Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #5 ***ARRESTS***

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I hate how we have some action followed by lulls in this case, I just want to see the hammer of justice come down already!
 
Dogface said:
I hate how we have some action followed by lulls in this case, I just want to see the hammer of justice come down already!
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I agree! That last interview with ZA's cousin set me off. How many times do we have to hear from family and associates of the suspects that "I don't believe that so and so law enforcement agency has any evidence whatsoever that so and so was involved in this crime in any way" followed by silence from LE, or statements like "expect more arrests and more charges".
 
My opinions only, no facts here:

Quoting from an interview with Holly's brother at http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/04/ijvm.01.html

"Well, I stated originally and never wavered from the description of the man being approximately 5`10 and 200 pounds."

Let us pretend that this interview happened and that this statement was made. This is much more specific than the watered-down FBI description of the kidnapper, and could (and should) be emphasized by the defense attorneys.

In spite of considerable research, I am unable to find an official description of the size and weight of the recently-arrested younger brother of the main suspect. Keep looking out for this info and notify me if you see it. I evaluated file photos of the younger brother in two ways. First, I assumed that his head is about as long as his older brother's head (his older brother's height is known). In the second test, I assumed that the buttons on his jail uniform are 9/16 of an inch in diameter. Either way, he comes out shorter and certainly thinner in stature than the implied stocky 5' 10" 200 pound kidnapping suspect, as supposedly preferred by Holly's brother. Although both of the tests I applied are qualitative and subject to perspective errors, I doubt that the younger brother of the main suspect is the kidnapper because of how thin and sleight he appears.

But, I do not disagree when the DA implies that someone else may be arrested. They can start this process by arresting and properly charging a male who fits the witness description of the actual kidnapper. This is the only man I am interested in at the present time.

Sleuth On!
 
Steleheart said:
LOL we can't mention Tau,omikron,pi,iota,chi here as I recall.

:cow:
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:confused: As we all seem a bit confused regarding 'the other site'


Kimster said:
Topix.

If you haven't looked at Topix regarding this case, you might want to take a peek. You can use your brower's search engine and put in Holly's name and Topix and you'll be there. Last time I looked, there were over 7000 posts regarding this case. Some of the comments are in line with the arrests, and many (from prior) have been completely inaccurate. There's gossip, rumor, speculation and fact. How do we discern one from the other? We can't. And that's why we don't allow Topix to be a source link.

For those of us who are reading over there, please remember that when we post here, we need to keep our information focused on MSM and LE information. That's just how we roll on Websleuths. :tyou:
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My opinions only, no facts here:

On the subject of suspect descriptions, let us briefly review the POI guy who was granted immunity for claiming to know where Holly was "disposed of". All prior charges against this guy are misdemeanors (mostly drinking-related). Historical booking photos for this guy lack a height chart (why?). He does appear stocky (I examined several images, going back years). My present opinion is this: if this guy was deeply involved in the Holly Bobo kidnapping, he would not have been treated with "kid gloves" and granted immunity in the first place. More probably, he took a shot at claiming the very substantial (1/4 of a million dollars) reward and is now inextricably ensnared in the investigative dragnet. If anybody here locates an official description of this guy (height and weight), please let me know. Whatever happened to standard mugshots with height-charts and public release (on the internet) of booking sheets?

As for the remaining POI's (the cell-phone video brothers); the authorities would have come down much harder on these two men if they had ANY evidence of their direct involvement in the Holly Bobo kidnapping. So, regardless of whether the video is real or mythical, the investigators have NOT treated either of these men in a fashion to suggest conspiratorial involvement in the Holly Bobo kidnapping.

So we are back to the currently-jailed main suspect and the currently-jailed second suspect (the big guy), neither of whom properly represent the eye-witness description of the man who actually kidnapped Holly Bobo.

Sleuth On!
 
Mr. Noatak said:
So we are back to the currently-jailed main suspect and the currently-jailed second suspect (the big guy), neither of whom properly represent the eye-witness description of the man who actually kidnapped Holly Bobo.
Click to expand...

Obsessing over a desire to nail down who led/lured/coerced Holly from her home when she was abducted may be more of a curiosity item than anything else, at this point (unless you believe LE doesn't have any solid evidence against these guys).

