Heart-Shaped Sticker On Tape Over Caylee's Mouth

[eddeva]

True. But the jury is free to consider all options.

*resp. snipped.
you're quite right, they are, but if the subject of an accident isn't actually put forward by the defence at trial, can they consider it?
i'm asking b/c i'm not sure how the judicial system works in the US. i know that basically it's the same and in my country you can't deliberate things you make up yourself. you have to stay w/ what's been given to you for your consideration.
personally, i think sticking w/ the nanny story is the best proof of insanity for both casey and jose but what if they actually do that? i keep hearing that's the way they're going and i'm sure it'll have a brand new spin when we finally see it, but can a jury in America ignore the evidence presented and make up a story themselves then find someone not guilty based on what would be a complete fiction of their own creation and w/o any evidence of any kind shown at trial, what so ever?
i'm not being argumentative - this has been bothering me for a couple of weeks, wudge.

 

[TSPnc]

As I said, the heart and Winnie the Pooh clearly carries a connotation of care, concern and love, not malice.

Not trying to be stubborn about casey's care and concern for her daughter but...If this is true about her care and concern...then exactly how does the duct tape and trash bag fit in this picture?

 

[impatientredhead]

As I said, the heart and Winnie the Pooh clearly carries a connotation of care, concern and love, not malice.

That is your opinion and interpretation.

Unless to quote you from an earlier thread you have an expert witness that can testify to a dead toddler being dumped in the wood wrapped in a blanket is synomous with care, concern and motherly love? This was not an ornate cermonial burialsite. It was a garbage bag at the local dump area. Anything else is defense spin, in my opinion obviously.

 

[Wudge]

What about "depraved heart murder," Wudge? Callous disregard of human life. If no death resulted it would be called reckless endangerment. If death is the result--second degree murder by Florida law?

Prosecutors are not claiming that Caylee died from a callous disregard for human life. They claim that Casey planned, deliberated and willfully murdered Caylee with malice aforethought.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Not trying to be stubborn about casey's care and concern for her daughter but...If this is true about her care and concern...then exactly how does the duct tape and trash bag fit in this picture?

:clap: and dumped in a snake infested swamp?

 

[ROBLYN]

I don't think Casey 'double bagged' poor Caylee right away. It makes some kind of sense to me that she put her in the laundry bag first, with some actual laundry. Maybe the blanket and some other things were in Caylee's laundry bag in her room.

I don't want to give Casey too much 'thoughtfulness' credit, although a soft laundry bag would be nicer than a plastic garbage bag, but I think she may have done that so if anyone saw her leaving the house with the bag it would just look like she was (maybe taking laundry out to her car). Or it would look like laundry in her trunk if anyone saw it.

I think the second bag may have come from Ton E's. Poor Caylee's remains probably started going 'south' way sooner than Casey realized they would. Wasn't Ton'E suprised to find out there was garbage in her car that had come from his apartment? She may have grabbed a bag of garbage from his place when she grabbed a garbage bag to put the laundry bag in, again so if anyone saw her restling with bags in the trunk one would indeed be real garbage.

*respectfully snipped*

Hi Origrammi,

imo you have the right theory about the trash from Ton'E apartment. She thought that the trash and a dryer sheet could cover the smell, if anyone noticed.(she's fast with an excuse) imo she probably wraped her in the blanket and stuffed her in the laundry bag. 2.6 days later she pulls into the A's garage and "double bags" the poor baby.:furious: These photo's are going to tie her to this horible crime. I PRAY they found those heart stickers.

A little o/t:
I had a sticker book as a kid, loved to collect animals, unicorns, rainbows, all the typical girl stuff. We have two neices and love to buy them all those fun little sticker packs and "art projects". It is making me sick thinking about what happened to Caylee.

 

[Wudge]

Not trying to be stubborn about casey's care and concern for her daughter but...If this is true about her care and concern...then exactly how does the duct tape and trash bag fit in this picture?

We do not know.

 

[JayBee1940]

This is bringing tears to my eyes. I just cannot fathom what sort of a sick individual kills a baby and decorates the body with heart stickers.

Psycopath comes to mind. :furious:

 

[yolorado]

KC indicates malice when she opens her mouth. She has oozed malice ever since Cindy tracked her down on Day 31. Personally, I still cling to the hope and dream that little Caylee's demise was an accident but unless KC HERSELF, from her own mouth, explains the hows and whys of how Caylee ended up double-bagged and thrown away, all the jury will see is that a monster did something unspeakable. At this point, even if she takes the stand and even if it was an accident, she almost certainly won't be believed. There would be have to be a darn good explanation of why things went down this way, and KC is probably not capable of delivering that so that the jury would believe her to be doing anything other than lying, as always. KC's in deep do-do here. With our screwy justice system, even the most guilty can and do walk free...unfortunately. Yet, KC comes across as so heinous, I don't see how the accident theory can possibly save her at this point. I don't see how it has a prayer of being believed.

 

[TSPnc]

We do not know.

YOU are RIGHT depends how the Defense chooses to protray it.....for the defense of casey....

 

[SuziQ]

True. But the jury is free to consider all options.

It's intuitively obvious that the heart and Winnie the Pooh carriy a connotation of care and concern and love, not malice.

Given all the evidence that we knew about before the revelation of the heart and Winnie the Pooh blanket, I don't see how prosecutors can prove that Caylee died from an act that included malice.

