Hotel Cecil Rooftop Access Discussion

[Peter Brendt]

when I first put the dummy in the duffle bag...I thought the same thing!

then I tried to put it over both shoulders ( like a back pack) ....and it was really hard. I know 115 lbs doesn't seem like a lot of weight, but it was ( for me) trying to hoist it up on my shoulders.( I was only doing 90lbs)

The main problem was the dummy wanting to fall out.....It would have been really hard to fit the head and shoulder area in the bag ( as it was really tight and would not go all the way in the bag if I did it that way.)

I guess I tried the path of least resistance.



thanks for your input Peter...always enjoy reading your posts!

Old trick, the higher the duffel bag stands, the easier it is to hoist on the shoulders. Of course, in case of a body and if you have two bags or something else to wrap the other end of the body, the easier it gets. Try it, pack the dummy in the bag (well, half of it), then put back on a table, go a little in the knees and just slip in. As we all know, lift with the knees, not out of the back.
Another, maybe more interesting detail is height. The bigger the difference in body height between you and your dummy, the easier it gets, at least if you can secure the part out of the duffel bag from swinging around. EL was 5'2", that translates to ab. 152-153 cm. Someone with lets say just 160 cm would be in real trouble, someone with 185 to 190 cm, probably not so much. I don't know how tall you are, but I'm almost 187 cm, what translates to between 6'1" and 6'2".

 

[Chorley8]

Excellent discussion about the bags thanks all of this beyond me just like the phones. And ok Dotr you have reconvinced me!

Just a quick note to say I am still interested in the San Diego and Toronto trips it would be great if an insider could help us out.

We know that she stayed at 357 College Street a hostel just across the street from 360 College where there is a Union Ergonomics outlet (in case anyone knows anything about that curious franchise).

By the way just correcting there is a Loving Hut in Toronto 140 Spadina (good food). There is one in Burnaby I believe. Again not being conspirational about the sect just thinking in terms of who she would meet and where. McDonald's is not responsible if the killer buys a Big Mac after the crime.

 

[Peter Brendt]

McDonald's is not responsible if the killer buys a Big Mac after the crime.

Hehe, this is even official ... the Son of Sam went to McD after his kills.
But now serious: What, if the guy(s) who did that would have been two duffel bags at their disposal? Then it would be really easy peasy. The real problem wouldn't be to transport the body, even not up a ladder, but the real problem would be to transport a body without being noticed.
Here is my problem: The elevator video is about 2am. She presses the uppermost buttons, but one of them didn't stay lighted. This led to some speculation about the floors, she was on. The point in question is, the hotel, full of young people, who may partied till 2am, that is in the floors 4-6. Everything higher is, as I understand it, long term residents, some with long and sad histories. Question is, what is their party behavior? How much life si going on there at 2am?

 

[Chorley8]

Union Ergonomics: reason I am asking if that it has come up in a couple of other things I am looking at. To give an example of one thing that puzzles me why would an office workers ergonomics company be offering DNA tests and note the fact that the DNA in the sample photo is being taken from a child while a few more wait in the background. Talk about giving full service to your employees! Can't fully explain yet how I am thinking about this in relation to Elisa Lam but will get to it.

http://www.unionergonomics.com/dna_test.html

Note how 'unscientific' and 'unrigorous' the description is another franchise has a storefront at 1246 Bloor Street Toronto (see google street view) and I mean it looks like a lot of businesses but a lot of things seem to be mixed together - and why the DNA testing?

"Gene Lab DNA collects DNA sample of your customer at their residences. Our certified DNA sample collectors check the proper photo identifications of your customer to make sure the DNA sample belongs to the customer you requested. The DNA sample is then shipped to Canada for testing.

Currently Gene Lab DNA offers DNA sample collection in major cities of Canada, USA, Mexico, England, Germany, Austria, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, Ireland, Bahamas, Barbados, Philippines, India, Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, Netherlands, Brazil, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Argentina, Brazil, Portugal, Panama, Columbia, Chilli, Peru, Russia, Ukraine, Nigeria, South Africa and Australia.

