Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #6

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I was only able to visit WS sporadically during the month of January due to the premature birth of my grandson. I'm trying to catch up on the three cases I follow. I haven't read every post yet so I'm wanting to ask a couple of questions. Has the prosecution given the defense any evidence, etc at all? Or, is the defense claiming that no evidence linking the accused people have been given to them? I don't think any defense attorney would claim that the prosecution has turned over evidence linking his/her client to a crime. IMO, whatever may be wrong with this prosecution was in place before Stowe stepped into it. He does have the duty to be diligent in that he should oversee that court requirements such as the bill of particulars are met. I'm wondering if he inherited a veritable mess.

Regarding your last sentence, it sure sounds like it to me after reading this article. A mess indeed and so discouraging. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/2...s-it-has-finished-evidence-analysis-in-holly/
 
Thanks for good thoughts folks. I know nothing of Stowe prior to this case. I can tell that some have pretty strong misgivings about TBI and others have strong misgivings about Stowe. For the moment, my misgivings lie with the TBI and their handling of this case. But I am open to all possibilities so I appreciate hearing thoughts on Stowe by others who are more familiar with him.
 
So, after reading what everyone had to say, I thought I would just kind of look around.

First let me say this, DA Amy Weirich has had her own bit of problems within her department. BTW this involves 2 separate cases.

He wants a new trial, saying Weirich didn’t give his attorneys, Walter and Jay Bailey, pertinent information in the case that could have changed the outcome, including several witness statements.

“We turned over everything we were required under the law to turn over,” Weirich said outside of court.

Weirich admitted actual statements in some cases were not handed over, but says supplements were available to the attorneys had they made efforts to get them.

She also denied labeling an envelope ‘Do not show to the defense.’

http://www.commercialappeal.com/new...-prosecutors-of-withholding-evidence_34467425

http://wreg.com/2014/11/25/district-attorney-amy-weirich-testifies-on-how-she-handled-murder-case/

http://www.prosecutorialaccountabil...om-hendersons-illegal-and-unethical-behavior/

Just a tad bit more On Weirich..the article title says Weirich asks to be removed, but unless her whole office is removed from yet another case of questionable ethics, she would still over see the case and the defense does not want that at all. She also got her hand slapped from the State SC.

The state Supreme Court fell short of declaring there was insufficient evidence to support a conviction, but scolded Weirich for two blunders she made while acting as lead prosecutor on the case.

According to the court’s ruling, Weirich made an inappropriate comment to the jury during her closing argument and she failed to turn over a witness statement that could have strengthened the defense’s case.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/new...o-be-removed-from-noura-jackson-case_85135370


Interesting Read....and so in looking at DA Weirich, I ran across this article about the TBI:

Memphis legislator ready to unveil secrecy of TBI, DCS


The law lets the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation keep secret any evidence or witness information in a criminal case forever, and despite several pushes, the law was never changed. But this year may be different.

We may never know what TBI agents found when they investigated a number of controversial cases in Memphis because the agency’s investigative files are secret, protected by law until there’s a change.

In Memphis, there are questions about what TBI uncovered when it investigated the death of a teen shot by an off-duty Memphis cop, as well as questions about the lack of information when an assistant district attorney was beaten inside her Midtown home.

Her boss, District Attorney Amy Weirich, decided not to prosecute in both cases after reviewing secret TBI reports.

“I think that has to change. I think people need to have the total opposite idea that when the TBI comes in, OK, now we’re going to get the straight of it. Now, we’re going to know what really happened,” DeBerry said.

http://wreg.com/2014/11/07/memphis-legislator-ready-to-unveil-secrecy-of-tbi-dcs/

http://wreg.com/2013/11/21/secrecy-of-tbi-files-keeps-public-in-dark-on-high-profile-cases/ (very interesting read as well )
The TBI is a public agency yet keeps more secrets than any other division in the state.
“TBI’s investigative reports are confidential and can’t be released without a subpoena or court order so we have to follow that law. It’s as simple as that,”
The On Your Side Investigators found even when there is a trial, and TBI records are used as evidence, the files can still be kept secret.
Knoxville lawyer, Herbert Moncier, is challenging that law.
Moncier said, “It’s your government, it’s my government. It doesn’t belong to some people in Nashville. It doesn’t belong to the people in the TBI that want to keep things secret. It’s our government.”

So I'm gonna do a little more digging around, but what I find really interesting is that little law, where the TBI, doesn't have to tell anyone diddly squat.
 
WTF? How can this law exist that basically gives TBI carte blanche to pull a J Edgar on any citizen they want?

Well this is very concerning to me and further affects my feeling that the problems in securing Justice for Holly lie squarely at the foot of this agency.

Seriously?
 