I highly suspect this is why prosecutors did not charge Casey with murder two. For murder two specifically focuses on the element of malice. I'm sure prosecutors do not want jurors to focus on that element. So they skipped murder two (not unwise) in their indictment and dropped down to a manslaughter charge.

Wudge, I know I saw half a dozen posts yesterday explaining to you that Casey is charged with Murder One. In Florida the death of a child while commiting child abuse is not manslaughter. Commiting child abuse that leads to death is a premeditated act. Any legally sane person knows that any form of physical child abuse can lead to death.

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

No. Malice is a distinct element that is separate from intent. You can intend to kill someone without malice.

Thanks, Wudge. I see how the blanket and sticker can be argued both ways. They probably won't matter much in the case unless there is physical evidence on them. The defense would have to admit that Casey committed the act that caused Caylee's death in order for them to even argue that the presence of the blanket and sticker were there as a sign of love or concern.

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

KC indicates malice when she opens her mouth. She has oozed malice ever since Cindy tracked her down on Day 31. Personally, I still cling to the hope and dream that little Caylee's demise was an accident but unless KC HERSELF, from her own mouth, explains the hows and whys of how Caylee ended up double-bagged and thrown away, all the jury will see is that a monster did something unspeakable. At this point, even if she takes the stand and even if it was an accident, she almost certainly won't be believed. There would be have to be a darn good explanation of why things went down this way, and KC is probably not capable of delivering that so that the jury would believe to be doing anything other than lying, as always. KC's in deep do-do here. With our screwy justice system, even the most guilty can and do walk free...unfortunately. Yet, KC comes across as so heinous, I don't see how the accident theory can possible save her at this point.

I totally agree!

 

[tapu]

I just read this news.

This woman had to be on drugs.

I can feel the blood rushing in my ears.

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks, Wudge. I see how the blanket and sticker can be argued both ways. They probably won't matter much in the case unless there is physical evidence on them. The defense would have to admit that Casey committed the act that caused Caylee's death in order for them to even argue that the presence of the blanket and sticker were there as a sign of love or concern.

Thank you. Until Casey makes a confession that argument is useless and doesn't apply to the situation Casey is in today. And the defense has given no indication that they are even going down that road.

 

[yolorado]

That is your opinion and interpretation.

Unless to quote you from an earlier thread you have an expert witness that can testify to a dead toddler being dumped in the wood wrapped in a blanket is synomous with care, concern and motherly love? This was not an ornate cermonial burialsite. It was a garbage bag at the local dump area. Anything else is defense spin, in my opinion obviously.

Obviously, and absolutely. I still want there to have been an accident, but, at this point, the defense will have to provide one heck of an explanation to even make that a possibility to the jury. KC's actions, her whole persona, since Day 31 have screamed MURDEROUS MONSTER!

 

[magic-cat]

You know it is possible that Casey had this particular roll of duct tape in her car (recall the one that Amy H came up missing when they were decorating somewhere, I cannot remember where?) and she had stuck the heart sticker on prior to using it on Caylee. Or it could even have been at the house and she had walked by, seen it and had a sticker handy and stuck it on there. BUT for the heart sticker to wind up exactly over Caylee's mouth this theory is stretching the bounds of possibilities. It is possible that Caylee was holding the sticker and placed it on her own mouth after Casey placed the duct tape on-children are notorious for putting scotch tape and stickers on their mouth (at least mine have been). Another possibility is that Casey the sick sociopath thought that a heart sticker would appear to show concern, care and love and so added it as an afterthought either before or after Caylee died. Any fingerprints they were able to obtain from the sticker will be telling, IF they were able to obtain any.

As for the Pooh blanket? I think Caylee was either in possession of that blanket when she was taken from the house that night when the big fight erupted and Casey exited the home with Caylee in tow, OR after she was dead Casey needed something to wrap around her so she would not have to touch her as she "packaged" her for disposal. I in no way shape or form will believe that either of these items were placed with Caylee as an indicator of Casey's love and devotion.

 

[j10477]

CA had to know that blanket was missing.

In my opinion she did going back when she was trying to explain the email about the hairbrush issue she states They did not even want to strip the bed ...This in my opinion is very telling to me that she knew more...

This is my opinion only

 

[Wudge]

Wudge, I know I saw half a dozen posts yesterday explaining to you that Casey is charged with Murder One. In Florida the death of a child while commiting child abuse is not manslaughter. Commiting child abuse that leads to death is a premeditated act. Any legally sane person knows that any form of physical child abuse can lead to death.

The point has been and remains that prosecutors are not claiming that Casey died as a result of aggravated child abuse. Rather, they claim she died from a premediatated murder. So they charged her that way. They did not charge her with felony murder.

Just so you understand, theoretically, once jurors begin their deliberations, they could decide that Caylee died from aggravated child abuse and find Casey guilty on that charge. However, they could not find her guilty of felony-murder, because prosecutors have not charged Casey with felony-murder.

(Jurors are not able to convict on non-existent charges.)

 

[impatientredhead]

In my opinion she did going back when she was trying to explain the email about the hairbrush issue she states They did not even want to strip the bed ...This in my opinion is very telling to me that she knew more...

This is my opinion only

I am curious to see the blanket. Caylee had her own room but slept with Casey in her room. Cindy could have thought the blanket was with Caylee (and would have been correct unfortunately) if it was something that with them on their overnights to the Nanny/Ricardo's bed.