Gene Lab DNA is continuously expanding. Gene Lab DNA is now of the largest global provider of DNA testing services. And its mission is to provide DNA testing services in every city of the world."

 

[dotr]

Just throwing this one out there, considering both were female university students in BC..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/11/30/bc-psychopath-parents.html

"'Not welcome back home'

In a search warrant for her premises obtained by CBC News, investigators alleged:
Bourque had thoughts of killing a drunk SFU roommate, but decided there'd be too much evidence.
Bourque wanted to get a gun and shoot homeless people.
Bourque persuaded a suicidal boy, online, to kill himself.
Bourque fantasized about killing someone during a home invasion.

Bourque's family believes she was ready to take the next step and start killing humans"

 

[Peter Brendt]

Union Ergonomics: reason I am asking if that it has come up in a couple of other things I am looking at. To give an example of one thing that puzzles me why would an office workers ergonomics company be offering DNA tests and note the fact that the DNA in the sample photo is being taken from a child while a few more wait in the background. Talk about giving full service to your employees! Can't fully explain yet how I am thinking about this in relation to Elisa Lam but will get to it.

http://www.unionergonomics.com/dna_test.html

Note how 'unscientific' and 'unrigorous' the description is another franchise has a storefront at 1246 Bloor Street Toronto (see google street view) and I mean it looks like a lot of businesses but a lot of things seem to be mixed together - and why the DNA testing?

"Gene Lab DNA collects DNA sample of your customer at their residences. Our certified DNA sample collectors check the proper photo identifications of your customer to make sure the DNA sample belongs to the customer you requested. The DNA sample is then shipped to Canada for testing.

Currently Gene Lab DNA offers DNA sample collection in major cities of Canada, USA, Mexico, England, Germany, Austria, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, Ireland, Bahamas, Barbados, Philippines, India, Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, Netherlands, Brazil, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Argentina, Brazil, Portugal, Panama, Columbia, Chilli, Peru, Russia, Ukraine, Nigeria, South Africa and Australia.

Gene Lab DNA is continuously expanding. Gene Lab DNA is now of the largest global provider of DNA testing services. And its mission is to provide DNA testing services in every city of the world."

After what I read on their website, my suspicion is, they live rather from the "fathers" who want to prove, they are "not the fathers" plus the fathers, who try to prove they are the fathers of certain children than from murder cases. How are they connected to EL?

 

[medsleuth]

That is very interesting about how easy it was to get to the roof via fire escape. Someone else with building maintenance experience in another city had written that it would be very difficult for an amateur to get to the roof without experiencing extreme vertigo.

FYI - I am of the opinion that the elevator video shows a young person having fun messing around with the elevator in an old building. Perhaps playing some kind of game with others.

 

[Conductor71]

The real problem wouldn't be to transport the body, even not up a ladder, but the real problem would be to transport a body without being noticed.

Here is my problem: The elevator video is about 2am. She presses the uppermost buttons, but one of them didn't stay lighted. T ais led to some speculation about the floors, she was on. The point in question is, the hotel, full of young people, who may partied till 2am, that is in the floors 4-6. Everything higher is, as I understand it, long term residents, some with long and sad histories. Question is, what is their party behavior? How much life si going on there at 2am?

I have a slightly different timeline based on the normal speed cleanup and time sync now on YouTube. Not sure you have seen it:

Elisa Lam Time Stamp Conspiracy MUST SEE! - YouTube

According to this, the time of the video is 12:22 to 12:26 am Feb 1st. KTLA reports that EL was last physically seen by an employee "in the lobby late hours of the 31st". Late hours to me says between 11 pm and midnight. At that sighting "nothing seemed suspicious" according to employees.

