Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #6

[psyquestor]

I am not a lawyer but I did read up on revoking immunity agreements and it was a sore problem legally. SA's attorney is fighting most likely in another court (Supreme court? seach didn't show me SA's name but don't know his attorney's name). Not uncommon from what I've read for the subject to be brought up in agruments in courts & my limited legal advice. (online, ha ha)

Broken immunity aggrements have limited information, imo. Touchy subject.

I'd think for SA to gain any cred, he needs to back his talk. He knows. I've read it about it elsewhere. Give the final true info dude! jmo

FWIW It is up to the Judge whether to accept the final plea deal during sentencing, not the prosecution. This recently happened to a young relative. Was offered 7 months, got 18 months hard time. First offense etc etc. Happens all the time from what I hear.

IMOO - not a professional.

 

[SteveS]

I don't know, I'm on the wrong planet - Holly has been tortured and likely died a horrific death - yet the judge says "simple rape"!

DA is not charged with involvement for either a murder or a kidnapping. So the fact that others have done such crimes isn't relevant to the bond that should be imposed on him.

 

[SteveS]

FWIW It is up to the Judge whether to accept the final plea deal during sentencing, not the prosecution. This recently happened to a young relative. Was offered 7 months, got 18 months hard time. First offense etc etc. Happens all the time from what I hear..

This is not a situation involving issues about a plea deal. It's about the terms and status of an immunity agreement, which is a horse of a different color, even though both are agreements between LE and a possible perp.

 

[Dogface]

DA is not charged with involvement for either a murder or a kidnapping. So the fact that others have done such crimes isn't relevant to the bond that should be imposed on him.

Yeah, but, IMO, since it occurred during a kidnapping and resulted in murder, it should be set higher. Now, that's not based in any facts just simply how I feel about it.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

What exactly is "simple rape" ?!

 

[SteveS]

What exactly is "simple rape" ?!

Technically, there is no such thing as a charge of "simple rape," but it's probably stated that way to distinguish this "rape" accusation from the following that have a bit more specificity within the charge: [these are simplified explanations]
(a) "statutory" rape, which pertains to a minor, or
(b) "aggravated" rape, which would be rape that also includes the elements of a weapon or bodily harm as part of what happened

 

[reedus23]

:seeya: Good idea, DF !

According to the prosecutor, he finished high school and had vocational training ...

This "low IQ" is nothing but bull !

:moo:

I don't disagree with you but I would not take it too lightly. I don't think there's any doubt he'll be found competent to stand trial BUT where the whole IQ issue will be strongly advanced by the defense is in trying to attack the confession as being coerced. Those with a lower IQ are much more susceptible. And again, I'm not talking about the beat them with a night stick type of coercion.

 

[shefner]

If they can't explain that "simple rape" with a definition that meets my satisfaction I might have to slap a judge square across the jaw.

If its a legal term, the person who created needs to be slapped....twice.

 

[SteveS]

If they can't explain that "simple rape" with a definition that meets my satisfaction I might have to slap a judge square across the jaw.

If its a legal term, the person who created needs to be slapped....twice.

As I just said, it is NOT a legal term. Because it's not actually a "term," it's just a descriptive phrase being used by a person or persons - and perhaps it's their personal shorthand for a certain type of charge (as I outlined for you above).

 

[tlcya]

I agree, it is being used in this context to describe a rape without complicating or exacerbating circumstances. It is not a legal term per se, but being used to attempt to describe plain old, no other complicating attached charges rape. It is striking folks as abrupt or offensive but I think it was just this person's attempt to explain a lack of exacerbating circs.

 

[shefner]

As I just said, it is NOT a legal term. Because it's not actually a "term," it's just a descriptive phrase being used by a person or persons - and perhaps it's their personal shorthand for a certain type of charge (as I outlined for you above).

Sorry SteveS...I read your post but I have my own approach. If its a descriptive phrase, someone needs to be enlightened. No idiot should use the term "simple rape." Just say "rape without aggravating factors." The fact the "descriptive phrase" was even used is grounds for a day in sensitivity training with someone who has been "simply raped."

 

[Tugela]

Sorry SteveS...I read your post but I have my own approach. If its a descriptive phrase, someone needs to be enlightened. No idiot should use the term "simple rape." Just say "rape without aggravating factors." The fact the "descriptive phrase" was even used is grounds for a day in sensitivity training with someone who has been "simply raped."

There is "rape" and "aggravated rape". "Simple rape" is rape without additional aggravating circumstances as described by law. Just because you don't like the term does not mean it is not accurate. A court of law is not a place for the sensitive, they deal with facts there and judges are required to be impartial. So they will usually be blunt, cynical and to the point.

You can read the definitions here (the aggravating circumstances are given in the links): https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-61

Rape happens when you have sex with someone against their will, or if the are incapacitated due to mental or physical deficiency, or if they are below a certain age.

Aggravating circumstances are: (a) abduction; (b) burglary; or (c) when bodily harm is inflicted.

Since he was charged with rape and not aggravated rape, we can assume that (a), (b) and/or (c) did not apply, as judged on the evidence they have available to them. That is why it is "simple" rape rather than aggravated rape.

That is not to say that (a), (b) and/or (c) did not happen, rather the prosecution only has evidence that ordinary (as opposed to aggravated) rape happened. Most likely because the evidence they have of the crime that implicated DA was his own statements, and he made no mention of the aggravating circumstances.