Accounting for the difference between CB's rough description, and the perps, can be explained in other ways. Maybe, lacking a measuring tape and a chance to measure the perp, CB simply mis-estimated the size. Or maybe someone else besides ZA or JA did the initial act, and delivered her to them. Or maybe something else. But knowing the time and circumstance of the initial act of abduction, without being able to know who took her, isn't a case killer (otherwise, you could never convict an abductor without seeing the initial act.) It's just a lack of something you wish you had.

But no matter how you resolve that, OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T FIGURE IT OUT, the legal case against them is more likely to hinge on the ability to definitively prove somehow that HB was in JA/ZA custody after she was abducted, using eyewitness testimony bolstered by evidence gleaned from search-warrant-enabled evidence and from what the remains revealed. Prove the defendants had her, after she was abducted, and that she was at some point killed (not hard to prove, with the remains having been found), and the defendants hang, even if they can't definitively prove who had her at 8:01 a.m. on that morning.
 
Mr. Noatak said:
My opinions only, no facts here:

On the subject of suspect descriptions, let us briefly review the POI guy who was granted immunity for claiming to know where Holly was "disposed of". All prior charges against this guy are misdemeanors (mostly drinking-related). Historical booking photos for this guy lack a height chart (why?). He does appear stocky (I examined several images, going back years). My present opinion is this: if this guy was deeply involved in the Holly Bobo kidnapping, he would not have been treated with "kid gloves" and granted immunity in the first place. More probably, he took a shot at claiming the very substantial (1/4 of a million dollars) reward and is now inextricably ensnared in the investigative dragnet. If anybody here locates an official description of this guy (height and weight), please let me know. Whatever happened to standard mugshots with height-charts and public release (on the internet) of booking sheets?

As for the remaining POI's (the cell-phone video brothers); the authorities would have come down much harder on these two men if they had ANY evidence of their direct involvement in the Holly Bobo kidnapping. So, regardless of whether the video is real or mythical, the investigators have NOT treated either of these men in a fashion to suggest conspiratorial involvement in the Holly Bobo kidnapping.

So we are back to the currently-jailed main suspect and the currently-jailed second suspect (the big guy), neither of whom properly represent the eye-witness description of the man who actually kidnapped Holly Bobo.

Sleuth On!
Click to expand...

I agree with you on these things. If Mark Pearcy was sitting there video taping a woman being murdered...that's a much bigger charge than "tampering with evidence". I'm not entirely sure what that adds up to, but I would suspect that being at that level of involvement in a murder would get you charged with murder as well. I have *serious* doubts that there is anything in the way of solid evidence at this point.
 
SteveS said:
Obsessing over a desire to nail down who led/lured/coerced Holly from her home when she was abducted may be more of a curiosity item than anything else, at this point (unless you believe LE doesn't have any solid evidence against these guys).

Accounting for the difference between CB's rough description, and the perps, can be explained in other ways. Maybe, lacking a measuring tape and a chance to measure the perp, CB simply mis-estimated the size. Or maybe someone else besides ZA or JA did the initial act, and delivered her to them. Or maybe something else. But knowing the time and circumstance of the initial act of abduction, without being able to know who took her, isn't a case killer (otherwise, you could never convict an abductor without seeing the initial act.) It's just a lack of something you wish you had.

But no matter how you resolve that, OR EVEN IF YOU DON'T FIGURE IT OUT, the legal case against them is more likely to hinge on the ability to definitively prove somehow that HB was in JA/ZA custody after she was abducted, using eyewitness testimony bolstered by evidence gleaned from search-warrant-enabled evidence and from what the remains revealed. Prove the defendants had her, after she was abducted, and that she was at some point killed (not hard to prove, with the remains having been found), and the defendants hang, even if they can't definitively prove who had her at 8:01 a.m. on that morning.
Click to expand...