Source KTLA

If this is true it is important to note that all seemed normal; she was not petting koala bears or talking to herself in the lobby. This also leaves a short window of time for her to be drugged and the time of her video. Exactly why was she in the lobby? Was she returning from somewhere or did she need to speak with an employee?

 

[Peter Brendt]

I have a slightly different timeline based on the normal speed cleanup and time sync now on YouTube. Not sure you have seen it:

Elisa Lam Time Stamp Conspiracy MUST SEE! - YouTube

According to this, the time of the video is 12:22 to 12:26 am Feb 1st. KTLA reports that EL was last physically seen by an employee "in the lobby late hours of the 31st". Late hours to me says between 11 pm and midnight. At that sighting "nothing seemed suspicious" according to employees.

Source KTLA

If this is true it is important to note that all seemed normal; she was not petting koala bears or talking to herself in the lobby. This also leaves a short window of time for her to be drugged and the time of her video. Exactly why was she in the lobby? Was she returning from somewhere or did she need to speak with an employee?

Funny thing: I remember traveling in my own youth and it was quite usual, that there was a little bit of partying going on every night. Usually, the epicenters were public areas, like lounge or some rooms on the floors as well, which is, as I realize today simply the usual pattern of human behavior. Either it starts where people come together anyway, or it starts when someone visits his neighbors.
The point is, a party around midnight isn't bound to end 5 minutes after midnight. Especially not with a bunch of young people. They have easily the energy to make it till 2am and longer.
Parties of young people have often a tendency to spawn games. Hotel hide and seek was in my days popular, the variant were pairs were not always expected to show up again with the bunch if you get my meaning. I had to think about it, when I saw the elevator video again. She hides, she looks out in the floor, she gesticulates, she dances, but she DOESN'T SPEAK! So it looks like, she was aware someone was looking for her and others, but she was not afraid. In the context of some partying including a little game play, she appears rather mischievous than drugged. Which doesn't mean, I would exclude some drinks.

 

[Qrious]

.
.
.
Please look at the Elisa Lam Rotary Club photo if you search google images with that it would come up first to the left. This is the photo of her winning 800 dollars for a scholarship. I know photos can play tricks but this is less true of digital - is Elisa on a different plane, brighter more vibrant or am I imagining this? Look in particular at the pixellation of the faces.

Interesting observation. That photo struck me as odd/unnatural too the instant I looked at it, way before I read your post. Elisa's image just didn't seem to blend in well with the rest.

But I don't know what to make of it. You seem to have something in mind. Care to share your thoughts? Thanks.

 

[four_seasons]

That is very interesting about how easy it was to get to the roof via fire escape. Someone else with building maintenance experience in another city had written that it would be very difficult for an amateur to get to the roof without experiencing extreme vertigo.

FYI - I am of the opinion that the elevator video shows a young person having fun messing around with the elevator in an old building. Perhaps playing some kind of game with others.

actually, it wasn't too difficult for amateurs to use the fire escape to get to the roof. There are at least 2 videos out there with the Chinese "investigators" getting to the roof through via the fire escape.

 

[tapu]

~~snip~~

Since this is the rooftop thread: will just say that I think almost everything that has been surmised is possible e.g. the door or her willingly or unwillingly being lead to the roof except 1. taking her up the ladder from the fire escapes dead not possible IMO 2. that she went willingly into the water tank - just personally I cannot fathom the amount of discussion on this and not just on WS - I mean LE and media gave this the push and we have willingly followed. Death by watertank is necessary for some reason I can't figure out. Though just to say that the unseemly media coverage with reporters giggling about how disgusting it must have been to in effect "drink" Elisa and also what I take to be the two fake British tourists interviewed outside emphasizing how they more or less ritually (since who would not move out?) drank and bathed in "her" (not that I believe they did this but it is the story) is designed to play on all of our deep-seated phobias around cannibalism and phobias around contamination from a corpse. Now on university campuses across N. America there are campaigns to ban bottled water. There was a huge Dow plan in Azerbaijian for a water filtration plant announced almost to the day and one of the tourists is supposedly from Azerbaijian not again that I believe that.

