GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #5

[Kapua]

http://mauinow.com/2016/08/11/testimony-on-suicide-threat-allowed-in-capobianco-murder-trial/

Thanks, MM! Well, I wasn't expecting that!

Capobianco’s friend, Adam Gaines, began his testimony on Wednesday, but at one point was called to testify in a separate hearing without the jury present so that the court could determine if subject matter he had knowledge of, was permissible in court. During the hearing, Gaines testified that, “He (Capobianco) said he had been trying to kill himself, and if I believed he killed Charli, (for me) to come and kill him.”:shocked2:

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I can't imagine how horrifying it was for each of the witnesses who thought of SC as a close friend or for his ex-girlfriends Taylor and Cassie to realize what he'd done. I can't begin to put myself in their shoes.

 

[PeterTosh]

Thanks, MM! Well, I wasn't expecting that!

Capobianco’s friend, Adam Gaines, began his testimony on Wednesday, but at one point was called to testify in a separate hearing without the jury present so that the court could determine if subject matter he had knowledge of, was permissible in court. During the hearing, Gaines testified that, “He (Capobianco) said he had been trying to kill himself, and if I believed he killed Charli, (for me) to come and kill him.”:shocked2:

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I can't imagine how horrifying it was for each of the witnesses who thought of SC as a close friend or for his ex-girlfriends Taylor and Cassie to realize what he'd done. I can't begin to put myself in their shoes.

SC knew everybody was frightened of him and he was terrorizing people with such statements. We...as normal people(?)...don't make so light of killing each other. In fact I believe it's really not wired into our solution process. I don't think SC really hated his Mom. I think he loved her dearly and her abandonment of him caused him rage. People say they hate their parents when they are really just upset about something. I cant think of how to tie in his Mommy issues into Charli's murder...but I am sure it is all connected...somewhere in his wiring.

 

[heartgoesout]

Or drugs. I'm not sure what drugs he was taking but if he was high that night it could have been a factor for the heinousness.

 

[La Louve]

SC knew everybody was frightened of him and he was terrorizing people with such statements. We...as normal people(?)...don't make so light of killing each other. In fact I believe it's really not wired into our solution process. I don't think SC really hated his Mom. I think he loved her dearly and her abandonment of him caused him rage. People say they hate their parents when they are really just upset about something. I cant think of how to tie in his Mommy issues into Charli's murder...but I am sure it is all connected...somewhere in his wiring.

BBM Having a boy child coming in to the world must've stirred up subconscious feelings he's been burying with his narcissism for years. He may have come to see Charli as the representation of the mother he never had, a mother who wasn't going to abandon her child, a mother that was going to do everything to nurture this new life. All the things he never got from his own mother.

I wonder too if a part of his narcissism would not let him put anyone else first in his life, even his own child. He might've felt threatened at some primal level that the baby was going to be getting all the attention.

Apologies for the armchair psychology. I'm finally caught up reading this thread and just want to say thanks beyond the button for all the updates and snips from the news articles. I know some are frustrated for no live stream but you all are doing a magnificent job for those of us who need the readers digest version. Mahalo!

Rest in Peace, Charli and Joshua. Justice is coming.

:rose:

 

[puakenikeni]

BBM Having a boy child coming in to the world must've stirred up subconscious feelings he's been burying with his narcissism for years. He may have come to see Charli as the representation of the mother he never had, a mother who wasn't going to abandon her child, a mother that was going to do everything to nurture this new life. All the things he never got from his own mother.

I wonder too if a part of his narcissism would not let him put anyone else first in his life, even his own child. He might've felt threatened at some primal level that the baby was going to be getting all the attention.

Apologies for the armchair psychology. I'm finally caught up reading this thread and just want to say thanks beyond the button for all the updates and snips from the news articles. I know some are frustrated for no live stream but you all are doing a magnificent job for those of us who need the readers digest version. Mahalo!

Rest in Peace, Charli and Joshua. Justice is coming.

:rose:

Thank you so much, La Louve, for your thoughts. I have been thinking along these lines too. Re putting the baby first, that would simply not happen. Ask not what he can do for the baby; ask what the baby can do for him. ;-)

Re being an "armchair" anything, loved your comment. I personally don't believe that only professionals can understand psychology, just as non-professionals can "sleuth" and have valid insights. There is a value to being trained, but we all have capabilities to understand things without formal training. I see it as a spectrum of understanding, not a division into those who know it all and those who know nothing.