WTF? How can this law exist that basically gives TBI carte blanche to pull a J Edgar on any citizen they want?

Well this is very concerning to me and further affects my feeling that the problems in securing Justice for Holly lie squarely at the foot of this agency.

Seriously?

Oh yeah, I can't read it, cuz it's paid but in the Knoxville Newspaper they are having a fit over Christian/Newsom case where the Judge was caught "buying" drugs, and their parents wanted to read the TBI files. Well out of 2,000 pages, the press I suppose will be able to see 150 pages. I had posted the court opinion in their thread. I don't think I can post what a knoxville blogger had to say.
 
Thank you Lyric, for some breadcrumbs to follow regarding the legal secrecy under which TBI has been allowed to act for years.
 
Thank you Lyric, for some breadcrumbs to follow regarding the legal secrecy under which TBI has been allowed to act for years.

I had no idea and I live in Tennessee. I've learned about all kinds of things following Holly's case. About Pearls and Murders and more Murders and more missing People, what seems like cover ups and and it all kind of interweaves all that area, different counties and such but my goodness.
It's one HOT Mess!
I for one will try and see what my state government decides to do, but it all makes me question just what is going on In Holly's Case.
 
Thanks for good thoughts folks. I know nothing of Stowe prior to this case. I can tell that some have pretty strong misgivings about TBI and others have strong misgivings about Stowe. For the moment, my misgivings lie with the TBI and their handling of this case. But I am open to all possibilities so I appreciate hearing thoughts on Stowe by others who are more familiar with him.


:seeya: You stated exactly what I am thinking, but was not able to state it so well as you did above.

Thanks !
 
Do we honestly believe they have no evidence? If that's the case, then wouldn't that make a DA "flip out"? Why are these thugs in prison if there is no evidence? Again, playing catch up and my post isn't directed at you but I'm trying to make sense out of this nonsense. Something just isn't sitting right with me.

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you! Haven't been on in a few days. What happened was, they arrested these guys, on the basis of witness statements and no physical evidence. Whether they have physical evidence at this point has yet to be seen, but someone else pointed out earlier in the thread that they put too much emphasis on the witness statements, which is what I was trying to say. I think they just got sucked in to believing that all the witness statements were good evidence and arrested the guys on that basis, then the physical evidence is either non-existent or doesn't match the witness statements so far. That's why they're stalling, that's why they're refusing to provide a bill of particulars. I'll go into the case below about what I believe happened in this case. But it's long, so you don't have to read it if you don't want. :)


The case:

From what I've been told, the initial tip that led them to Zach Adams was an inmate looking for a deal. Anyone who is getting something out of it is not a reliable witness. He may have just been passing along a rumor he heard. Now, when it comes to Zach Adams, I have no major opinions on the guy. He sounds like a dangerous individual with a lot of issues. He was wearing camo on the day she was kidnapped (as was her kidnapper) and he made some bizarre statement about looking for someone on his myspace. Which again, a little suspicious. But as to whether he's involved in this particular crime, I have no idea. There are lots of dangerous weirdos in the world who wear camo. But you have to be careful with witness statements, particularly the type they were relying on, and you have to be careful assuming that someone is guilty because they have a history of violence or are weird. After all, Charles Manson isn't guilty of every murder in California. There are other murderers in the world.

So they begin their investigation by interrogating his brother Dylan. Now, Dylan himself was facing some unrelated charges at the time and he is also, to some degree, mentally handicapped. He is apparently alleging misconduct on the part of the investigators now. Interrogating him for an extended amount of time without food or water and finally he cracked. The US has a long history of false confessions under these same conditions. They may have threatened him then offered him immunity, we don't really know much about that encounter. But at some point, many months later, they changed their minds about the whole thing and charged him. That makes me think that either what he told them didn't pan out or he stopped cooperating. The time frame really sells it. If they wanted to charge him they could've done it months earlier.

Then they arrest Shayne Austin for the murder, interrogate him, and offer him immunity, which he accepts. He tells them some various things, which all turn out to be lies. And they rescind the immunity offer. But still haven't charged him. Now, if you have total immunity, why on earth wouldn't you just tell police what you need to to keep it? I think he genuinely didn't know anything.

So then Sandra King comes out of the woodwork and says she has seen a video tape of Holly tied up getting ready to be assaulted. She says she saw it on Jeff Pearcy's phone, or rather, it was his brother's phone, but somehow Jeff had it. She calls him and says something along the lines of "That video of Holly, I would've watched it if it had been you", to which he responds "I know". He says he didn't hear her and his ex-wife's name is Holly and he's not involved. So they arrest Jeff and his brother Mark Pearcy.