My opinions only, no facts here:

Maybe it is just me, but I cannot see the prosecutors stating in court that Holly's brother is the best and only eyewitness to the abduction, but that he was wrong about the height by a half foot or so and wrong about the weight too. I feel that the prosecution will hurt its case if they minimize the observations of their most important witness. If the defense emphasizes the 5' 10 inch, 200 pound description from the CNN interview ["Well, I stated originally and never wavered from the description of the man being approximately 5`10 and 200 pounds"], the prosecutors will be in a bind of sorts. UNLESS, of course, they identify, charge, and arrest the POI who reasonably fits the eyewitness description of the kidnapper before trial.

Now, we know that the following will not happen, but suppose that the prosecution argued that an unidentified "John Doe" committed the abduction and then delivered Holly to the two main suspects. If I were a juror and heard this, I would start edging towards the exit! BECAUSE, then, questions are raised- such as- was Holly delivered alive? OR- is this "John Doe" actually the sole perpetrator? Or- why is this "John Doe" so hard to identify?

I personally believe that Holly's brother gave a good description. Let's do some soul-searching here; the main reason that some posters question the ability of Holly's brother to estimate the height and weight is because the two main suspects simply don't fit. Let us reverse the logic. Pretend that both of the main suspects were exactly 5' 10 inches and 200 pounds. Would these same posters then argue that Holly's brother was wrong and the abductor was actually between 6'3 inches and 6'7 inches?

You see what is going on here? We are letting the authorities define the abductor, rather than the eyewitness.

Sleuth On!


((My quote above from Holly's brother is at http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/04/ijvm.01.html))
 
My opinions only, no facts here:

Before reading the following, I need to clarify my opinions. I think that the prosecution is praying for two or more of the suspects/POI's to rat out the others or at least cop a guilty plea. If all of the named individuals steadfastly refuse to plead guilty or cooperate, this will be a very tricky case. Equally, if a couple of the suspects/POI's do turn State's evidence, the Defense will have a field day during cross examination.

OK, I said my piece, and here is something we should talk about- how will the prosecution try this case?

Would everybody be tried at the same time, as a group? I doubt that- just too complicated. OK, can the authorities try everybody separately? That strategy would be expensive and lengthy.

My hunch is that they will try one of the two main suspects first, and hope that they obtain a conviction. The risk of course is- if you try a kingpin and lose- it can topple your other cases.

Don't forget about the importance of alibis. There are limited internet rumors that the "big guy" main suspect does have an alibi that places him far away at the time of the crime. We also have the bizarre (supposed) Facebook text-post by the other main suspect at the precise time of the abduction. What if this post was from his home computer? Alibis can be interesting in "usual suspect" cases like this, because the alibi witness is sometimes an unassociated honest law-abiding citizen.

All of the suspects/POI's must by now know that this case is not going to evaporate. Why are they so stubborn at this late date? Could one or more of them simply be innocent?

Sleuth On!
 
Mr. Noatak said:
... suppose that the prosecution argued that an unidentified "John Doe" committed the abduction and then delivered Holly to the two main suspects. If I were a juror and heard this, I would start edging towards the exit! BECAUSE, then, questions are raised- such as- was Holly delivered alive? OR- is this "John Doe" actually the sole perpetrator? Or- why is this "John Doe" so hard to identify?
Click to expand...

If that's where they go with the case, so what? This case, if tried correctly, probably won't be hinged on PROVING the identity of the person at HB's house on the day of abduction, so if they don't know FOR CERTAIN who it is, no big deal. A sharp DA will simply admit the fuzziness, explain why it doesn't matter to figure out, and go on about the business of proving what needs to be proven.

Why doesn't it matter? Because she wasn't killed at that point or in that place. Presumably, they have evidence such as blood, DNA, and eyewitness testimony that will place HB in the custody of the defendants later on. That's all that really matters, because "custody at a later time" shows with certainty that SOMEHOW they must have taken her, either personally or by having her taken. In turn, that removes any burden of having to figure out the particulars of who the person was at her house at 8 a.m. on that day.
 
Mr. Noatak said:
My opinions only, no facts here:

Quoting from an interview with Holly's brother at http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/04/ijvm.01.html

"Well, I stated originally and never wavered from the description of the man being approximately 5`10 and 200 pounds."