Before we ridicule theories like this which I have not originated in any case you have to realize the billions at play in the water industry. California and U.S. to be water deprived throughout 21st century. Canada where Elisa is from an obvious source of water. Azerbaijian important of course for oil and natural gas again a big story early February the pipeline to Turkey.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-make-lake-water-drinkable-in-azerbaijan.html

http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/02/11/turkey-azerbaijan-reach-agreement-on-natural-gas-pipeline/

Still I don't claim to understand the purposes of the manipulation by the theme is PURITY/POLLUTION and water. I will be perfectly honest after reading this story I felt the water in my apt. tasted "strange" - the taboos are powerful.

<tapu nods sagely> Chinatown.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I found an interesting article in a San Diego publication about Morbid Xiii and his band member Desiree Preferring to stay in the upper floors and attics and roofs of buildings to record the "dark noises". http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2010/jun/09/blurt3/

This article is from June 9th. It also mentions that Desiree was a victim of a random street assault from a man they had seen earlier at the bar. She was raped within 2 months after the random assault. Is the man who tried to assault her in San Diego in June connected to the Record label and bass player/band responsible for her rape only 2 months after? Are these the men who were hassling Elisa at the bar in San Diego?????

Please keep reading because I believe a group are trying to FRAME MORBID and DESIREE for making it public knowledge that members of a band Antebellum and the head of the Metal Label of Perverse Productions had DRUGGED or dosed Desiree and she woke up the next day to find her car was driven by someone beside her and left down the street and her PHONE WAS GONE. Perverse Productions members are a little more "ghetto" and are known to play in Mexico (possible connection between Elisa mentioning pushy Mexican and Italian guys in Speakeasy bar? Maybe they play Mexico often bc some members are latino and have a fan base there?)

The lead singer (George?) named himself "Rape" after he possibly/presumably raped Desiree following drugging her to incapacitation and jumping morbid to isolate Desiree and abduct her.

Here is Desiree's Story! http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=58822

Perverse Productions had tried to frame Morbid and say he was abusive and they were simply saving a drunk and upset woman from an angry boyfriend. Desiree completely discounted their claim and sticks to her story.

The band members from Perverse Productions are based in San Diego. Maybe they saw this article and info about Desiree and Morbid recording sounds on roofs and staying on upper floors where they live and set them up!!!! http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2010/jun/09/blurt3/

Maybe the Perverse Productions members are perverse enough to drug poor Elisa like they did Desiree and throw her body in the tank to die as a sacrificial lamb for their devious revenge for Desiree's snitching! They are trying to intimidate their rape victim! They are trying to isolate/frame her friend and band mate Morbid. This is the significance of the roof!

They knew Morbid and Desiree favored recording up there and only lived places where the roof/upper floors could be accessed, knew his fingerprints would be everywhere any how, and set him up!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe Desiree pressed charges on them or they were trying to Intimidate Desiree and Morbid by framing morbid/showing Desiree what her fate could have been???

Morbid and Desiree went to school for music in Germany. They were well respected for their appreciation of music. I think these Perverse Productions men are using Desiree and Morbid's own art/image/lyrics against them.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I have a slightly different timeline based on the normal speed cleanup and time sync now on YouTube. Not sure you have seen it:

Elisa Lam Time Stamp Conspiracy MUST SEE! - YouTube

According to this, the time of the video is 12:22 to 12:26 am Feb 1st. KTLA reports that EL was last physically seen by an employee "in the lobby late hours of the 31st". Late hours to me says between 11 pm and midnight. At that sighting "nothing seemed suspicious" according to employees.

Source KTLA

If this is true it is important to note that all seemed normal; she was not petting koala bears or talking to herself in the lobby. This also leaves a short window of time for her to be drugged and the time of her video. Exactly why was she in the lobby? Was she returning from somewhere or did she need to speak with an employee?