So on the basis of all this, it sounds pretty solid. We have whoever gave the initial tip (we don't know who or what the details are), we have Dylan Adams, we have Shayne Austin, we have Sandra King and the "I know" of Jeff Pearcy. The guys were arrested on this basis.

Then they found the body and they had a whole new set of evidence that they have to compare to what they already thought they knew about the case. It's not always easy for law enforcement to see that what you're getting might not be great evidence and I suspect that's what happened. These interrogation methods that they're being accused of using result in a lot of false confessions and false statements. Particularly when you're offering immunity or leniency. And when you have someone like Sandra King, whose son is in prison and could benefit from this testimony, you have to be careful.

I honestly have no idea if some of these guys are guilty, but I don't believe that all of them are guilty. If there is some truth mixed in with what they've been told so far (which there may be), there are also lies mixed in.

Here are my red flags for the case:

1. The witness statements they're relying on don't appear to have panned out. They have yet to find the video. (I feel pretty confident in saying this because they have yet to re-arrest Mark Pearcy). Austin gave up his deal for immunity because he either couldn't or wouldn't tell them where the body was or any useful details. The most logical explanation is that he simply didn't know. And now they're charging Dylan Adams. That's not normally how you treat your key witness. And he's saying they basically forced him to talk. Not very convincing.

2. They played this weird game of adding and dropping charges that seemed to revolve around the hearings and doing other things seemingly to avoid disclosing any evidence either to the defense or the public.

3. They seemed to be simultaneously using the media to try the case and playing a game of keepaway with them. Typically the media leaks everything that sounds damning to sway the public. In this case, they're leaking all the witness statements, but keeping all the forensics private. If they kept the witness statements private, I'd have a little more faith when they claimed "ongoing investigation"

4. There are just too many people involved now. It's extremely difficult to have a criminal conspiracy with any large number of people. Maybe two or three. But they've arrested 6 and then promised to arrest "many more". There is no way in hell that 10-15 guys conspired to kidnap and murder this girl and then kept it quiet for three years. It just didn't happen. Maybe Zach did it by himself or with one other guy, but all these people? Not likely.

5. His flip out at the TBI. If they had evidence, he wouldn't be panicking. Someone mentioned that they thought it might be intentional to keep everyone distracted...I don't buy it. It looks terrible for him. No one will want to hire him after that. I don't think it's anything other than, there is either no physical evidence or the physical evidence contradicts what the witnesses are saying.

6. Why do they keep stalling? Why won't they give the defense any evidence. That is not normal. They're hiding something from them.
 
I don't believe Stowe wants a "Brady Violation" on his watch. If investigative violations, techniques and improper handling of evidence happened before his tenure he has two choices. Turn over all evidence including tainted and blow the entire case beyond repair. Recuse himself (as he has done) and allow the TBI and other appointed DA to proceed at their peril.

Discovery was to be provided to Defense by late August. That was after giving the DA's office nearly 6 months to do that. Any evidence up until THAT point should have been turned over. It wasn't. The previous DA was being paid until Sept. 1, 2014 and should have done what he was directed to do by the Court. Plain and Simple. And long before Stowe is called as a "witness" for the defense, the previous DA should be, IMO. Just because he lost the election should not mean he should not do his job.

IMO Stowe opened the files and found a stinky turd.

JMO's
 
I don't believe Stowe wants a "Brady Violation" on his watch. If investigative violations, techniques and improper handling of evidence happened before his tenure he has two choices. Turn over all evidence including tainted and blow the entire case beyond repair. Recuse himself (as he has done) and allow the TBI and other appointed DA to proceed at their peril.

Discovery was to be provided to Defense by late August. That was after giving the DA's office nearly 6 months to do that. Any evidence up until THAT point should have been turned over. It wasn't. The previous DA was being paid until Sept. 1, 2014 and should have done what he was directed to do by the Court. Plain and Simple. And long before Stowe is called as a "witness" for the defense, the previous DA should be, IMO. Just because he lost the election should not mean he should not do his job.

IMO Stowe opened the files and found a stinky turd.

JMO's

The whole case is one BIG stinky turd!!
:biggrin:
 
He was wearing camo on the day she was kidnapped (as was her kidnapper) and he made some bizarre statement about looking for someone on his myspace.

SBM. What's the source on he was wearing camo the day she was kidnapped? The photo of himself in camo with the caption about him "looking" for somebody was posted on Facebook a month or two after the abduction. He made a strange post on Facebook right around the exact time Holly was abducted but there was no photo.

BTW that was an excellent post Bali. I think your summary of what has happened/might have happened with the case is probably spot on.
 
SBM. What's the source on he was wearing camo the day she was kidnapped? The photo of himself in camo with the caption about him "looking" for somebody was posted on Facebook a month or two after the abduction. He made a strange post on Facebook right around the exact time Holly was abducted but there was no photo.

