TX - Heidi Broussard, 33 Found Deceased, & Margo Carey, 2 weeks, Found Alive Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #7

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thank you so much! You’re the best. Just contact Tricia and it will be super easy!! Welcome aboard.

It looks like guilty but mentally ill is not an option in TX. So it’s either NGRI or nothing, it appears.

To flesh this out a little more for everyone I looked up those cases (kind of scary how many there are):
  • Winifred Ransom (Fetal abduction - NGRI) that was a 1974 case out of PA. They use the Mc’Naughten rule. Based on the facts of that case I don’t think she’d get away with that now: 31 Dec 1969, Page 4 - The Daily Courier at Newspapers.com
  • Andrea Curry-Demus (Guilty but mentally ill) Another PA case but from 2008. She was sentenced to life. Guilty by mentally ill in PA means that they didn’t meet the burden of showing they were insane at the time of the murder but we mentally ill and this entitled to treatment. BTW, this was the third time this particular woman either tried to kill a pregnant mom or stole a baby: Andrea Curry-Demus Gets Life for Cutting Baby from 18-Year-Old's Womb
  • Darci Pierce (Guilty but mentally ill) 1987 NM case. Man. That case has some similarities to this one possibly.
    The Crime
    On July 23, 1987, brandishing a fake gun, Pierce kidnapped eight-month pregnant Cindy Lyn Ray from the parking lot of a clinic at the Kirkland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Ray was returning to her car after having had a prenatal exam inside the clinic.
    Pierce drove the two to her home where she was set up to perform the Caesarean operation and steal Ray's baby girl, but as she approached the house, she saw that her husband was home. She then drove to a secluded area up in the Manzano Mountains.
    There she strangled Ray with the cord of a fetal monitor which was in Ray's purse. She then dragged her behind bushes and ripped at her abdomen with a car key until she could reach the near-term baby. She bit through the umbilical cord, severing the baby from her semi-conscious mother, who she then left to bleed to death. Read About the First Documented Case of Fetus Theft and Murder
    (Read more at link about her planning, etc. Insane.)
    She was sentenced to life in prison, which in NM is a minimum of 30 years although recent legislation is trying to make it only 30 years and relatives of her victim are horrified by that: Man whose wife was murdered, unborn baby cut out with car keys, fears her killer will be released
  • Effie Goodson (Initially unfit to stand for trial, later was sentenced to life). A 2003 Oklahoma case. She also initially stated her intention to mount an insanity defense and the state had sought the death penalty. But she dropped her defense and state agreed to drop the death penalty in exchange for a plea to two life sentences for two counts of murder. No possibility of parole. The family of the victims agreed. Woman pleads guilty to killing pregnant woman, cutting out fetus
  • Kathy Coy (pled guilty but mentally ill to avoid the death penalty) 2011 KY case. We’ve seen the guilty but mentally ill verdict in another KY case (or maybe TN?) This was a plea deal to LWOP. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article44158425.html
Mental Illness vs. Insanity in Pennsylvania Criminal Defense - Gambone Law

The Insanity Defense Among the States - FindLaw


So it looks like the only one of the ones we’ve seen above that succeeded in a NGRI was from 1974 in PA.

Finally, Texas looks like one of the strictest states when it comes to insanity:

INSANITY AS AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE IN TEXAS
Insanity as an affirmative defense in Texas is not used as widely as the public assumes. In fact, it is used only in rare circumstances. But when it is used, it can be an effective defense for the defendant, but may also come at a price to the defendant.

WHAT IS THE INSANITY DEFENSE?
According to Tex. Code Crim. P. Art. 46C, insanity is a defense. In Texas, at the time of the offense, the defendant must have had a mental disease or mental defect that caused the defendant not to know that his or her conduct was wrong.

The standard for this defense is very strict. In fact, a medical doctor can deem you clinically insane, but legally you can be deemed sane. Further, if a defendant were successful and found not guilty by reason of insanity, the defendant is not free but will be sent to a State mental hospital, the time of which is not to exceed the maximum amount of incarceration a guilty verdict for the offense would have rendered. To determine insanity, the State of Texas employs the M'Naghten Rule but had at one time also employed the Irresistible Impulse Test.
Houston Texas Insanity Defense | Doug Murphy Law Firm, P.C.
(That’s a really good page explaining much more about the insanity defense and how it works and how it doesn’t. Much more at link).

I note that every single one of those above is a womb raider case. So strange. But one of them kidnapped a baby from the hospital earlier before later killing a pregnant mom.

This case is more unique. I don’t think it makes a difference in terms of whether this weirdo can get off via an insanity defense.