Perhaps she was returning to her room from a bar when she was seen in the lobby (that late I don't think she's getting coffee). If the bar was close enough to the hotel building, she might of had some lasting sobriety before feeling like she had been drugged. In he video she almost walks in the elevator at first as if she is trying to hide how "drunk" she was. Trying to walk as straight as possible in the elevator. Maybe the drugs were starting to kick in while she was in elevator and maybe the suspect/s who drugged her talked her into letting them into the hotel to hang with her.

Maybe her odd behavior in the video is her realizing that she is getting increasingly more "drunk" or drugged feeling. Perhaps the suspects and her were hanging out and she ventured downstairs to tell front desk she wasnt feeling right. Maybe she realizes in the elevator that something is very wrong and when she exits when talking to unknown person/people (probably suspects who followed her in from bar), the suspects are reassuring her that she's ok and probably just drank too much.

Maybe when she waves her hand around before counting her fingers in a stern response to their claim that she might have just drank too much that: "I was standing in the elevator and all of the sudden I got dizzy. Everything is spinning around. I only had 4 beers. (counts her fingers) 1,2,3 and 4. Did you guys put something in my drink?"

 

[margarita25]

Respectfully snipped
LE mentioned the cell phone once that I have seen during the press conference on Feb 6th:

During the press conference, Teague was asked about Lam's cell phone.

"I don't want to talk about the cell phone, right now, very much, we have some of her property and she was in regular contact with her parents until 6 days ago," said Teague.
source: http://www.examiner.com/article/elisa-lam-canadian-tourist-missing-los-angeles
[/url]

There it is dotr...I'm so sorry I left you hanging about trying to find this quote!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Perhaps she was returning to her room from a bar when she was seen in the lobby (that late I don't think she's getting coffee). If the bar was close enough to the hotel building, she might of had some lasting sobriety before feeling like she had been drugged. In he video she almost walks in the elevator at first as if she is trying to hide how "drunk" she was. Trying to walk as straight as possible in the elevator. Maybe the drugs were starting to kick in while she was in elevator and maybe the suspect/s who drugged her talked her into letting them into the hotel to hang with her.

Maybe her odd behavior in the video is her realizing that she is getting increasingly more "drunk" or drugged feeling. Perhaps the suspects and her were hanging out and she ventured downstairs to tell front desk she wasnt feeling right. Maybe she realizes in the elevator that something is very wrong and when she exits when talking to unknown person/people (probably suspects who followed her in from bar), the suspects are reassuring her that she's ok and probably just drank too much.

Maybe when she waves her hand around before counting her fingers in a stern response to their claim that she might have just drank too much that: "I was standing in the elevator and all of the sudden I got dizzy. Everything is spinning around. I only had 4 beers. (counts her fingers) 1,2,3 and 4. Did you guys put something in my drink?"

. If the bar was close enough to the hotel building, she might of had some lasting sobriety before feeling like she had been drugged. Also since she had a prescript for adderrall lamictil and an antidepressant, we know her metabolism would have not felt the immediate affects of a CNS depressant date rape drug. Adderall (upper) and roofie ( downer) can cause cardiac arrest. People of Asian decent do not metabolize alcohol poisons as easily as other genetic groups. Maybe the suspects only intended to rape her while she was incapacitated, but didn't expect she would die bc of the drugging. They put her body in the water tank in a panic. This is me only theory as to an "accidental homicide". Of course, I think it has more to do with some seedy slime balls trying to frame Morbid.

Also, if Elisa took her medication and even an aspirin before she drank, her body would have first metabolized her medication and then the Rufie laced alcohol. If her alcohol was rufied, it may have taken her considerably longer to feel the effects than a person with a cleared out metabolic system sans an upper like adderall before drinking.

