene on the ground- RIGHT? Did I hear this correctly on NG? If thats the case, that would tell me she killed her at the crime scene and had the stickers with her and dropped one- If she killed her at home and placed the sticker on the tape, she'd have no reason to carry any stickers with her-

No, the duct tape had some residue on it in the outline of a heart, and a heart sticker was found near the remains.