GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #6

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Has the hoodie size been stated by anyone?

I don't think so, but I think Charli was 5'10" and Steven stated his height as 5'11" or 6' so the two are of a similar height, and it's not uncommon for women to wear men's hoodies.
 
I don't think so, but I think Charli was 5'10" and Steven stated his height as 5'11" or 6' so the two are of a similar height, and it's not uncommon for women to wear men's hoodies.

Right. I was thinking of girth with Charli being pregnant.
I mainly saw stains to the lower arms and cuffs of the hoodie. Protecting her belly, possibly?
The lower arm/cuff stains looked saturated. "Would you agree?"
I think it likely SC wore it during dismemberment even if it was Charli's. But that's an off the top guess.
 
Right. I was thinking of girth with Charli being pregnant.
I mainly saw stains to the lower arms and cuffs of the hoodie. Protecting her belly, possibly?
The lower arm/cuff stains looked saturated. "Would you agree?"
I think it likely SC wore it during dismemberment even if it was Charli's. But that's an off the top guess.

One of the things that annoys me about the trial is that Earls keeps going into the methodology of how he took samples of the stains and sent them off to test....and right when you'd expect the prosecution to ask "And what were the results of the test," they never do! It's driving me crazy, it's so anticlimactic. I'm dying to know more about the stains.

So, I don't think we know what the stains on the clothes are, whether it's blood (which quickly turns brown) or mud, or even something else entirely. The stains on the lower arms of the gray hoodie could be mud stains, and if it was the "jacket" that Steven was referring to Charli wearing that night, then it could mean she was knocked to the ground and landed on her forearms.

Or maybe it could mean that the arms of the hoodie were submerged in the dirty water of the stream/pool.
 
Detective: "What was she wearing that night?"

SC: "I think it was something black. Some form of black dress with very thin straps - but not quite spaghetti straps. And then she had a jacket on over that. But I don't really remember, I wasn't staring at her while we were driving. I tend to keep my eyes on the road even if I'm the passenger."

Detective: "And the bottom? Was she wearing slacks or...?"

SC: "I didn't notice. I think it was either a dress that continued down, or a skirt of some kind."

So I think the gray hoodie jacket found at Nua'ailua with Charli's other clothes may have been the jacket Steven is referencing her wearing that night.
 
If the car was pulled over maybe they let the dog out to run around while they were talking. That way she couldn't protect Charli even if she wanted to.
 
I think the gray hoodie *could* have been worn by Charlie. On the recording played on 7/5, Steven describes what she was wearing fairly accurately and he also mentions that he thinks she wore "a jacket" over the strapped top. If Charli was wearing the zippered hoodie that night, how would it have gotten the stains on the arms?
Interesting idea, Moxie.
I am inclined to a not likely though. There were jeans or pants found with the hoodie, as if that was a discarded set of clothes. And more importantly, Phaedra was asked about those items when interviewed, whether those were Charli's clothes too, and she said no.
None of the family have said she was wearing a jacket that night, that I can recall, only SC said maybe.
 
https://youtu.be/EIqjYZqzPUs?t=1m30s

This Maui Watch video from right after the clothing was found switches from Kim being interviewed about the dogs to Phaedra describing what she found at 1:30.
When asked if the sweatshirt was Charli's, she says no.

She also thinks the tape was duct tape and the rolls were empty, which we know was not quite accurate, but I trust she is right about the clothing. :)
 
If the car was pulled over maybe they let the dog out to run around while they were talking. That way she couldn't protect Charli even if she wanted to.
That could be, yeah. Most likely Nala would be let back in if this is happening near to where they met, in Haiku for example, or Nala wouldn't end up in Nahiku.

I wonder about the scent of blood freaking a dog out. If the stabbing was later, and Charli was hurt but unconscious, I can imagine Nala might get back in the truck and not realize what had happened. But I'm not a dog or a pitbull owner, and I don't know how much intuitive sense might come into play. I do remember that back at the time, Kim described Nala as "dopey" and said Zoe was the keenly sensitive dog who was reacting to Charli's disappearance. And also the testimony at trial that Nala just jumped into a strange truck at Nahiku without suspicion. Doesn't sound like Nala was too high strung, or traumatized.
 
One of the things that annoys me about the trial is that Earls keeps going into the methodology of how he took samples of the stains and sent them off to test....and right when you'd expect the prosecution to ask "And what were the results of the test," they never do! It's driving me crazy, it's so anticlimactic. I'm dying to know more about the stains.

So, I don't think we know what the stains on the clothes are, whether it's blood (which quickly turns brown) or mud, or even something else entirely. The stains on the lower arms of the gray hoodie could be mud stains, and if it was the "jacket" that Steven was referring to Charli wearing that night, then it could mean she was knocked to the ground and landed on her forearms.

