Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #6

[jggordo]

I have seen nothing where Stowe told anyone publicly or even through a spokesperson from his office that he no longer wanted TBI to contribute to the Bobo case. The contents of the meeting in December were made public by TBI and spokespeople from the TBI office. Obviously the TBI was insulted by the allegations made by Stowe. However, if there is no content to Stowe's allegations or concerns then why has discovery STILL not been turned over to defense even at this date? To me there is something about this case that causes the new District Attorney to recuse himself. I do not believe he is afraid or lazy.

I will say that I am ticked that the TBI went to the Bobo family and involved them in a political squabble. One thing I learned about the TN Judicial system in watching the gavel to gavel for the Vanderbilt trial was that attorneys and analysts all agreed that rarely do proceedings go to full trial and most are settled with plea deals. IMO if Zach Adams, in his numerous Aggravated Assault arrests (a 100% crime) had NOT been plead down to simple Assault he would have been locked away and Holly would be alive today.

JMO's

 

[SteveS]

I think we're on the same page, lyric. Like you, we don't need to see the evidence. It would only jeopardize the case but why are we at a standstill and why was Stowe so pissed....enough so to have TBI want to step down??? What?? Never heard of such a thing.

I think Stowe was playing the blame game, to try to deflect attention away from the fact that he showed up in court without having done what the law requires. Again!!

What stood out to me was that he first got reamed by the judge for the lack of discovery. (If there was some sort of legitimate impediment that had prevented the discovery, that would have kept Stowe from getting admonished by the court for his failure in having provided discovery to the defense, I'm sure Stowe would have offered it. He did not offer any excuse, perhaps because he would have been required to offer that excuse under oath.)

But the judge did give him a week to provide a "bill of particulars" for the court (in essence, it's an outline of the case against the ones accused, and would certainly be needed since no one was seeing any evidence). At least, tell them why they're in jail with charges being held over their heads, and having to hire legal defense, that was the concept.

If it was school, the opportunity to provide the bill of particulars would be like a makeup assignment offered by the teacher, since you hadn't done your homework, in an attempt to keep from failing you.

Stowe, of course, promised everyone that he'd get the court that bill of particulars, as required.

And then, when the deadline arrived, Stowe had done nothing (!) on the bill of particulars.

He (imo) staged a meltdown at the TBI as a distraction for his failure to do his own job. The accusations? I think they were bogus, frankly, but I also think we'll find out because I do think that if this case continues, we'll hear him have to give an explanation under oath.

As Raybin noted, Stowe's actions are unusual, to say the least. I'm eager to see what happens, and for the truth to come out.

 

[SteveS]

I will say that I am ticked that the TBI went to the Bobo family and involved them in a political squabble.

I feel exactly the opposite as you do on this. IMO, in the wake of Stowe acting like a spoiled brat and jeopardizing the case by firing the TBI, the TBI was stepping up and acting professionally in regards to the Bobo's. The Bobo's deserved an explanation, and Stowe certainly wasn't going to give it to them; he was clearly more concerned about his own public image than about justice for Holly.

Public officials are there to serve the public. Stowe doesn't get it. The TBI apparently does.

 

[Tugela]

Do we honestly believe they have no evidence? If that's the case, then wouldn't that make a DA "flip out"? Why are these thugs in prison if there is no evidence? Again, playing catch up and my post isn't directed at you but I'm trying to make sense out of this nonsense. Something just isn't sitting right with me.

They are likely in prison due to the allegations made by the two principal witnesses against them, but not much else. If the two witnesses subsequently turned out to be impeachable under those circumstances then there would not be enough evidence to sustain a case in trial. That is probably what the fight was about. My guess is that Stowe was told that corroborating evidence was "being analysed" and was "in the works" and therefore he could not see it right now but should continue with the prosecution, but he didn't believe them. Particularly since multiple discovery deadlines were being missed as a result. He couldn't keep on going to the judge empty handed, at some point it would have ended the case. That is why he blew up IMO, he was frustrated at being stonewalled by the investigators when he needed the information they had collected.