Quote from that link:
This book by Dr. Sam Vakin, Malignant Self-Love, is apparently well-regarded by professionals. I have not read more than snippets. But this page explains what narcissists need.
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq76.html#narcissisticsupply

This is one bit about the mother's part in becoming pathological:

"The narcissist internalises a "bad" object (typically, his mother) in his childhood. He harbors socially forbidden emotions towards this object: hatred, envy, and other forms of aggression. These feelings reinforce the narcissist's self-image as bad and corrupt. Gradually he develops a dysfunctional sense of self-worth. His self-confidence and self-image become unrealistically low and distorted.
In an effort to repress these "bad" feelings, the narcissist also suppresses all emotions. His aggression is channelled to fantasies or to socially legitimate outlets (dangerous sports, gambling, reckless driving, compulsive shopping). The narcissist views the world as a hostile, unstable, unrewarding, unjust, and unpredictable place.

He defends himself by loving a completely controllable object (himself), by projecting to the world an omnipotent and omniscient False Self, and by turning others to functions or to objects so that they pose no emotional risk. This reactive pattern is what we call pathological narcissism.

To counter his demons the narcissist needs the world: its admiration, its adulation, its attention, its applause, even its penalties. The lack of a functioning personality on the inside is balanced by importing Ego functions and boundaries from the outside.

The Primary Narcissistic Supply reaffirms the narcissist's grandiose fantasies, buttresses his False Self and, thus allows him to regulate his fluctuating sense of self-worth. The Narcissistic Supply contains information which pertains to the way the False Self is perceived by others and allows the narcissist to "calibrate" and "fine tune" it. The Narcissistic Supply also serves to define the boundaries of the False Self, to regulate its contents and to substitute for some of the functions normally reserved for a True, functioning, Self."
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So narcissists commit suicide? Not often.
http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissismmyths.html

"Regarding the third myth (that narcissists are prone to suicide, especially in the wake of a life crisis involving a grave narcissistic injury):
Narcissists very rarely commit suicide. They react with suicidal ideation and reactive psychoses to severe stress – but to commit suicide runs against the grain of narcissism.

In response to a life crisis (divorce, public disgrace, imprisonment, accident, bankruptcy, terminal or disfiguring illness) the narcissist is likely to adopt either of two reactions:
1.The narcissist finally refers himself to therapy, realising that something is dangerously wrong with him." ... (didn't happen)

2.The narcissist frantically gropes for alternative Sources of Narcissistic Supply. Narcissists are very creative. If all else fails, they exhibitionistically make use of their own misery. Or they lie, create a fantasy, confabulate, harp on other people's emotions, fake a medical condition, pull a stunt, fall in ideal love, make a provocative move or commit a crime… The narcissist is bound to come up with a surprising angle to extract his narcissistic supply from a begrudging and mean world.

The exposure of the False Self for what it is – false – is a major narcissistic injury. The narcissist is likely to react with severe self-deprecation and self-flagellation even to the point of suicidal ideation. This – on the inside. On the outside, he is likely to appear assertive and confident. This is his way of channelling his life-threatening aggression.
Rather than endure its assault and its frightening outcomes – he redirects his aggression, transforms it and hurls it at others.
What form this conversion assumes is nigh impossible to predict without knowing the narcissist in question intimately. It could be anything from cynical humour, through brutal honesty, verbal abuse, passive aggressive behaviours (frustrating others) and down to actual physical violence."

 

[puakenikeni]

Back to the testimony, Steven didn't appear to make an actual suicide attempt. He reached out to someone who is not a killer and said "kill me then." Yeah, Adam is not going to do that, so Steven is perfectly safe, but does get a large amount of attention out of the stunt. As said above, he may have engaged in suicidal ideation, wallowing in the idea, but that is very different from an attempt.

The reason I posted that long quote is because it explains that narcissists are constantly seeking attention, because they sort of exist only as reflections of what others see. When others shun them, that is the worst. Any kind of attention is better than that. If he can't have respect and admiration, then he will settle for notoriety. We can see Steven shifting into that pattern between March and May, as people begin to think yes, he did it.

The way he behaved makes no rational sense for normal self protection. He should be acting like a good caring person. But he was not able to pull that off, due to lack of empathy. Still it is hard to understand why he would give up and behave so self-destructively in terms of getting himself arrested and before that this big scene with Adam. If you understand that narcissists are addicted to narcissistic supply, and that is what ultimately drives their behavior, it makes more sense. He is pursuing the N supply that is available by frightening people. It is all manipulation to get what he wants.

 

[puakenikeni]

The relevant ones have been deleted. I didn't save everything, I was just a FB friend. You can look at his old FB posts and see if anything interesting comes up but someone definitely cleaned up his account.

As one would expect. There are still odd posts from the 9th and 10th such as Napili mentioned, public posts. I of course cannot see the Friends only posts. The one on the Pennsylvania correctional system, one could certainly wonder if Cass chose it. The truck carrying all the oil drums is still up. The one about cleaning too.

