Heart-Shaped Sticker On Tape Over Caylee's Mouth

[JWG]

Startling images JWG, Could you post a link to her photobucket pics & icons? I know musikman had quite a few, but they won't download or are gone. In the sticky threads, they have been removed, when you click on.

Thanks

Unfortunately, it is a 250MB zip file...I don't have a link.

 

[Rumpole]

Wrapping duct tape around the mouth of a toddler, which any reasonable person would surmise might cause suffocation or choking to death on one's own vomit, is a premeditated act. It requires forethought, with ample opportunity to stop yourself during the act, and time to remove it and seek help. At a minimum it is death during aggravated child abuse.

And yes Wudge I know that the indictment is for 782.04(1)(a)(1) which is the premeditated murder charge. But as you know the jury can be given options of lesser or equal crimes at the time of jury instruction. It is not a coincidence that she is also indicted for aggravated child abuse.

Nothing to say the duct tape was (or wasn't) placed anti? mortem

 

[Themis]

No. The source was Arthur Miller -- Harvard Law Professor version, not the playwright.

Obviously, if evidence is not clear, it can't be "reliable". And if the defense offers a reasonable explanation for an item of evidence, jurors are mandated to hold that evidence for the defense. In other words, they must "yield" that evidence in favor of the defense.

So, apparently what you meant is evidence must be reliable. There are many rules of evidence to help safeguard reliability. If it is admitted and presented to the jury they can rely on it and give it the weight it deserves. As to "unyielding" what you apparently meant was that if the evidence produces two logical and factually supported scenarios, one of which would lead to convict and one of which would not; then what exists is reasonable doubt. So, these are just two terms for reliable evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt. Well, we cleared that up.

 

[tangerinemoon]

What 21 y.o. woman has heart shaped stickers readily available to accompany a corpse before disposal? IMHO, Casey.

 

[Angelonline]

Everyone's interpretations of the sticker are so varied, very interesting takes.

The context that comes to mind for me is:

Casey and Caylee locked in the room after the fight.
Caylee wants the sticker.
Casey wants to play cellphone games with Tony.
Caylee asking/bothering/making Tony want to get off the phone so Casey can be a mom (the horror) ends with duct tape over Caylee's mouth to shut her up and a "here's your f'ing sticker".
That sounds more like the gal I have seen in the jailhouse calls than a symbolic kiss goodbye.

I think Caylee died in the room that night and that Casey didn't come out of the room until George left for work. Her cellphone and internet useage seems to support that.

Impatient, I have read the whole thread and your scenario best fits the Casey that we have seen during this whole nightmarish case. I completely agree with your interpretation.

 

[mom4321]

Everyone's interpretations of the sticker are so varied, very interesting takes.

The context that comes to mind for me is:

Casey and Caylee locked in the room after the fight.
Caylee wants the sticker.
Casey wants to play cellphone games with Tony.
Caylee asking/bothering/making Tony want to get off the phone so Casey can be a mom (the horror) ends with duct tape over Caylee's mouth to shut her up and a "here's your f'ing sticker".
That sounds more like the gal I have seen in the jailhouse calls than a symbolic kiss goodbye.

I think Caylee died in the room that night and that Casey didn't come out of the room until George left for work. Her cellphone and internet useage seems to support that.

Did they take cadaver dogs inside the house ?

 

[Rumpole]

Did they take cadaver dogs inside the house ?

I have asked that. No answer so far.

 

[impatientredhead]

Nothing to say the duct tape was (or wasn't) placed anti? mortem

JB can certainly counter the prosecutions claim by saying his client put the duct tape on her dead daughter as a defense. Not sure that would warm the jury to his client but he can raise the possibility though there is no more evidence that it was placed after she died.

JB can't be planning an accidental death defense, they turned those pleas down, he can't be going to trial with that as the defense.

 

[Devon]

Wrapping duct tape around the mouth of a toddler, which any reasonable person would surmise might cause suffocation or choking to death on one's own vomit, is a premeditated act. It requires forethought, with ample opportunity to stop yourself during the act, and time to remove it and seek help. At a minimum it is death during aggravated child abuse.

And yes Wudge I know that the indictment is for 782.04(1)(a)(1) which is the premeditated murder charge. But as you know the jury can be given options of lesser or equal crimes at the time of jury instruction. It is not a coincidence that she is also indicted for aggravated child abuse.

Putting duct tape on someone's mouth does not cause death. There is no evidence as yet that the tape was also over Caylee's nose (suffocation), or that duct tape and chloroform was used to kill. Or was it duct tape and Zanex, duct tape and child medication, duct tape and drowning in the pool, or something else? Was the duct tape even applied before death? The duct tape alone does not prove deliberate murder, or even aggravated child abuse, nor does it help to establish a cause of death. So which combination scenario will the prosecution choose?

 

[Steely Dan]

ITA. When a sociopath extends a loving gesture it many times comes off weird because they can't relate to that emotion. Which, IMO Casey did with the sticker. In her crippled emotional mind she thought it was a loving gesture, but it merely came off macabre and bizarre.