 

[Tugela]

I have seen nothing where Stowe told anyone publicly or even through a spokesperson from his office that he no longer wanted TBI to contribute to the Bobo case. The contents of the meeting in December were made public by TBI and spokespeople from the TBI office. Obviously the TBI was insulted by the allegations made by Stowe. However, if there is no content to Stowe's allegations or concerns then why has discovery STILL not been turned over to defense even at this date? To me there is something about this case that causes the new District Attorney to recuse himself. I do not believe he is afraid or lazy.

I will say that I am ticked that the TBI went to the Bobo family and involved them in a political squabble. One thing I learned about the TN Judicial system in watching the gavel to gavel for the Vanderbilt trial was that attorneys and analysts all agreed that rarely do proceedings go to full trial and most are settled with plea deals. IMO if Zach Adams, in his numerous Aggravated Assault arrests (a 100% crime) had NOT been plead down to simple Assault he would have been locked away and Holly would be alive today.

JMO's

If the TBI did go to the Bobo family with this, they had no business doing so. That is completely unprofessional. The only role the TBI has in all of this is collecting evidence. The prosecutor is the one has jurisdiction over what is done with that evidence. If they did go to the Bobos, then IMO it is further evidence that they are overstepping their bounds in the investigation, something which is disturbing.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

If the TBI did go to the Bobo family with this, they had no business doing so. That is completely unprofessional. The only role the TBI has in all of this is collecting evidence. The prosecutor is the one has jurisdiction over what is done with that evidence. If they did go to the Bobos, then IMO it is further evidence that they are overstepping their bounds in the investigation, something which is disturbing.

:seeya: Hi Tugela,

BBM: YES, something is definitely disturbing about them contacting the Bobo's.

I am wondering now IF they wanted to get to the Bobo's before Stowe went to the Bobo's? In other words, damage control by the TBI.

And as you stated, the prosecutor decides what is done with the evidence collected.

But IMO, it sounds as though the TBI wants to control WHAT evidence will be presented in court, as well as the TBI wants to control everything in this case.

:moo:

 

[katydid23]

I have this horrible, foreboding---this awful feeling, that all these guys are going to be released and walk free from this circus. :trainwreck:

 

[~n/t~]

Just reiterating that I haven't caught up on the thread yet. Do you think Stowe didn't do what he was supposed to (show up with discovery) because he didn't get it from TBI?

 

[~n/t~]

How nice of them to finally give a darn when for years they didn't do anything for the Bobos. JMO!

 

[~n/t~]

Ugh! Still getting used to this new board! My question and comment were addressed to Steve.

 

[tlcya]

I think the discovery shows that there was some form of possibly exculpatory evidence that the Pearcy boys did not and never had a video as claimed showing Holly being raped and tortured. I believe a video of same MAY have existed. I believe that someone with a bone to pick decided to implicate the Pearcys and that the case against the A-train is based in part around the belief that TBI would find the video or substantiate it's existence by arresting and charging those Pearcys. After all this time the Pearcy boys video things has turned up a huge goose egg. Despite much pressure being brought to bear.

I think I have come to believe that the TBI has played fast and loose with the evidence, overstating what they had and the previous DAs were part of this big play that did not pan out. I have come to believe that Stowe was left holding a proverbial bag of poo and he is not willing to play the same games as the previous "team" of TBI/DAs.

 

[Hatfield]

I think the discovery shows that there was some form of possibly exculpatory evidence that the Pearcy boys did not and never had a video as claimed showing Holly being raped and tortured. I believe a video of same MAY have existed. I believe that someone with a bone to pick decided to implicate the Pearcys and that the case against the A-train is based in part around the belief that TBI would find the video or substantiate it's existence by arresting and charging those Pearcys. After all this time the Pearcy boys video things has turned up a huge goose egg. Despite much pressure being brought to bear.

I think I have come to believe that the TBI has played fast and loose with the evidence, overstating what they had and the previous DAs were part of this big play that did not pan out. I have come to believe that Stowe was left holding a proverbial bag of poo and he is not willing to play the same games as the previous "team" of TBI/DAs.

Totally Agree with everything.

 

[Hatfield]

I have seen nothing where Stowe told anyone publicly or even through a spokesperson from his office that he no longer wanted TBI to contribute to the Bobo case. The contents of the meeting in December were made public by TBI and spokespeople from the TBI office. Obviously the TBI was insulted by the allegations made by Stowe. However, if there is no content to Stowe's allegations or concerns then why has discovery STILL not been turned over to defense even at this date? To me there is something about this case that causes the new District Attorney to recuse himself. I do not believe he is afraid or lazy.