 

[heartgoesout]

Please please don't take this as argumentative, I'm not trying to be, but we really don't know what his relationship with his mother was. We can speculated based on things we've read but at the end of the day we just don't know. He could have had many good years of a good childhood and a good relationship with her. We've read that she struggled with drugs but again we don't know her history either.

We also have not heard from an expert psychologist that he is diagnosed with any personality disorder. Other than the alleged crime we've heard from several people that considered him family, a best friend, coworkers who liked him and at least 2 women that were in love with him.

Having said that, I suspect both play a factor but the way it's being worded is as tho this is all fact and not speculation.
I'm waiting to see if a psychologist does in fact testify. I'm waiting to hear from a witness that they felt he was these things.
: )

 

[Nikki Lisette]

I think we all want to understand why he did this and how. That said, I know some honest-to-goodness true narcissists that are former patients of mines, one with a dual diagnosis and none of them behave like Steven. Not even close. Steven seems to be in a state of self preservation. He effed up, regretted it and had to play the role of "I didn't do it". Why did he kill Charli? Because he's an idiot. He valued his life over that of someone elses. And while this is no where near the same on a grand scale, remember the times you've run a red light. At that moment you were valuing your life over that of someone elses. Justify it as you may, you broke the law and you didn't feel like braking.

No personality disorder is needed to lose all sense of reality and kill someone. He is capable of love and affection, he just didn't give any to Charli. I hate to use this as a copout for his stupidity but the boy liked video games. While playing video games you maim and destroy with one goal; self preservation.

I stayed up late last night watching Loo's testimony again, specifically the video of Charli's remains presented to the jury. Steven had his mouth covered for a good portion and his jaw was clenched. He looked horrified and grimaced. No way that was acting. I saw him draw in a big breath and squeeze his eyes with his hand as if he were reliving the moment and wanted to erase it from his mind. I don't think he'd ever seen his crime in the daylight. He was particularly disturbed by the clumps of red hair. Why?

It's time for him to confess and let her loved ones grieve for her. The testimony is only going to get worst.

 

[heartgoesout]

Very well said.

 

[Mamamerced]

I think we all want to understand why he did this and how. That said, I know some honest-to-goodness true narcissists that are former patients of mines, one with a dual diagnosis and none of them behave like Steven. Not even close. Steven seems to be in a state of self preservation. He effed up, regretted it and had to play the role of "I didn't do it". Why did he kill Charli? Because he's an idiot. He valued his life over that of someone elses. And while this is no where near the same on a grand scale, remember the times you've run a red light. At that moment you were valuing your life over that of someone elses. Justify it as you may, you broke the law and you didn't feel like braking.

No personality disorder is needed to lose all sense of reality and kill someone. He is capable of love and affection, he just didn't give any to Charli. I hate to use this as a copout for his stupidity but the boy liked video games. While playing video games you maim and destroy with one goal; self preservation.

I stayed up late last night watching Loo's testimony again, specifically the video of Charli's remains presented to the jury. Steven had his mouth covered for a good portion and his jaw was clenched. He looked horrified and grimaced. No way that was acting. I saw him draw in a big breath and squeeze his eyes with his hand as if he were reliving the moment and wanted to erase it from his mind. I don't think he'd ever seen his crime in the daylight. He was particularly disturbed by the clumps of red hair. Why?

It's time for him to confess and let her loved ones grieve for her. The testimony is only going to get worst.

Thanks for your perspective on SC. Nikki. Not knowing SC at all, I made the immediate assumption he was acting for the jury when the part about Charli's remains was described in court. To me, at the time, it reeked of artifice. Actually it still does. It takes an extreme level of depravity to do what he did to Charli. He didn't just kill her.....cutting off her fingertips, destroying her face and then removing and defleshing her jawbone, the multiple stabbings in her womb and breast(s), cutting out her (I presume) tongue ot maybe her nipple, possibly both. That speaks to a level of subterranean sickness that trandscends my understanding. I don't know how to categorize the thinking behind those actions, but it certainly isn't within the normal range of most humans I would hope.

 

[Kapua]

I think we all want to understand why he did this and how. That said, I know some honest-to-goodness true narcissists that are former patients of mines, one with a dual diagnosis and none of them behave like Steven. Not even close. Steven seems to be in a state of self preservation. He effed up, regretted it and had to play the role of "I didn't do it". Why did he kill Charli? Because he's an idiot. He valued his life over that of someone elses. And while this is no where near the same on a grand scale, remember the times you've run a red light. At that moment you were valuing your life over that of someone elses. Justify it as you may, you broke the law and you didn't feel like braking.

No personality disorder is needed to lose all sense of reality and kill someone. He is capable of love and affection, he just didn't give any to Charli. I hate to use this as a copout for his stupidity but the boy liked video games. While playing video games you maim and destroy with one goal; self preservation.

