GUILTY Hong Kong - Jesse Ruri, 29, & Sumarti Ningsih, 25, murdered, Wan Chai, 31 Oct 2014

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Why are the correctional officers wearing the masks?
 
PastTense said:
Why are the correctional officers wearing the masks?
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flu & cold season in Asia -- pretty commonplace to see people wearing face masks so that they don't get sick IME
 
bgbonzo said:
Zwiebel -

I don't understand why so many posters on this forum make a point of asserting that they don't believe prostitutes deserve to be murdered. Against whom are you defending yourself? This seems to occur in almost every thread concerning the murder of a prostitute.

And a second question to whomever may know: how prestigious are Cambridge and Oxford these days? I know they've long been the elite English schools but they also seem to take a rather large percentage of English university students.

So for example Harvard in the US seems comparable at first, but then Harvard takes a very very tiny percentage of total US college students. But then again going to college is a lot less elite or distinctive in the US than in the rest of the West.

Just curious, sorry for the digressions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Have you ever noticed how reports of murders so often refer to 'innocent' victims and wondered why it should need to be clarified that a victim is innocent? But it's difficult - if not impossible - to find the word ever used in conjunction with the murder of a sex worker. That speaks volumes to me.

As for the elitism of Oxbridge, I can only concur with what our other posters have said. Lol, I think England's still the only country where citizens can mostly accurately judge the background, wealth, status, post(zip)code and likely employment of a person and their parents, just by the way they say 'yes' and still call their mother 'Mummy' as an adult. :)
 
Zwiebel -

Thanks for the reply. Incidentally does anyone know if it's possible to give thanks in the Tapatalk mobile app?

I have not noticed the specific phenomenon you mention but to the extent that it holds true I would suggest another explanation.

In newspaper speak it seems to me "innocent victim" usually means "random victim". When a jealous husband kills his wife out of paranoia I think the "innocent" label is not much emphasized, and I don't think it's because people think she deserved it.

I think the reason prostitute murders are less interesting to the reading public and perhaps to police (though less so that is widely assumed in my opinion) is that those murders imply less danger to the public than the murder of random people in public.

When you think of a random spree shooter victim you think "Wow that could have been me." Or your child or whomever.

When a prostitute is murdered people are more likely to think "I wonder exactly how that went down". Prostitutes are uniquely vulnerable and it's a world most people are not involved in and it's peculiar risks imply very little about danger to the general public.

Now I don't want to sound naive and I don't deny that prostitutes have low status in all kinds of ways. But I simply don't believe that a large portion of the public believes prostitutes deserve to be murdered and that that is what is reflected in the relative lack of alarm or public interest in the murder of prostitutes.

But I'm sure I may be in error here.
 
I do not believe a prostitute deserves to me murdered. Yes, they are sex workers...often illegally and some of the public (don't ask how much) will say ''they brought it on themselves'' ''they are only prostitutes no one will miss them'' they know what they are letting themselves in for'' To me, no matter what your profession is you do not deserve to be murdered, prostitution is legal in some parts of the world, I think mainly due to 2 reasons, 1 being they can pay tax and 2 being they can do their job safely without huge risks.

I remember after the ipswich prostitutes were murdered in 2006 the closing statement was something to the lines of these girls did no harm to anyone, no matter what their profession was they did not deserved to be murdered.

Of course they are much more vulnerable and take huge risks getting into cars with strangers etc.... but deserved to me murdered? No! And innocent victims in my mind.

Rest in peace to these two girls who were only trying to help their families financially. God bless them :(
 
Sinead1989 said:
Rest in peace to these two girls who were only trying to help their families financially. God bless them :(
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Or maybe they were enjoying their jobs. Or were too lazy too work the "normal hours". I see on WS the opposite attitude, which is to white-wash them. Every prostitute does it because of a noble reason, like feeding her family, or helping orphans in Africa, or saving the rain forest.
 
If they were Indonesians immigrants in the HK sex trade I would say it is very likely they were supporting relatives back home and very likely they looked forward to retiring to their home villages. (If they follow the Thai model the overwhelming majority of the demimonde are poor girls from the countryside.)

Not commenting on your larger point either way but defending the assumption in this particular case. If you were talking about escorts that were themselves from first world countries it would likely be quite a different scenario.
 
Lulu14 said:
Or maybe they were enjoying their jobs. Or were too lazy too work the "normal hours". I see on WS the opposite attitude, which is to white-wash them. Every prostitute does it because of a noble reason, like feeding her family, or helping orphans in Africa, or saving the rain forest.
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Ouch!

And yet I do not disagree.
 
Lulu14 said:
Or maybe they were enjoying their jobs. Or were too lazy too work the "normal hours". I see on WS the opposite attitude, which is to white-wash them. Every prostitute does it because of a noble reason, like feeding her family, or helping orphans in Africa, or saving the rain forest.
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Idk what tone to take your reply with. :thinking: However, I did see a statement from one of the prostitutes father who stated he had shipped her off to do that work to provide for the family.
 