I will say that I am ticked that the TBI went to the Bobo family and involved them in a political squabble. One thing I learned about the TN Judicial system in watching the gavel to gavel for the Vanderbilt trial was that attorneys and analysts all agreed that rarely do proceedings go to full trial and most are settled with plea deals. IMO if Zach Adams, in his numerous Aggravated Assault arrests (a 100% crime) had NOT been plead down to simple Assault he would have been locked away and Holly would be alive today.

JMO's

Re BBM
This is interesting to me and I think it lends to that their jurisdiction does not have the proper skills to go through jury trials. This makes a lot of sense and would definitely explain why Zach never seemed to be able to be prosecuted with a tough sentence.
It sounds to me like plea deals was what he was always offered.

IMO they dont have the skilled people to handle jury trials and they have relied on plea deals as a crutch to work through their cases. All that does is let criminals get lesser time and lesser charges than what they really deserve and it shows laziness and lack of good lawyers to work their cases.

IMO this is a huge problem and this explains an awful lot to me.

Also, regarding Stowe. I dont blame him at all. He cant make lemonade out of water. If the "vast truckloads and boxes of evidence" amounted to a hill of beans, then he could not be expected to be able to do anything with that. He came on board way too late and people were promising him they had the goods. When he analyzed what they had given him, its no wonder he freaked out if it was a big goose egg. All while the judge was breathing down his neck to produce something.

Again, you cant produce lemonade from water.

 

[SteveS]

Just reiterating that I haven't caught up on the thread yet. Do you think Stowe didn't do what he was supposed to (show up with discovery) because he didn't get it from TBI?

I do not, and that's based on 3 observations:
1 the "sharing of evidence" that he actually did have, would not have been dependent on anyone ...yet, he provided nothing at all
2 if there had been a delay in additional evidence he did not have, due to delay in TBI testing, he could have offered an explanation to the court (and unquestionably would have done so, to keep from getting admonished and perhaps penalized by the judge) ...but, there was no such explanation given or legitimate delay requested
3 the "bill of particulars" would not have required anything from TBI, as it was simply an outline of the generalities and evidence in the case that Stowe had been crowing about for months ...but, again, he provided absolutely nothing to the court when given that "out" for his prior "failures to disclose"

 

[SteveS]

.... they have relied on plea deals as a crutch to work through their cases. All that does is let criminals get lesser time and lesser charges than what they really deserve ....

Actually, that's the legal system everywhere in this country, at least afaik. Cases are prioritized, and pleas are offered, to try to get through the mountain of work. In many instances, that may mean the sentences imposed are lighter, but it also means time is freed up to work on something else, and is based on the concept that something is better than nothing. If all charges in all cases were forced to go to a full trial, tons of them would simply be dismissed for lack of manpower to investigate and prosecute.

 

[tlcya]

What if what he discloses shows that men were wrongfully charged, while probable cause may have existed to justify arrests and further investigation, nothing else materialized EXCEPT for exculpatory evidence that would assist the defense? What if pressure were being brought to bear on him to release all BUT that exculpatory evidence in order to keep the parties in jail without due process for an undisclosed and unknown time period while TBI continues to try to build the bones of a case that should already have been built prior to Stowe's involvement? I might take my ball and go home in that circumstance rather than release any discovery in dibs and dabs while full well knowing what was really going on here. Just speculating.

 

[Tugela]

Just reiterating that I haven't caught up on the thread yet. Do you think Stowe didn't do what he was supposed to (show up with discovery) because he didn't get it from TBI?

Based on the latest allegations in the media I think that is possibly pretty much what happened. The previous DA was supposed to turn over discovery and should have been gathering it together for that purpose. My guess is that the TBI was not supplying the evidence gathered in the investigation even to the prosecutors, so consequently they were not able to supply it to defense. Obviously the DA would have been putting on a public show of bravado, lawyers do that right until the second shoe drops. Behind the scenes they were probably pleading to get it from LE but were getting stonewalled.

The previous DA would not have publically been able to do anything about it at the time for political reasons because he was fighting a re-election battle, and if he got into a brawl with LE to release the investigation documents it would have been portrayed by his opponent as incompetent which in turn could have cost him the election. So he couldn't really say anything. In the end he lost the election anyway and Stowe inherited the problem.