I stayed up late last night watching Loo's testimony again, specifically the video of Charli's remains presented to the jury. Steven had his mouth covered for a good portion and his jaw was clenched. He looked horrified and grimaced. No way that was acting. I saw him draw in a big breath and squeeze his eyes with his hand as if he were reliving the moment and wanted to erase it from his mind. I don't think he'd ever seen his crime in the daylight. He was particularly disturbed by the clumps of red hair. Why?

It's time for him to confess and let her loved ones grieve for her. The testimony is only going to get worst.

Excellent analysis, Nikki. But the time for him to confess was before he put Charli's family and friends and his former friends though the ordeal of reliving this horrible crime over again two years later.

 

[Kapua]

http://www.mauinews.com/page/conten...ing-truck-during-search-for-Scott.html?nav=10
By Lila Fujimoto

Witness: Capobianco washing truck during search for Scott
Adam Gaines saw 2 bottles of bleach in front of the vehicle

"We were searching his neighborhood," Gaines said. "He was outside washing his vehicle. I noticed two containers of bleach in front of the vehicle on the driver's side. They looked new."
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Responding to a question by First Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Robert Rivera, Gaines said: "I at no point was searching for anything to prove anything other than what was going on. I was just trying to find any evidence I could of where she was. I didn't really care who had done whatever. And at that point, we didn't know anything bad had happened."
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After Scott had moved out, Gaines said he and his ex-wife lived with Capobianco in a house in the Keokea area of Kula for about a year in 2011 and 2012.

Responding to questions by Apo, Gaines acknowledged there were grow lights at the residence.

"Would you agree with me that your interest in living at that Kula house was to share in the product of the grow lamps that were in that house?" Apo asked.

"I would agree with you that was one of the motivations, yes," Gaines said. "Steven and I were partners."

"So you were a pot dealer?" Apo asked.

"No, I was a pot grower," Gaines said.
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Gaines said he had gone with Scott to one prenatal doctor's visit and there had been a plan for him, his then-wife and Scott to live together.

"Do you believe that the unborn baby that Charli was carrying was your child?" Apo asked.

"Are you kidding me?" Gaines replied.

Apo asked if Gaines believed Capobianco "ought to sit for the rest of his life in a cell."

"It's my opinion that the person responsible for this heinous crime deserves to sit for the rest of his life," Gaines replied.

"And you believe that's Steven Capobianco?" Apo asked.

Gaines said he did.

 

[Kapua]

The court is reviewing more than 120 juror questions for Adam Gaines.

I have washed my car in the driveway quite a few times. I use dish soap if I don't have cleaner formulated for washing cars on hand. Not once have I used bleach. TWO bottles? Hmmm. Very suspicious, IMHO.

:cow:

 

[Mamamerced]

And again, (hate to say it) which "truck" was SC washing?

Apo is a strange one.......asking AG if he thought Joshua was his. Vicarious thrills for Apo?

 

[Nikki Lisette]

Wtf? Who wipes down their car's interior with bleach? it will destroy everything it comes in contact with but duh, I guess that's the point.

Hey guys, I'm not trying to be right or the one with all the answers. I think we all bring something to the table here. Mental illness and pediatric psychiatry is my primary field as a medical professional, so I actually can give some firsthand insight without theorizing.

I sleuth because Charli's body needs to be found. I have faith that the jury will convict Steven Capobianco.

 

[heartgoesout]

Why would Apo ask if Gaines thinks SC should spend the rest of his life in prison? :thinking:

 

[heartgoesout]

Snipped from Nikki "That said, I know some honest-to-goodness true narcissists that are former patients of mines, one with a dual diagnosis and none of them behave like Steven. Not even close."

Can you elaborate on what you mean?

 

[Nikki Lisette]

And again, (hate to say it) which "truck" was SC washing?

Apo is a strange one.......asking AG if he thought Joshua was his. Vicarious thrills for him?

He throws that random sh-t out there to distract. More "can I touch your nipples". Apo might be an undercover freak! I wonder what his username was on Ashley Madison.

 

[Mamamerced]

Wtf? Who wipes down their car's interior with bleach? it will destroy everything it comes in contact with but duh, I guess that's the point.

Hey guys, I'm not trying to be right or the one with all the answers. I think we all bring something to the table here. Mental illness and pediatric psychiatry is my primary field as a medical professional, so I actually can give some firsthand insight without theorizing.

I sleuth because Charli's body needs to be found. I have faith that the jury will convict Steven Capobianco.

I agree with you, Nikki. We are all just trying to figure out this horrible moment in time. It is beyond my understanding how one human being could try to obliterate another in such a depraved, heinous manner.