Or maybe it could mean that the arms of the hoodie were submerged in the dirty water of the stream/pool.
I get annoyed by this too. I keep expecting to learn something interesting, and I don't.
However, thinking about why that is, I believe it's because the tech witness understands not to get into hearsay, to which Apo will object. All Earls can say is that there were stains and he collected the samples carefully and maintained the chain of evidence. It is all about chain of evidence here; that is what Rivera is establishing. Only the person who ran the tests on the samples can testify as to the results.
Patience, all in good time, and if Apo will shut it a little more, maybe even this year.
 
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I believe this is the last pic taken of Charli, and was from the birthday party. It's the one originally done with the face swap app that was discussed at trial.
I want to bring it up now because this is the face that was treated so badly, and she looks so young and vulnerable. Her pin up photos are very sophisticated, but here she is just natural and clowning around making faces at a birthday party after a long day.
And this photo is something similar to how he saw Charli that night, and did the horrific violence that he did.

To add an observation, you can see that there is a lot of her chest and throat not covered by her somewhat low cut tank top. Given the only evidence they have on where she was stabbed (below the jaw) comes from holes in the clothing, I would say that there might easily have been more wounds to the breast and underarms, and the ones in the tank top may not even have been the worst. The holes in the top were really bad too.

RIP Charli and Joshua. I tear up when I see this pic, seeing a happy woman who has no idea that this is her last night of life. She has no idea of the suffering that is only an hour or two away. It is so sad.
 

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Owners often believe their dog will protect them, but many breeds, including pitbulls, unless trained to attack an intruder, won't.
Here is just one example: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110221175217AAKpSpn
There are likely better examples/articles on the subject but I'm too busy/lazy to research it.
Thanks MM, I looked at the yahoo topic and it was helpful. I am also too "busy/lazy" (love this term) to research it, in part because it would still come down to the specific dog in question.

I looked around for an answer to the above question on the dogs getting over the high seats, and I found a Forerunner lovers forum where dog owners were discussing safety for their dog passengers in "cargo." This was hardly definitive so I won't link it, but most owners said they rode the dogs in the cargo area rather than the back seat, which means two sets of seat backs between the front seat and the dog. Numerous discussions of how dogs get over the seats easily enough if they have the mind to sit in owner's lap, etc..
 
Thank you for the pic Pua. That is the most beautiful pic of Charli I've seen so far.

Charli you are missed and justice is coming so you can sleep in peace. #heartbroken #sipsister #j4cnj
 
Owners often believe their dog will protect them, but many breeds, including pitbulls, unless trained to attack an intruder, won't.
Here is just one example: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110221175217AAKpSpn
There are likely better examples/articles on the subject but I'm too busy/lazy to research it.

I'm not sure how well SC knew Nala. From the police interview, my impression was that he was more familiar with Zoe. I should review that clip.

I'd like to know what Charli's habits were with regard to traveling with her dogs. Did she always have one or both of her dogs with her when she traveled at night? Did SC know that this was her regular routine? Did he expect Nala or Zoe to be with her when they met? It's possible that SC drugged Nala.

Pitbulls are said to be protective. And I agree that owners believe that their dogs will protect them. If I have time this weekend, I will look into it. Until then, I have to assume that 1. SC drugged or pepper-sprayed Nala, or 2. SC let Nala out of the vehicle before he killed Charli IN the vehicle. If Charli's in the front, dead or dying, and he lets Nala out, and later puts her in the back of the 4Runner, maybe it works.

Edited to add: I checked out your link, and the wildly opposite opinions of the posters were almost comical. So who knows? But like I posted a hundred or so posts ago, I don't think most people would take the chance of attacking a woman accompanied by a large dog of any breed. It goes to show you how determined SC was to do the deed that night.
 
Thank you for the pic Pua. That is the most beautiful pic of Charli I've seen so far.

Charli you are missed and justice is coming so you can sleep in peace. #heartbroken #sipsister #j4cnj

I didn't know Charli, but the pictures that I've seen of her and everything that I've read or heard about her tells me that she was a beautiful, spirited, kolohe woman who loved life and lived her short life fully. Clearly, she was loved dearly and will be missed. My heart breaks for her family and friends.
 
I don't think SC has a conscience. How can someone do such a terrible thing and then sit there like nothing is wrong.
 
I know a lot of pitbulls, and despite their reputation of being aggressive, many of them are total sweethearts. Nala may have been really frightened by the intensity of violence and rage, she may not have understood what was happening and may have cowered in fear. Or she may have been let out of the car to stretch her legs and have a pee and not even been present when the murder occurred.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Kapua, I want to thank you for alerting me to the Earls testimony on the masking tape. I had missed that. I did watch Earls, I thought, but obviously I missed a segment.