ITA-very well stated

My original thought being a rookie in this type of sleuthing, is she either did one of two things at this point in time for Caylee to be dead.

The duct tape suggests intentions to harm or make someone to be quiet, possibly kill someone.

The heart on the tape means regret/or a cute way to say I love you at Valentines day by decorating to identify? (sad)

The regret because she didn't mean to kill Caylee or she felt bad because her life was worth more at that point, after her past last months/days with the family and dealing with her actions were strained. And here's Tone. Or "I'm Sorry, Caylee it's all about me episode & I've had enough?" Just thinking aloud.

I do believe if her family had let her talk, she would have. Feels like some ideas of what happened in this case were put in her mouth. Other times, KC seems to be ready to mistruth her way out of it. Can't imagine playing that game with an adult child.

I agree with the regret theory and I think because they played the game with her as a child without consequences then they had to when she became an "adult"

 

[Rumpole]

JB can certainly counter the prosecutions claim by saying his client put the duct tape on her dead daughter as a defense. Not sure that would warm the jury to his client but he can raise the possibility though there is no more evidence that it was placed after she died.

JB can't be planning an accidental death defense, they turned those pleas down, he can't be going to trial with that as the defense.

I see placing tape on post mortem as a callus act if anything. Part of the bagging up process, primarily to stem decomp fluids. The sticker an added gesture by a callus and immature twit!. Useful for prosecution, not defence.

 

[impatientredhead]

Putting duct tape on someone's mouth does not cause death. There is no evidence as yet that the tape was also over Caylee's nose (suffocation), or that duct tape and chloroform was used to kill. Or was it duct tape and Zanex, duct tape and child medication, duct tape and drowning in the pool, or something else? Was the duct tape even applied before death? The duct tape alone does not prove deliberate murder, or even aggravated child abuse, nor does it help to establish a cause of death. So which combination scenario will the prosecution choose?

Putting duct tape on your child is aggravated child abuse, people have been prosecuted for it.

And a toddler could easily die with duct tape over their mouth, nose exposed or not. They panic and start to cry, they can no longer breathe through their mouth or nose, or they vomit and choke.

 

[BaileyandBella]

I don't know about KC killing her in her room.....because of the risk of CA/GA finding Caylee dead.

Then again, KC is an idiot and I am sure didn't think that far ahead.

 

[whiteangora]

I see placing tape on post mortem as a callus act if anything. Part of the bagging up process, primarily to stem decomp fluids. The sticker an added gesture by a callus and immature twit!. Useful for prosecution, not defence.

Thank you, I so agree with what you have said.

 

[Rumpole]

Putting duct tape on your child is aggravated child abuse, people have been prosecuted for it.

And a toddler could easily die with duct tape over their mouth, nose exposed or not. They panic and start to cry, they can no longer breathe through their mouth or nose, or they vomit and choke.

I don't buy duct tape to shut Caylee up? Did KC bind her hands as well?

 

[Rumpole]

I don't know about KC killing her in her room.....because of the risk of CA/GA finding Caylee dead.

Then again, KC is an idiot and I am sure didn't think that far ahead.

Killing in room makes as much/little sense as anywhere else. KC does not seem to have been worried about discovery coming to and from the home, driving around etc.

 

[trac]

Could you tell me which evidence page this is on please?

From WFTV ; pull-up pants with a flower design like the ones found with Caylee's remains

I won't be able to find the page in the document dump until tomorrow - LOST takes precedence tonight - I ACTUALLY have my 20 yr old daughter downstairs with me and I'm not wasting my time on the computer when I can spend time with her

 

[evergreen]

As I've said elsewhere, the heart and Winnie the Pooh work hard against malice aforethought, not for it. That why it's exculpatory instead of inculpatory.

It would be entirely reasonable to think that a touching heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket would be associated with an unintended death.

yes, KC is such a sentimental young woman.

 

[jjgram]

in this modern day time... I heard that sometimes DRUG people
put Drugs on stickers... just a thought !

Duct tape will kill some one !
If you measure a small child's face... from mouth & Nose...
measure the width of the duct tape... It could possibly
cover both the nose and the mouth and cause death !

*** I shutter to think of either one of these being the case.

*** I know that Little Angel Caylee Marie is dead...
The police would not want to frame the WRONG PERSON>...
that would leave the Killer to Kill again !

*** evidence is evidence

*** It is very, very sad evidence !

JMO
jjgram

*** Little Angel Caylee is with her HEAVENLY FATHER !
Away from the woman who did Not REPORT HER MISSING ! ! !

 

[Rumpole]

yes, KC is such a sentimental young woman.

I am sure any old blanket or rag would have done KC just as well. Obviously she used what was to hand. Touching heart my a$$! Stupid teenage gesture with a sticker. As meaningfull as writting your imagined new married name over and over. Just a sign of immaturitry. Hardly a thinking gesture at all.