Daily Mail article on the funeral of Sumarti Ningsih, with lots of photos:
Miss Ningsih's funeral took place this morning in her home village, which she left in her late teens to start a new life as a domestic worker in Hong Kong. She had earlier married and divorced, and is the mother of a six year old son who has been raised by her parents.

While working in Hong Kong, Miss Ningsih was able to send large sums of money back to Gandrungmangu to help pay for her son's education, but problems with her visa meant she started struggling to find domestic and waitress work, and was forced to become a prostitute.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-s-coffin-funeral-procession-Indonesia.html
 
This new article in the NY Times sheds more light on the obstacles domestic workers face in Hong Kong, and the stories of the victims, Ms Seneng and Ms Sumarti. Still little about why Jutting was sacked from his job though, except he'd stopped attending regularly. Is that enough for a banker to lose his license? Or could there have been some financial wildness going on there too? Jutting's employers have kept pretty quiet about that.

'Domestic servants, called helpers, cannot apply for permanent residency, which businessmen like Mr. Jutting qualify for after seven years. And they are subject to a special pay scale, with a wage floor that works out to about two-thirds less than Hong Kong’s minimum wage of $3.87 an hour. The law also makes their lives here dependent on remaining in the good graces of their employers. If dismissed, they have 14 days to leave the country and must pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, to placement agencies to arrange a return.

Facing those hurdles, and dismal job prospects back home, some dismissed servants decide to overstay their visas. Such was the case with Ms. Seneng, who had overstayed her domestic servant visa by three years, according to the Indonesian Consulate. With no right to work in other professions, some end up in Wan Chai.

“There are a million and one ways to exploit the migrant domestic workers, especially from Indonesia,” said Norma Muico, a researcher for Amnesty International who focuses on migrant rights. “If they come out of this with a successful migration, it’s due to luck, because there are so many ways it can go wrong.” '

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/21/world/asia/2-worlds-of-hong-kong-and-a-fatal-intersection.html
 
The jury in the trial of a British investment banker accused of murdering two Indonesian women in his Hong Kong apartment on Tuesday watched a horrific video that he filmed while sexually torturing and killing his first victim...

The four women and five men, all middle-aged, shifted on their seats, clenched their jaws, drew in their breath, and sometimes dropped their eyes as they sat through the grisly 20 minute clip on the second day of the trial.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-murder-idUSKCN12P088
 
I'm following this with much interest, I remember it being in the news when it happened then forgot all about it. Funnily enough I was in Hong Kong last week and read something about it, we were in Wan Chai and walked right past the apartment where it happened. I'm deeply curious about the mental state involved here and what led him to do these things. I would also love to know his thoughts and feelings on it now he presumably no longer has access to drugs and alcohol. The fact that he's been declared ft to stand trial seems to be incompatible with the mentality he had at the time of the crimes as is starting to come out. I feel almost certain that he will be found guilty of murder and sentenced to life but of course we never know and the defence has not started its case yet. How those poor women suffered does not bear thinking about, I could not be a jury member on this case
 
CuriousUK said:
I'm following this with much interest, I remember it being in the news when it happened then forgot all about it. Funnily enough I was in Hong Kong last week and read something about it, we were in Wan Chai and walked right past the apartment where it happened. I'm deeply curious about the mental state involved here and what led him to do these things. I would also love to know his thoughts and feelings on it now he presumably no longer has access to drugs and alcohol. The fact that he's been declared ft to stand trial seems to be incompatible with the mentality he had at the time of the crimes as is starting to come out. I feel almost certain that he will be found guilty of murder and sentenced to life but of course we never know and the defence has not started its case yet. How those poor women suffered does not bear thinking about, I could not be a jury member on this case
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As to his mental state at the time of the killings, my guess (as a layman) is that he felt deeply rejected by the unfaithfulness of his fiancee and all his pent up hate and anger was unleashed towards the two unfortunate victims.

In one of the articles yesterday it is said he lost weight and looks much better now than in the pictures from 2014. No access to booze and drugs seems to have been good for him. But I still have to hear any remorse or regret from him. AFAIK he has not said anything yet, maybe he will during the trial.

CNN was reporting today that the jury had to watch hours of video of torturing of the victims and him boasting afterwards. Horrendous.
In total, 43 videos found on Jutting's iPhone were played one after the other in court for three hours on Tuesday. Some were only played as audio because of the graphic content, while others were shown to the jury and public in their entirety.
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http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/25/asia/hong-kong-rurik-jutting-double-murder-trial-video/index.html
 
New report from the trial. Prosecution has finished its case and Defence will start on Monday

The filmed interviews were shown as the prosecution finished its case and Jutting's barrister, Tim Owen QC, revealed the defendant would not be giving evidence

Instead the defence will be calling two medial witnesses - a psychiatrist and a doctor from the UK - as part of their case. The defence is due to start on Monday.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-British-banker-yelled-Hong-Kong-streets.html
 
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