Let us pretend that this interview happened and that this statement was made. This is much more specific than the watered-down FBI description of the kidnapper, and could (and should) be emphasized by the defense attorneys.

In spite of considerable research, I am unable to find an official description of the size and weight of the recently-arrested younger brother of the main suspect. Keep looking out for this info and notify me if you see it. I evaluated file photos of the younger brother in two ways. First, I assumed that his head is about as long as his older brother's head (his older brother's height is known). In the second test, I assumed that the buttons on his jail uniform are 9/16 of an inch in diameter. Either way, he comes out shorter and certainly thinner in stature than the implied stocky 5' 10" 200 pound kidnapping suspect, as supposedly preferred by Holly's brother. Although both of the tests I applied are qualitative and subject to perspective errors, I doubt that the younger brother of the main suspect is the kidnapper because of how thin and sleight he appears.

But, I do not disagree when the DA implies that someone else may be arrested. They can start this process by arresting and properly charging a male who fits the witness description of the actual kidnapper. This is the only man I am interested in at the present time.

Sleuth On!
Click to expand...

Don't get so hung up on the physical description. If it's the difference of 300 and 150 pounds, there could be some concern. If it's the difference between 6'10" and 5'2", there could be some concern. I mean by all accounts the individual was were camo right? And camo is designed to break up or disrupt the natural lines of the human body. Add to that the fact that I'm sure CB wasn't looking at the individual with the specific thought in mind at the time of exactly how tall is this guy.
 
MizStery said:
Oh,I have so many but,here's just one question I would like answered. Ready,OK,What happened that we never heard one thing about the scheduled hearing Monday in Decatur County Sessions Court for Mark Pearcy?
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SteveS said:
Unconfirmed info, but it might answer lingering questions if true: the MP hearing, originally on the docket for Sept 22, was rescheduled to Sept 29.
Click to expand...

dog.gone.cute said:
:seeya: Hi SS,

Yes ... I read over there :facepalm: that it was re-scheduled for September 29 ...

But I cannot find a link in the MSM to confirm this.
Click to expand...
:gavel: Please post if you find any information on Mark Pearcy's rescheduled hearing.
 
Foxfire said:
OT- Maybe Ginseng hunters should organize a SAR;

Human remains found at state border
Investigation under way - September 25. 2014
http://www.claiborneprogress.net/ne.../50762855/Human-remains-found-at-state-border

Human remains were found overnight on the Tennessee and Kentucky border, according to law enforcement officials.




According to officials, ginseng hunters found remains of a human body late Wednesday night or early Thursday morning.
<sniped - read more>
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for posting this. I had to look where this was in Tennessee and it's close to Anderson County where the POI in Nikki Burgess's disappearance lives. Sure wishing we could find her.
 
Mr. Noatak said:
My opinions only, no facts here:

Before reading the following, I need to clarify my opinions. I think that the prosecution is praying for two or more of the suspects/POI's to rat out the others or at least cop a guilty plea. If all of the named individuals steadfastly refuse to plead guilty or cooperate, this will be a very tricky case. Equally, if a couple of the suspects/POI's do turn State's evidence, the Defense will have a field day during cross examination.
Click to expand...

I suspect this is exactly what they're doing. This is how many criminal cases with multiple defendants are handled. It worries me greatly because its also how many wrongful convictions have happened (central park jogger for example).


I personally believe that Holly's brother gave a good description. Let's do some soul-searching here; the main reason that some posters question the ability of Holly's brother to estimate the height and weight is because the two main suspects simply don't fit. Let us reverse the logic. Pretend that both of the main suspects were exactly 5' 10 inches and 200 pounds. Would these same posters then argue that Holly's brother was wrong and the abductor was actually between 6'3 inches and 6'7 inches?
Click to expand...

Seeing someone briefly from a distance in a stressful situation isn't necessarily the best way to judge size. So for him to say the guy was 5'10...I'm not necessarily going to hold him to that. There are people who see house cats and think they are lions and jaguars. But the thing that makes me question the identification is that he mistook the man for Drew. To me, these suspects look so vastly different from Drew that I have a really hard time believing it could be them. Their coloring is different, one is wayyy too skinny and too tall, the other is both too tall and too heavy.
 
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