But it’s astounding how many wackos are out there wanting to kill for a baby. I guess more now that hospitals have made or harder to steal a baby?
Thanks so much for this extremely helpful overview!

We are seeing Mc’Naughten rule play out in AL and it can be tricky to understand IMO. I was confused about what you said about Mc’Naughten rule vs Irresistible Impulse Test in TX. Does this mean either can be employed or is current practice to use Mc’Naughten rule exclusively in TX?

I seem to remember the other night either you or @BeeGirl were discussing the idea that if premeditation is proven that working an 'NGRI defense' is not possible or difficult for the Defendant. Is this true as an absolute?

Based on the very limited information we have about MF actions regarding HB and Baby Margo there do seem to be any number of possibly premeditated acts involved. So, assuming LE and the DA will find additional examples as the investigation moves forward, is it possible that an 'NGRI defense' won't be possible for HF?

Thanks @gitana1 and @BeeGirl for explaining these complicated but important issues!
 
Last edited:
It has become pretty much impossible to snatch a baby from a Hospital Nursery now. So I guess these women resort to snatching the Mothers :mad: I was recently in our Hospital and reading while on the elevator. I was preoccupied, pushed the wrong button and walked off on the wrong floor. I was met by Security who asked to escort me to whomever I was there to see. I was on the Maternity floor :oops:
 
I think MF was already in significant trouble before she added faux pregnancy to her agenda.

She'd lost her job sometime 2018 for allegedly stealing $5k from her employer (State Jail Felony), was unemployed, and facing a trial with a jail sentence. Those stressors alone could add the lbs and prompt hair loss.

Come May 2019 - she's got to know the theft case not going away because she has a November 5 trial date. I think MF believed being pregnant with a December delivery date would be beneficial to her before a jury.

MF appeared in court with her attorney under the pregnant ruse and her last bit of good luck in her sorry life was that charges were dismissed without a trial. Had she actually been convicted and gone to jail in November she could always say the baby stillborn while she was incarcerated. But with her unexpected freedom, I think she needed to produce a baby and fast. I think her continuing support and shelter depended on it.

MOO

BBM

Having a baby with CG was also a way to reduce the possibility that CG would dump her while she was in prison.
 
It has become pretty much impossible to snatch a baby from a Hospital Nursery now. So I guess these women resort to snatching the Mothers :mad: I was recently in our Hospital and reading while on the elevator. I was preoccupied, pushed the wrong button and walked off on the wrong floor. I was met by Security who asked to escort me to whomever I was there to see. I was on the Maternity floor :oops:

Oh my! Lol
I mentioned upthread how frightening it is to think MF was loose on the maternity ward when Heidi was in the hospital. Moo
 
I think MF was already in significant trouble before she added faux pregnancy to her agenda.

She'd lost her job sometime 2018 for allegedly stealing $5k from her employer (State Jail Felony), was unemployed, and facing a trial with a jail sentence. Those stressors alone could add the lbs and prompt hair loss.

Come May 2019 - she's got to know the theft case not going away because she has a November 5 trial date. I think MF believed being pregnant with a December delivery date would be beneficial to her before a jury.

MF appeared in court with her attorney under the pregnant ruse and her last bit of good luck in her sorry life was that charges were dismissed without a trial. Had she actually been convicted and gone to jail in November she could always say the baby stillborn while she was incarcerated. But with her unexpected freedom, I think she needed to produce a baby and fast. I think her continuing support and shelter depended on it.

MOO
Agree, without the “baby” from the (alleged faux-baby-daddy) landlord-that she is not paying rent to; without CG - MF is homeless and without a job - penniless.

With a “baby” she has got shelter and child support for 18 years....

How much did she want a baby vs how much more did she want a house and a paycheck.

MF might have treated the baby horribly if her scheme worked out.

I was “assuming” MF was desperate for a baby - now I think she was desperate - not to be homeless and penniless - and the baby was a means to that end.
 
Me too! It is so sad at the same time. "Here is a tuna noodle casserole and by the way I think there is something dead in your yard, oh your baby is so cute it looks just like..." and then the visitor turns a pale shade of gray.

Edited: I felt like what I said may have been insensitive, will watch that in the future. sorry
Sometimes one has to throw in some humour just to deal with these cases. I have done it myself.
 
Heidi Broussard's cause of death was ligature strangulation, death ruled a homicide | Daily Mail Online

Quotes from article:

When cops arrived to the home where they found the corpse of missing Austin mom Heidi Broussard, they found her three-week-old child in a baby swing and her best friend Magen Fieramusca claiming the infant was hers. [BBM]

New chilling details in the murder case of Broussard emerged Friday night.