 

[shefner]

There is "rape" and "aggravated rape". "Simple rape" is rape without additional aggravating circumstances as described by law. Just because you don't like the term does not mean it is not accurate. A court of law is not a place for the sensitive, they deal with facts there and judges are required to be impartial. So they will usually be blunt, cynical and to the point.

You can read the definitions here (the aggravating circumstances are given in the links): https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-61

Rape happens when you have sex with someone against their will, or if the are incapacitated due to mental or physical deficiency, or if they are below a certain age.

Aggravating circumstances are: (a) abduction; (b) burglary; or (c) when bodily harm is inflicted.

Since he was charged with rape and not aggravated rape, we can assume that (a), (b) and/or (c) did not apply, as judged on the evidence they have available to them. That is why it is "simple" rape rather than aggravated rape.

That is not to say that (a), (b) and/or (c) did not happen, rather the prosecution only has evidence that ordinary (as opposed to aggravated) rape happened. Most likely because the evidence they have of the crime that implicated DA was his own statements, and he made no mention of the aggravating circumstances.

My understanding is that "simple rape" is not a legal term. If it is, please reference. If its not, its inappropriate to use it, in my opinion.
I know all about aggravated rape charges. You do realize I have been a member here almost 8 years, right?

 

[Mercurydime]

Sorry SteveS...I read your post but I have my own approach. If its a descriptive phrase, someone needs to be enlightened. No idiot should use the term "simple rape." Just say "rape without aggravating factors." The fact the "descriptive phrase" was even used is grounds for a day in sensitivity training with someone who has been "simply raped."

The word "simple" is commonly used in courts to describe charges that have no aggravating factors. I personally don't understand why DA's rape charge is simple and not aggravated considering the circumstances; however, I would not want the judge who may end up imposing sentences on the main perps in this case to undergo any "sensitivity training". I'm sure that the family and everyone else in the court understood the meaning of his words.

 

[shefner]

The word "simple" is commonly used in courts to describe charges that have no aggravating factors. I personally don't understand why DA's rape charge is simple and not aggravated considering the circumstances; however, I would not want the judge who may end up imposing sentences on the main perps in this case to undergo any "sensitivity training". I'm sure that the family and everyone else in the court understood the meaning of his words.

Perhaps I have heightened sensitivity to the term. While I understand that "Simple Rape" may distinguish the charge from aggravated rape, why not say "rape without aggravating factors," or just say, "rape."
The judge may not need any sensitivity training related to criminals...but maybe he needs it as it relates to the victims. These judges have been terribly lenient with the A-Train in the past. Otherwise, Holly would be safe today...perhaps preparing to marry or looking forward to a family of her own. Makes me sad and upset.
If I over-speak, that's why.....

 

[Mercurydime]

I understand.

I guess it comes down to the fact that when you give someone a lengthy prison sentence, you essentially throw their life away. Jason Autry had been around the block with the courts so many times that he finally got a 15 year sentence. With ZA being young, I imagine that the judge, the prosecutors, and everyone else wanted to give him every chance possible with rehab, probation, and the like before really destroying his life with hard prison time. Some people are wild and stupid when young, but after enough knocks to the head are able to straighten out, and lead productive lives. Unfortunately, as we may be seeing in this case, there are those with psychopathic tendencies who just never get it.

 

[shefner]

I understand.

I guess it comes down to the fact that when you give someone a lengthy prison sentence, you essentially throw their life away. Jason Autry had been around the block with the courts so many times that he finally got a 15 year sentence. With ZA being young, I imagine that the judge, the prosecutors, and everyone else wanted to give him every chamce possible with rehab, probation, and the like before really destroying his life with hard prison time. Sime people are wild and stupid when young, but after enough knocks to the head are able to straighten out, and lead productive lives. Unfortunately, as we may be seeing in this case, there are those with psychopathic tendencies who just never get it.

True. Of course, when you shoot your own mother, chances are you are heartless and have little chance of becoming a productive citizen.

 

[Mercurydime]

You never know. I have seen people with worse backgrounds make complete turnarounds.

 

[OldSteve]

Sorry SteveS...I read your post but I have my own approach. If its a descriptive phrase, someone needs to be enlightened. No idiot should use the term "simple rape." Just say "rape without aggravating factors." The fact the "descriptive phrase" was even used is grounds for a day in sensitivity training with someone who has been "simply raped."

Agree and then some!
"Simple rape" sounds dismissive and implies IMO that a "simple rape" is not as egregious as rape.
All of which makes no sense considering this was a woman being tortured and defiled before being murdered.

 

[jggordo]

Agree and then some!
"Simple rape" sounds dismissive and implies IMO that a "simple rape" is not as egregious as rape.
All of which makes no sense considering this was a woman being tortured and defiled before being murdered.

As a survivor of rape I can tell you there is no such thing as a "simple" rape. Considering Holly was at a place against her will, how could it be?

In my case the rape took 43 minutes. Each and every minute (at knifepoint) you do not know whether you will live or die. The minutes seem like days. I got through it by watching the clock next to my bed. In my case I survived, Holly did not. This Judge, IMO has to have enough knowledge of the crime to know it was everything but "simple". I believe the justice system has made too many deals and reduced too many charges that contributed to this tragedy. There are many that should be ashamed and exposed to this kind of "simple" Justice.

JMO's