Putting on my cynical hat for a moment, one might ask why they would all do this? Discovery has to be made, all of them know this, and it would (should) have been gathered up by the previous prosecutor, so all that needed to be done was to hand it over (if it existed in the first place). Certainly Stowe would have been aware of the importance of doing that, since he was previously a defense lawyer. There is no reason not to, and failing to do so would endanger the case, so why did they not hand anything over? I think the simplest answer is that they didn't hand discovery over because they didn't have it - the TBI still has it and the prosecutors office only has scraps, essentially what they got the indictment on. This brings the conspiracy theory into play: if indeed LE messed up and jumped the gun, it would be very embarrassing due to the high profile nature of the case. If they handed discovery over, the deficiencies would immediately be apparent and public humiliation for LE would ensue, probably accompanied by firings at senior levels. So what to do? But, IF LE stonewalled the prosecution and did not hand the results of the investigation over, the prosecution would not be able to submit discovery to the defense and the case would be dismissed eventually. If the case was dismissed in this way, the results of the investigation would remain secret and their messing things up would stay covered up. It would only become public knowledge if discovery is made. The big upside of all of this for LE is that the prosecutor is the one who would take the blame under this scenario, not them. All they would need to do would be to keep the prosecution from getting the investigation results until the case got dismissed.

I think what SteveS is suggesting (that Stowe is over his head and doesn't know what he is doing) is simplistic. I think Stowe knows very well what he is doing - but he can't turn over discovery because that information has probably been withheld from him as well. He can't give what he doesn't have. And if he goes to a judge to get an order to force LE to hand over, it will be the end of the case anyway. That would be a big dilemma and that is IMO what the big spat is about. That scenario would be consistent with the latest reports we are receiving from the media.

 

[SteveS]

I think what SteveS is suggesting (that Stowe is over his head and doesn't know what he is doing) is simplistic.

TOO simplistic? Maybe. Maybe not. I readily admit I'm an Occam's razor kinda guy, a KISS guy - but that's because I have found that real life is NOT as complex as we tend to imagine. In other words, people do tend to imagine conspiracies and involved explanations when things like "laziness" and "incompetence" are in play, because the obvious answers seem way too simple. We'd really rather not believe that things like "laziness" and "incompetence" exist in our public officials, even though we see them all day long everywhere else in society.

In this case, it makes us feel much better if we tell ourselves that Stowe was valiantly trying to rescue a failed case, by his inaction, rather than simply accepting that he was either lazy, clueless, or both.

As for whether we'll never know, I'd wager quite a bit that this case won't vanish in a puff of smoke where no one sees enough to understand what happened. Instead, as I said before, I'm with Raybin in thinking that we may end up with Stowe on the stand, under oath, forced to explain himself and his actions.

If so, that should prove highly illuminating ...and then, when we find out the truth, there will be sworn evidence to prove it, if it exists, rather than just assumptions of mysterious wrongdoing and complicity and stuff.

Let's see what happens.

 

[SteveS]

All that having been said, I have believed all along that the Pearcy video stuff was a total stretch, from day one.

But I have to add, while that may have been a significant component of the evidence, I still don't think it justifies Stowe's failure to perform. Tugela, when you say "Certainly Stowe would have been aware of the importance of doing that, since he was previously a defense lawyer", knowing and doing are two different things. Both defense attorney and DA are lawyering jobs, but they are night and day in focus, scope, and responsibility, and in light of what's occurred, I certainly don't see any evidence that Stowe is up to the task.

 

[pearl]

I was only able to visit WS sporadically during the month of January due to the premature birth of my grandson. I'm trying to catch up on the three cases I follow. I haven't read every post yet so I'm wanting to ask a couple of questions. Has the prosecution given the defense any evidence, etc at all? Or, is the defense claiming that no evidence linking the accused people have been given to them? I don't think any defense attorney would claim that the prosecution has turned over evidence linking his/her client to a crime. IMO, whatever may be wrong with this prosecution was in place before Stowe stepped into it. He does have the duty to be diligent in that he should oversee that court requirements such as the bill of particulars are met. I'm wondering if he inherited a veritable mess.