Broussard, a 33-year-old mother from Austin, disappeared on December 12 with her three-week-old daughter Margot. Her body was found Thursday stuffed in the trunk of a car parked at her childhood friend Fieramusca's home in Houston, 126 miles away.

On Friday an autopsy revealed the cause of Broussard's death was ligature strangulation and the manner of death was ruled a homicide, according to the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office.

Fieramusca told investigators that Margot, who was found alive and well, was her child. Neighbors and her former attorney said she appeared to be pregnant recently.

Officials are still waiting for official confirmation of the baby's identity through DNA testing, but believe it is Margot, as per The Statesman.

Magen Rose Fieramusca, who also goes by Maygen or Megan Humprey, was arrested in connection to Broussard's death and kidnapping on Thursday.

-----------------------------

A second person is reportedly in custody but has not yet been named.

Fieramusca was arrested after a tip led police to the Jersey Village Property where Broussard's body was found in the trunk of a car parked there. That car was registered to Fieramusca.

On social media Broussard hailed Fieramusca as her best friend and gushed about their close friendship on Facebook. Fieramusca was reportedly with her at the hospital when she gave birth to baby Margot on November 26.

The two met at church camp when they were just 11 years old, according toKHOU11.

Law enforcement said Fieramusca pretended to be pregnant herself at the same time as Broussard and even set a fake due date for December 1 and had a Target baby registry with a man named Christopher Green - who DailyMail.com can reveal is actually her landlord.

A source now says Fieramusca was a womb-raider who was was secretly plotting to steal the baby throughout Broussard's pregnancy, according to The Statesman.
 
MF's drastic change in appearance might be due to having
Polycystic Ovary Syndrome.

It would explain the weight gain, hair loss, masculine face, mustache, infertility, and crazy behavior.
Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) - Symptoms and causes

If MF does have PCOS, it's possible that her attorney would use that as a defense
as to why she lost her mind and killed her best friend to steal the baby.

imo
 
I was “assuming” MF was desperate for a baby - now I think she was desperate - not to be homeless and penniless - and the baby was a means to that end.

Yes, I think she only wanted the baby for what the baby could do for her. By looking at MF I wonder how long she could have lasted dealing with a crying newborn? Especially alone, in hiding, etc.
What did she plan to do if Margo became ill?

*wanted to mention the breastfeeding phone call. After seeing pic of formula on MF’s stoop, I believe the call took place. MF prob needed to know what kind of formula to use and was questioning Heidi. Jmo
 
Last edited:
I like your point, I think it might end up being primarily driven by keeping her relationship with the man she lived with. He lived in a relatively nice home is a nice area. I don’t know MF’s educational attainment but as far as employment there are so far no reports of her having a job since the check cashing place one where she was fired in 2018 when charged with stealing. She was 33 <modsnip> maybe she felt like she had to keep that man bound to her by any way necessary
So she murdered her best friend? Why not just kidnap a total stranger’s baby then? I personally believe this was related to something extremely personal. She strangled her best friend. There would have to be a lot of built up anger and hate to do that. A deep seeded revenge coupled with jealousy and obsession Would be my guess. IMO Most women who murder other women do so because there always seems to be a man involved. Some kind of love triangle. Interesting to me that MF brought up the fact she was around when HB got with SC 10 years ago. This would also be around the time MF’s marriage ended in divorce. I can’t help but wonder if there was an obsession for SC or some reason that led MF to believe HB’s family should have been hers or would have been hers if only....I think she was out to destroy them both as revenge for something she believes one or both did to her. Hence my “Hand that Rocks the Cradle” vibe. AJMOO
 
My biggest questions are:
Why the front door to the apt wide open?
Why was HB's car unlocked?
Why was her purse left in the car?

Sounds to me like HB went against her will but without a struggle. Maybe she had tried to escape tho, which would account for all of the above.

So many unanswered question. Hopefully, there will be answers soon.
 
I read that she helped Heidi plan her first baby shower back in 2013, and probably started seriously trying to have a baby around that time. The desire to be what Heidi was and had- a wonderful, devoted Mother had started around this time. She may have started infertility treatment-self medicating to save money since infertility treatment is super expensive. She found the info on Reddit or somewhere else and nothing worked, so she tried more hormones and that didn't work. and then of course being crazy she thought more hormones would be better. Her appearance really changed over the last few years. Her hair started falling out, her body was tricked biologically into false pregnancy and storing extra fat plus other changes. I bet she even fantasized there was really a baby and she was pregnant. Over the years this took a toll on her mentally.

She just couldn't get pregnant year after year, every one else on social media had her dream family and then the scheming starts:

I think she started posting about having a baby bed for sale on a site earlier this year or late last year, this may be when the abduction planning started. She was looking for a random mom and from what I hear from Tim, she could talk people into believing almost anything. She was so confident in her ability to con people... She just couldn't get her "stranger" abduction plan to work.