So I have been thinking about what Dr. Taylor meant in terms of real time when she said the jaw fracture was perimortem. I have done some googling in an attempt to find time frames that tell me whether the fracture had to have been what killed Charli, or that she died almost immediately after, because Taylor didn't quantify what "very near" to time of death means in this case (that I heard).

One of the better things I found is this article at Academia.edu (cached version needs paragraph breaks badly)
Distinguishing Between Antemortem, Perimortem, and Postmortem Trauma
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...rauma+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

I am not a physical science knowledge compatible brain type, so I don't like reading this sort of thing, and it would be great if someone else here is more geeky about it. Anyhow, the best I found was that while perimortem and postmortem are fairly sharply distinguished in bones, the difference between antemortem and perimortem depends on healing processes becoming visible. This says that the healing process begins almost immediately, but it might take a week to show visible signs. And six weeks to become really defined.

So if the pathologist had bruising or internal organs to examine, there are a lot of signs providing evidence, but less so right after a trauma fracture.

Therefore I'm thinking it is a fair working hypothesis that the blunt force trauma occurred that evening before death, but not necessarily in the final five minutes. An hour is not going to show visible changes of healing the trauma in the bone. But the trauma did occur before she died, and was not a case of it happening as her body was handled, because Taylor was definite about the perimortem not postmortem injury on the fractures.

The reason I want to know is whether she could have been struck as an initial attack to incapacitate her, and then transported to where she was stabbed, or whether it had to happen all more or less at once.

Because one theory (that I share) is that she did not go willingly on a long drive, this would require something to neutralize or forestall a protest or refusal. The reason I think this is because Brooke said Charli was freaked out when SC drove her out Hana Highway and would not stop or turn around, and it was not long before. So why would she put herself right back into that situation? It would make more sense that she met him while driving her car herself, and did not volunteer to become a passenger and put herself under his control again. But she might allow him to get in the vehicle for a conversation, at which point he could disable her with a surprise attack.

Haiku is not so remote that it seems like the right location to initiate a planned stabbing. Maybe it could happen to commit an unplanned frenzy, which could happen in the totally wrong place, but not so much a location to plan to murder and get away with it. Paraquat's would be that place, which he already scoped out, but how to get her there without a big struggle? A blitz attack in a parked vehicle is one way.

I'm just having trouble buying into him sweet-talking her into driving him or being driven on that night, although I can't rule it out either. She did have a history of giving into him. But because of Brooke's story about the dry run night that scared her, I want to believe she would have said no.

A hybrid theory might be that he got her to meet him and attempted to get her to agree to the drive, but she refused and he got violent because he had made up his mind that this was the night. He had told people he was going to be unavailable. He didn't wish to postpone and maybe not get another chance. (this is just speculation)
 
Lots of good thoughts about the Nala conundrum. Kapua, I also remember him saying he didn't know Nala that well. The reason he gave is that Zoe was with Charli from birth (Zoe's birth), and this went back to when he and Charli were either together or saw each other more. Nala came to Charli after Steven classified Charli as an ex he did not hang out with.

However, I think SC lied consistently about seeing Charli in recent times, in order to distance himself all the more from their relationship. Charli had told one of the Kaisers that the two would meet up in secret places. Steven never told his friend that, did not share it. No reason for Charli to make it up. So he may have been around Nala more than he admitted, no way to know now.

Zoe was something like a sibling of his dog Chunk. Related if not from the same litter. Someone who knew the history said that, but I can't remember where. Steven had a bond with Zoe.

He thought Nala was too aggressive around other dogs or something like that, that he told Loo in the interview. He thought Nala needed training. I have seen no information that would settle whether Steven would be confident in his ability to work with Nala under these circumstances. It seems like he would be concerned. Pepper spray is a good idea, except would her eyes not be all red and inflamed the next day? I don't know. A sedating treat, maybe. I don't think it is that hard to get Pet valium (similar) for anxious pets. Put a med inside a piece of meat and the dog eats it before it gets the nasty taste.
 
I don't think SC has a conscience. How can someone do such a terrible thing and then sit there like nothing is wrong.
Exactly. Whether he did it or did not, a person with normal feelings would have emotions, show emotions, being shown pieces of someone with whom he once lived, someone who was having his child. He doesn't show stress. He shows interest in some of the things Nardi is looking at. You'd think he was in a seminar studying the case.

The jury has to have noticed his demeanor and I do not think they would draw a conclusion that he lost a woman and child to be that he cared about at all.
 
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