Was it really??? Guess that teaches me to believe everything I read on the internet!

BTW that was an excellent post Bali. I think your summary of what has happened/might have happened with the case is probably spot on.

Thanks bro!
 
How excited the nation was, when at just about the anniversary, came all this action of search warrants, arrests, and Oh LOOK! an election looming on the horizon.

Again how excited was the public when, with a new law man in town, SHAZZAM! The remains are found by 2 random guys on a random day.

I will say this about SA, He likely had no idea where she was buried. The reason could be that she was moved and he didn't know. Maybe it was him running his mouth on the top x web site, maybe they threatened him, moved her and a bucket of physical evidence we know nothing about, and he never knew.

Something about those searches convinced the Bobos she was not going to be found alive. Perhaps on SA's info the cadaver dogs alerted and perhaps there was evidence of putrification but nothing to take DNA away. Between SA and DA it falls together but just not enough. And by the election, it started to stink.

:cow:
 
How excited the nation was, when at just about the anniversary, came all this action of search warrants, arrests, and Oh LOOK! an election looming on the horizon.

Again how excited was the public when, with a new law man in town, SHAZZAM! The remains are found by 2 random guys on a random day.

I will say this about SA, He likely had no idea where she was buried. The reason could be that she was moved and he didn't know. Maybe it was him running his mouth on the top x web site, maybe they threatened him, moved her and a bucket of physical evidence we know nothing about, and he never knew.

Something about those searches convinced the Bobos she was not going to be found alive. Perhaps on SA's info the cadaver dogs alerted and perhaps there was evidence of putrification but nothing to take DNA away. Between SA and DA it falls together but just not enough. And by the election, it started to stink.

:cow:

If someone is abducted by a stranger and doesn't show up within a few hours, they are almost always dead when they are eventually found. The Bobos didn't need cadaver dogs or any such thing to come to that conclusion.

In any case, I think there is something else going on here that we don't know about. I figure that there has to be a back story. A random abduction in this particular case does not make sense to me, and I suspect they have a good idea what that something else is, even if they are not telling us. So they knew she was probably dead.
 
I'm thinking a good defense attorney may be able to plant "reasonable doubt" in at least one juror's head after cross-examining what well could be the first prosecution witness -- Holly's brother Clint, whose rather convoluted accountings of the disappearance may prove problematic for the state's attorney.

Further, TBI's actions in investigating this case seem quite risible -- in the sense of eliciting scornful, rather than humorous, laughter at their attempts in solving this tragedy.

Thanks to all of those detailing their opinions about the case as I -- and I've followed the case almost from the first day -- still have no real idea what happened, and why it did.
 
Surely with 460 pieces of evidence they must have something. Right? :pullhair:
 
If someone is abducted by a stranger and doesn't show up within a few hours, they are almost always dead when they are eventually found. The Bobos didn't need cadaver dogs or any such thing to come to that conclusion.

In any case, I think there is something else going on here that we don't know about. I figure that there has to be a back story. A random abduction in this particular case does not make sense to me, and I suspect they have a good idea what that something else is, even if they are not telling us. So they knew she was probably dead.

I don't for a second believe this was a random abduction. Why would a random abduction involve them having an angry kneeling down conversation in the garage? Doesn't make sense. There's a back story that we don't know here. They were looking for someone specific for some specific reason that was not sexual. Maybe they were looking for Holly specifically. Maybe they were looking for Clint. Or her boyfriend. Or someone else that she is close to and either wanted her to take them to them or use her as hostage/bait. I suspect the drug trade may have been involved, but I have no proof either way on that one.
 
I don't for a second believe this was a random abduction. Why would a random abduction involve them having an angry kneeling down conversation in the garage? Doesn't make sense. There's a back story that we don't know here. They were looking for someone specific for some specific reason that was not sexual. Maybe they were looking for Holly specifically. Maybe they were looking for Clint. Or her boyfriend. Or someone else that she is close to and either wanted her to take them to them or use her as hostage/bait. I suspect the drug trade may have been involved, but I have no proof either way on that one.

I agree there is a back story but why do you feel it was not sexual?
 
I agree there is a back story but why do you feel it was not sexual?

It just doesn't seem to fit with how she was abducted. Who abducts a woman for sexual purposes, but argues with her first? What is there to argue about?

Secondly, if it went down how the prosecution is saying it did, there are a number of people involved. A big group of men kidnapping a woman for sexual purposes is strange. Typically, a rape scenario is just one guy. Now, if you ask me, there isn't proof as of yet that more than one person was involved, so this reason is less important. But the kneeling down argument points away from it.
 
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