Of course Heidi has this beautiful baby girl and she cracks. She wants nothing more to have what Heidi has. She didn't plan out anything except getting Heidi's baby, didn't even plan out what do with the deceased body.

Edited, sorry still trying to figure out how to post..I will get it eventually :)

Excellent post.
 
I'm not convinced that HB actually drove her car back to her parking space. The scene sounds staged to me - car door open, apt door open with her dog on the landing.

If HB had returned and left the apt door open, her dog would have followed her down the stairs. I think that the fight that the neighbors heard could have been between MF and an accomplice or between MF and SC.

Do we even know the gender of the voices that the neighbors heard around 1 pm?


It might have like Fotis Dulos driving his wife's SUV to the park where she jogged.

In this case, the killer(s) would want it to look like someone kidnapped HB and the baby from her apt complex. HB might have been alive in MF's car trunk and strangled elsewhere, maybe even MF's house.

So as MF sped away w/ HB in the trunk and the baby inside the car, the accomplice drove HB's car back to HB's apt. The fight could have been between the accomplice and SC.

During MF's phone call w/ HB, could have invited HB+ the baby to meet her at a coffee shop and slipped a drug into whatever HB was eating or drinking. MF would volunteer to drop HB and the baby back at the apt complex, but inside she drove back to Houston. HB may not have been in the trunk, but rather sedated inside MF's car.

Investigators sound like their confident that HB returned back to her apt, so I don't know. Maybe the accomplice joined them at the coffee shop and offered to drive HB's car back to her apt since she was woozy from being drugged. MF
drove her car back with the baby. When they all arrived back at the apt, HB was shoved into the trunk or remained knocked out in MF's car while MF and the accomplice staged the scene and got in a fight upstairs and that's what the neighbor's heard.

imo
 
So she murdered her best friend? Why not just kidnap a total stranger’s baby then? I personally believe this was related to something extremely personal. She strangled her best friend. There would have to be a lot of built up anger and hate to do that. A deep seeded revenge coupled with jealousy and obsession Would be my guess. IMO Most women who murder other women do so because there always seems to be a man involved. Some kind of love triangle. Interesting to me that MF brought up the fact she was around when HB got with SC 10 years ago. This would also be around the time MF’s marriage ended in divorce. I can’t help but wonder if there was an obsession for SC or some reason that led MF to believe HB’s family should have been hers or would have been hers if only....I think she was out to destroy them both as revenge for something she believes one or both did to her. Hence my “Hand that Rocks the Cradle” vibe. AJMOO

She may have taken a stranger’s baby, given a chance.
I think she despised Heidi and was highly jealous. Especially if Heidi was the happy, bubbly type.
Maybe she despised SC for taking Heidi from her, in her mind. How lucky for Heidi & SC that MF lived a good distance from them. Imagine being bothered with her on a daily basis. I think she’s t r o u b l e from the get go. Moo
 
Thank you so much! You’re the best. Just contact Tricia and it will be super easy!! Welcome aboard.

RSBM
  • Darci Pierce (Guilty but mentally ill) 1987 NM case. Man. That case has some similarities to this one possibly.
    The Crime
    On July 23, 1987, brandishing a fake gun, Pierce kidnapped eight-month pregnant Cindy Lyn Ray from the parking lot of a clinic at the Kirkland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Ray was returning to her car after having had a prenatal exam inside the clinic.
    Pierce drove the two to her home where she was set up to perform the Caesarean operation and steal Ray's baby girl, but as she approached the house, she saw that her husband was home. She then drove to a secluded area up in the Manzano Mountains.
    There she strangled Ray with the cord of a fetal monitor which was in Ray's purse. She then dragged her behind bushes and ripped at her abdomen with a car key until she could reach the near-term baby. She bit through the umbilical cord, severing the baby from her semi-conscious mother, who she then left to bleed to death. Read About the First Documented Case of Fetus Theft and Murder
    (Read more at link about her planning, etc. Insane.)
    She was sentenced to life in prison, which in NM is a minimum of 30 years although recent legislation is trying to make it only 30 years and relatives of her victim are horrified by that: Man whose wife was murdered, unborn baby cut out with car keys, fears her killer will be released

But it’s astounding how many wackos are out there wanting to kill for a baby. I guess more now that hospitals have made or harder to steal a baby?

A CAR KEY :eek::eek::eek:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
130
Guests online
2,429
Total visitors
2,559

Forum statistics

Threads
602,404
Messages
18,140,161
Members
231,381
Latest member
BadWiring
Back
Top