 

[Peace777]

Oh they will find what type of drug she had taken or been given I'm sure but not sure how long alcohol would stay in her system tho as it was quite awhile before she was found :what: http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/forensic-toxicology.html

 

[Conductor71]

Also, if Elisa took her medication and even an aspirin before she drank, her body would have first metabolized her medication and then the Rufie laced alcohol. If her alcohol was rufied, it may have taken her considerably longer to feel the effects than a person with a cleared out metabolic system sans an upper like adderall before drinking.

Oh they will find what type of drug she had taken or been given I'm sure but not sure how long alcohol would stay in her system tho as it was quite awhile before she was found :what: http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/forensic-toxicology.html

Hmmm...anything is possible at this point, but when looking at the role of drugs and alcohol I think we need to keep in mind that...

If we believe that Tumblr account is by EL:

* EL did not drink and was not shy about saying what she thought of it.

* We cannot assume that EL had any of that med cocktail in her when she died. The pill posting was 10 months ago and she credited one of the SSIRs as working for her - can't recall which one. It might be safe to assume she was at least still taking that one.

I honestly don't see her as a party girl, but I can see her being drugged. I just read a heartfelt account from a former customer of her family's restaurant who knew EL when she was a young girl and he says that the video is so uncharacteristic of her that after watching it he was physically ill and cannot sleep over it. Pretty extreme reaction but not so if knowing that she was drugged with the intention of having that video circulated.

Everything about this case is so weird. The involvement of Interpol on day one plus subsequent media blackout says to me international "serial murder" alert. Thousands go missing across borders every year, but how often does Interpol initiate a missing persons case directly with a local police department right away before cause of death is determined? In fact, LAPD's Teague said that Interpol's involvement means the case goes straight to their homicide investigators. This is the only scenario making sense to me right now.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Oh they will find what type of drug she had taken or been given I'm sure but not sure how long alcohol would stay in her system tho as it was quite awhile before she was found :what: http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/forensic-toxicology.html

Actually, the tank she was in was probably filled with chlorine, which would completely compromise any toxicology sample even after one week. On average, a decomposing body after a week already has much of its skin lost and bone begins to protrude. Add chlorine to this equation and the decomposition would move exponentially quicker (I've seen tests done on animal carcasses exposed to water in forensics studies). Any DNA evidence of rape would most likely be lost to the decomposition also.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Hmmm...anything is possible at this point, but when looking at the role of drugs and alcohol I think we need to keep in mind that...

If we believe that Tumblr account is by EL:

* EL did not drink and was not shy about saying what she thought of it.

* We cannot assume that EL had any of that med cocktail in her when she died. The pill posting was 10 months ago and she credited one of the SSIRs as working for her - can't recall which one. It might be safe to assume she was at least still taking that one.

I honestly don't see her as a party girl, but I can see her being drugged. I just read a heartfelt account from a former customer of her family's restaurant who knew EL when she was a young girl and he says that the video is so uncharacteristic of her that after watching it he was physically ill and cannot sleep over it. Pretty extreme reaction but not so if knowing that she was drugged with the intention of having that video circulated.

Everything about this case is so weird. The involvement of Interpol on day one plus subsequent media blackout says to me international "serial murder" alert. Thousands go missing across borders every year, but how often does Interpol initiate a missing persons case directly with a local police department right away before cause of death is determined? In fact, LAPD's Teague said that Interpol's involvement means the case goes straight to their homicide investigators. This is the only scenario making sense to me right now.

She said she didn't drink bc she had a past issue with it and even mentioned relapsing in her blog (not her tumblr). Perhaps she wrote often about not drinking to help her family to not worry that she had relapsed. I don't think she was out at midnight for a chocolate milk ... All I'm saying.

I'm bipolar and have been on celexa and adderall and need them both. Once you are on adderall for being bipolar you essentially need it. Unfortunately the adderall was given to me at 15 and by 18 I tried to stop using it during college (even though prescribed) and failed out. Every time I get back on my bipolar meds (add and celexa) I am stabilized. Typically once a psychiatric patient finds the meds that are working for them, they stick to them.